70 x 11ft Widebeam

[aharg]

Hello All

 

I have been reading with fascination all the useful advice to be found hear so thought I would put my toe in the water with a question or two?

My partner and I are thinking of selling our house with its (unaffordable mortgage) to buy a 70 ft wide beam boat as a (lined sailaway) to live aboard with our two children. I am very practical and handy with building so not daunted by the finishing work and I can get help with this.

 

We have been talking to various wide beam builders and wondered if anyone has experience of Viking Narrowboats as a builder, we have visited their newbuild boat moored in Staines a couple of times and been very impressed with the overall build quality.

 

Another question I have in mind is how far can you travel on the canal network with a boat this long? I know the width restrictions but it’s the length I can’t seem to find any info on?

 

Any advice would be most appreciated

 

thanks

 

Andrew

[saltysplash]

Loads of info for you re wide boats and waterway access on this link

 

http://www.barging.co.uk/index.htm

[twbm]

The width is the main issue - there are miles and miles of narrow canals at 6'10 beam by 70 foor length, but you will be restricted to the wide canals i.e. 14 foot beam adjoining the Thames. You'd need either a narrow boat up to about 57 feet to go anywhere, or consider a full broad beam for a bigger house that's no more restricted that the 11 foot wide one if funds permit.

 

http://www.jim-shead.com/waterways/mwp.php?wpage=Inland-Waterways-of-England.htm

[aharg]

Thanks so much for the speedy replys

I had understood a wide beam couldnt go up north for example because of the narrow sections. I wonder if a boat of these dimensions be ok getting to Bristol on the Kennet and Avon since we plan to be going this way alot? I was specifically worried that the 70ft in some locks might be a problem? Also I had heard somewhere there were plans to widen a section of canal to allow widebeams to cross from north to south?

 

thanks again

 

Andrew

[magpie patrick]

If you are basing yourself on waterways connected to the Thames, (GU, Lee and Stort, K and A etc) then so long as the length doesn't go OVER 70 feet you won't find any restrictions. The Kennet and Avon locks are a bare 70 feet long, longer narrow boats get through by going in the lock diagonally, a luxury you don't have. If you get to Bristol and brave the Severn Estuary, you have the Severn and Stratford Avon as well

 

If you are cruising up north, 70 feet combined with wide beam is giving you the worst of both worlds

 

Thanks so much for the speedy replys

I had understood a wide beam couldnt go up north for example because of the narrow sections. I wonder if a boat of these dimensions be ok getting to Bristol on the Kennet and Avon since we plan to be going this way alot? I was specifically worried that the 70ft in some locks might be a problem? Also I had heard somewhere there were plans to widen a section of canal to allow widebeams to cross from north to south?

 

thanks again

 

Andrew

 

There are plans to provide a wide beam north south link, but your Children will be keeping you in your dotage before they come to fruition! I wouldn't be swayed by them.

[WJM]

70' was one of the default lengths many of the canals were built to - but it is probably wise to have your boat built slightly shorter, 68' or 69' to allow for unexpected problems.

 

14' is also a bit tight. The Stort for example is 13'6". I have seen 15' boats become wedged on the very 'modern' Grand Union mainline because there was a coconut in the lock too! Better to build slightly under to avoid problems with locks that have shrunk through movement.

[Ex- Member]

If you are basing yourself on waterways connected to the Thames, (GU, Lee and Stort, K and A etc) then so long as the length doesn't go OVER 70 feet you won't find any restrictions. The Kennet and Avon locks are a bare 70 feet long, longer narrow boats get through by going in the lock diagonally, a luxury you don't have. If you get to Bristol and brave the Severn Estuary, you have the Severn and Stratford Avon as well

 

If you are cruising up north, 70 feet combined with wide beam is giving you the worst of both worlds

 

 

 

There are plans to provide a wide beam north south link, but your Children will be keeping you in your dotage before they come to fruition! I wouldn't be swayed by them.

 

 

 

I wonder if a boat of these dimensions be ok getting to Bristol on the Kennet

and Avon since we plan to be going this way alot? I was specifically worried

that the 70ft in some locks might be a problem?

 

 

 

Shouldn't be a problem An aquaintance had a 70f x 12 f and could travell from Bristol docks to the bottom of Cean Locks Devises, I'm pretty sure it will go up the Caen flight too but not 100% We've done the same trip from Keynsham to Devises and it's no hassle at all in our 60 x 10/6

 

 

70 f/t though in some locks would be pretty tight I reckon, others will know better though.

[mrsmelly]

Hello All

 

I have been reading with fascination all the useful advice to be found hear so thought I would put my toe in the water with a question or two?

My partner and I are thinking of selling our house with its (unaffordable mortgage) to buy a 70 ft wide beam boat as a (lined sailaway) to live aboard with our two children. I am very practical and handy with building so not daunted by the finishing work and I can get help with this.

 

We have been talking to various wide beam builders and wondered if anyone has experience of Viking Narrowboats as a builder, we have visited their newbuild boat moored in Staines a couple of times and been very impressed with the overall build quality.

 

Another question I have in mind is how far can you travel on the canal network with a boat this long? I know the width restrictions but it’s the length I can’t seem to find any info on?

 

Any advice would be most appreciated

 

thanks

 

Andrew

 

The internal space would be massive but size very restrictive. If you were on the fab Huge yorkshire canals then it would be a dinky toy on such as the Aire and calder were it would fit in one small corner of a lock but it wouldnt go further than leeds.

It would be good on the Trent also. As for the kennet and Avon firstly remember you cannot moor anywhere due to the 4 billion continuous moorers but it would be a chore on that canal at such a size.

I beleieve 60 foot would be still big enough and would give you much better cruising options and that of course also means saleability if you get fed up of the life.

[NigelJ]

Loads of boaters will no doubt add - more accurately - to my comment but, basically, you can't do the Yorkshire canals and rivers in 70ft (mine's 70ft narrowboat). That means Leeds & Liverpool Canal east of Wigan, Aire & Calder, Huddersfield Broad and various links between Yorks and Loncolnshire. (I'll be corrected if I'm wrong). Or north up the Leeds & Liverpool to the Lancaster Canal. It's because the locks, though wide, are all no more than 60ft long.

 

I think you'll find length (ie lock) restrictions on the BW Waterscape website, though it's a nightmare of a site to 'navigate' and I hate ever having to go to it for information.

 

No doubt you already know there is no link between the wide canals (ie wide locks) of the north (the above-mentioned + Bridgewater and Rochdale canals) and those in the Midlands and South. Basically, you have to choose whether to be based north of Preston Brook tunnel (Trent & Mersey/Bridgewater) or south of Birmingham/Leicester, although the 70ft length will leave you far fewer fewer cruising options in the north than in the south, which seems to be where you are based anyway.

 

Personally, I regret not being able to do the Leeds & Liverpool into Yorkshire but I do like the extra living space.

 

All the best with it.

Hello All

 

I have been reading with fascination all the useful advice to be found hear so thought I would put my toe in the water with a question or two?

My partner and I are thinking of selling our house with its (unaffordable mortgage) to buy a 70 ft wide beam boat as a (lined sailaway) to live aboard with our two children. I am very practical and handy with building so not daunted by the finishing work and I can get help with this.

 

We have been talking to various wide beam builders and wondered if anyone has experience of Viking Narrowboats as a builder, we have visited their newbuild boat moored in Staines a couple of times and been very impressed with the overall build quality.

 

Another question I have in mind is how far can you travel on the canal network with a boat this long? I know the width restrictions but it's the length I can't seem to find any info on?

 

Any advice would be most appreciated

 

thanks

 

Andrew

Edited October 1, 2012 by Theo

[magpie patrick]

Nigel, that's roughly right. For peace of mind I'd specify 68 feet I think, the K and A as said is a bare 70 feet and builders are not known for accuracy to the inch. If it turns out to be 70 feet 6 inches you won't get the bottom gates open on at least one lock at Devizes (admission, I actually typed Combe Hay first time! Oh Dear Patrick )

 

Taking each system

 

Severn/Avon length won't affect you but such a boat will feel very big when you get to Stratford

 

K and A/Thames/GU/Lee and Stort/Medway

 

It would be sensible to be just shy of 70 feet for the K and A, and the beam may make you unpopular north of Tring

 

Anglian Rivers: May not get round Briggate Bend at Whittlesea with that beam, and too wide for some locks on the Ouse

 

Northern waters: too long for L and L between Wigan and Leeds, SSYN upstream of Rotherham, Calder and Hebble and Huddersfield Broad Canals, and the Rufford Branch of the L and L, completely fragmenting the cruising area

[mrsmelly]

Nigel, that's roughly right. For peace of mind I'd specify 68 feet I think, the K and A as said is a bare 70 feet and builders are not known for accuracy to the inch. If it turns out to be 70 feet 6 inches you won't get the bottom gates open on at least one lock at Devizes (admission, I actually typed Combe Hay first time! Oh Dear Patrick )

 

Taking each system

 

Severn/Avon length won't affect you but such a boat will feel very big when you get to Stratford

 

K and A/Thames/GU/Lee and Stort/Medway

 

It would be sensible to be just shy of 70 feet for the K and A, and the beam may make you unpopular north of Tring

 

Anglian Rivers: May not get round Briggate Bend at Whittlesea with that beam, and too wide for some locks on the Ouse

 

Northern waters: too long for L and L between Wigan and Leeds, SSYN upstream of Rotherham, Calder and Hebble and Huddersfield Broad Canals, and the Rufford Branch of the L and L, completely fragmenting the cruising area

 

True for those little bits but enter up the trent and there are many many miles of canals accessed thro Goole ocean lock The Aire and calder to Leeds and wakefield, The Selby canal the ouse up to York. I am at present on the Aire and calder on my 70 foot narrowboat which looks big on a narrow canal but here some of the boats have fenders bigger than my entire boat I passed the Humber Princess yesterday and she is just one of a few up here her dimensions are 198 feet by 20 feet and bloody heavy but great to see we still have real working boats left.

[aharg]

Thanks all for all your very detailed and thought provoking answers. Oveall i am encouraged and will take the advice and specify 68 feet since the K & A is something we really want to go up and down quite regularly having friends and family etc at either end and places in between!

Its great to know there is such a friendly, thriving and knowledgeable community of boaters out there willing to help new people as they 'launch' themselves into a whole new lifestyle!

 

Andrew

[JDR]

70' (or even 68') widebeam is a whole lot of boat to control. Not a problem on the Thames but I would suggest parts of the K&A are narrow and shallow, manouevering past moored boats, around blind bends on windy days could be interesting. The lock sizes are not uniform either, some locks are a tight fit for two nominally 6'10 boats.

 

Is there any way you could get an opportunity to try out a boat that size before committing yourself?

Edited July 12, 2011 by JDR

[GUMPY]

Thanks all for all your very detailed and thought provoking answers. Overall i am encouraged and will take the advice and specify 68 feet since the K & A is something we really want to go up and down quite regularly having friends and family etc at either end and places in between!

 

Just to throw in another can of worms google the letters TRIWV

There are a whole bunch of European regulations that are in force for boats over 20m (65ft)

At present GB has a derogation that means we can ignore those rules but that is not for ever and look what happened to the red diesel derogation.

OH, and TRIWV can be applied retrospectively

[Biggles]

Good luck with fitting out a lined sailaway with 2 kids on board. I can tell you from experience that it takes a lot more time that you ever guess and I am not living on board.

 

Have a look at the Aqualine wide beam lay outs for some ideas.

 

I did consider Viking and was reasonably impressed with the shell but the lined sailaway I saw wasn't that great, that was a while ago though. It just looked rushed. I did have reservations about their trading but this was just me, they seem to deliver. Search this forum there are a few threads about them.

[blackrose]

Hello All

 

I have been reading with fascination all the useful advice to be found hear so thought I would put my toe in the water with a question or two?

My partner and I are thinking of selling our house with its (unaffordable mortgage) to buy a 70 ft wide beam boat as a (lined sailaway) to live aboard with our two children. I am very practical and handy with building so not daunted by the finishing work and I can get help with this.

 

We have been talking to various wide beam builders and wondered if anyone has experience of Viking Narrowboats as a builder, we have visited their newbuild boat moored in Staines a couple of times and been very impressed with the overall build quality.

 

Another question I have in mind is how far can you travel on the canal network with a boat this long? I know the width restrictions but it’s the length I can’t seem to find any info on?

 

Any advice would be most appreciated

 

thanks

 

Andrew

 

Where is their boat moored in Staines exactly?

 

I looked at a Viking widebeam at Crick a couple of years ago and to be honest I wasn't that impressed with the build quality - it was the wavy cabin sides I didn't like. However, apart from that they are good value.

 

You say you want to live aboard with your partner and children - have you found a mooring already? Just wondering what you intend to do about the practicalities of family life - schools, etc?

 

70' (or even 68') widebeam is a whole lot of boat to control. Not a problem on the Thames but I would suggest parts of the K&A are narrow and shallow, manouevering past moored boats, around blind bends on windy days could be interesting. The lock sizes are not uniform either, some locks are a tight fit for two nominally 6'10 boats.

 

Is there any way you could get an opportunity to try out a boat that size before committing yourself?

 

I agree it is big. Personally I like the 57' x 12' dimensions of my boat as it's physically very easy to turn and there are plenty of places to turn it around. Also as I'm generally moving it single handed I think it's about the biggest boat I'd be happy handling on my own.

Edited July 17, 2011 by blackrose

[CJR]

70' (or even 68') widebeam is a whole lot of boat to control. Not a problem on the Thames but I would suggest parts of the K&A are narrow and shallow, manouevering past moored boats, around blind bends on windy days could be interesting. The lock sizes are not uniform either, some locks are a tight fit for two nominally 6'10 boats.

 

Is there any way you could get an opportunity to try out a boat that size before committing yourself?

 

We have never had a problem with this size - but then the Irish waterways are generally a bit bigger. However, the Shannon-Erne canal has a good few tight bends and blind bridges so we go VERY slow and sound the horn a lot! (We still had a couple of near misses in the past week when they could not hear our horn as their music was blaring so loud!) Bow thrusters also help out occasionally. The depth of water is never an issue, we regularly run along muddy bottoms and are still able to control the boat without too much problem in strong flowing rivers.

 

Just to throw in another can of worms google the letters TRIWV

There are a whole bunch of European regulations that are in force for boats over 20m (65ft)

At present GB has a derogation that means we can ignore those rules but that is not for ever and look what happened to the red diesel derogation.

OH, and TRIWV can be applied retrospectively

 

This really is a can of worms! We looked into this quite extensively before we bought as we nearly bought a dutch barge in Holland, but the TRIWV put us off. Basically, though I think there is nothing to worry about if it is a new boat - the regulations (if they ever come into being applied to the UK and Ireland) are really aimed at old boats which have little or no safety spec. I think it is being used to get rid of a lot of the unsafe old barges from European waterways.

 

Good luck in your search. We found that we had to make a choice over being able to fully cruise the entire irish system or have max. living space - we chose the latter and have not regretted it one bit. We are still able to get around 80% of the system!

[GUMPY]

This really is a can of worms! We looked into this quite extensively before we bought as we nearly bought a dutch barge in Holland, but the TRIWV put us off. Basically, though I think there is nothing to worry about if it is a new boat - the regulations (if they ever come into being applied to the UK and Ireland) are really aimed at old boats which have little or no safety spec. I think it is being used to get rid of a lot of the unsafe old barges from European waterways.

 

Actually no it covers ALL boats on the mainland over 20m new and old.

In fact old boats have a dispensation at present to allow them time to comply.

The DBA, of which I am a director, are actively involved and have done a lot of work on this.

 

Julian

[Pete Milne]

 

This really is a can of worms! We looked into this quite extensively before we bought as we nearly bought a dutch barge in Holland, but the TRIWV put us off. Basically, though I think there is nothing to worry about if it is a new boat - the regulations (if they ever come into being applied to the UK and Ireland) are really aimed at old boats which have little or no safety spec.

 

TRIWV is far simpler than most people think and forms a common safety standard across mainland Europe. See http://www.barges-srf.co.uk/2.htm for a simple explanation. To go on the Rhine, the more stringent Rhine regulations apply; these are complex but unnecessary for many boaters. It is very unlikely that the UK will ever adopt TRIWV as the nature of the UK inland waterways is very different to those on the mainland.

 

Pete

[Butterfly8]

Hello Andrew

 

Browsing through the forum and I wondered if you would be able to say a few words about how things are working out for you and the family?

 

House sold, we are moving into interim accommodation in a few days and will be ordering a new build widebeam in the next few weeks for delivery in February. We includes myself, teenage daughter and son and our dog, and this will be a new way of life for us.

 

Would also be very interested to know if you used Viking Canal Boats and how things worked out there?

[Lady Muck]

70' (or even 68') widebeam is a whole lot of boat to control. Not a problem on the Thames but I would suggest parts of the K&A are narrow and shallow, manouevering past moored boats, around blind bends on windy days could be interesting. The lock sizes are not uniform either, some locks are a tight fit for two nominally 6'10 boats.

 

Is there any way you could get an opportunity to try out a boat that size before committing yourself?

 

Even if the waterway is deep and wide enough, when you are out and about, it can be tricky to find enough space to moor a 70 foot boat in certain busy places. When you are considering a boat, big is not necessarily better. A clever fit-out is worth much more. I have a clever fit out in my 56 foot nb, meaning it feels like it has more space and storage than some boats that are 6 foot longer. I agree with other comments about resale as well, if you make the boat 70 foot, then many boaters on the Northern waterways (where widebeams are popular, would not be interested in buying your boat.

 

I also agree with comments about fitting out - never underestimate how long it will take, especially if you are working - my boat is an owner fitted out boat. It took the owner three years to fit her out (and he is a teacher so he had lots of holiday).

[koukouvagia]

... never underestimate how long it will take, especially if you are working - my boat is an owner fitted out boat. It took the owner three years to fit her out (and he is a teacher so he had lots of holiday).

 

I can't let that hoary old chestnut to go unchallenged . I was lucky to manage three weeks in the summer, a week at Easter and a week at Christmas. Forget about half terms – they were taken up with school trips or marking coursework. Add to all that at least a 60 hour week in term time and you'll appreciate why it took me five years to fit out the motor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lady Muck]

After I wrote that I thought, 'hmm wonder how long it will take a teacher to correct me?'

[Grace and Favour]

After I wrote that I thought, 'hmm wonder how long it will take a teacher to correct me?'

 

5/10 for effort, but must try harder

[alan_fincher]

After I wrote that I thought, 'hmm wonder how long it will take a teacher to correct me?'

At least you had the good sense not to try an answer that you thought was in Latin, simply because you had used an on-line translator!

 

That's when KK will really start correcting the error of your ways!