Narrowboats at sea

[the grinch]

 

I'd forgotten about that second lock above the sea lock. It's a while since I've walked the Chichester, and the canal doesn't reach Chichester from the harbour

Tone

 

correct but that wasn't what you said!

i grew up in fishbourne / chi / bognor and was on the team that removed poyntz bridge and built the new bridge at Hunston, i also cleared the towpath from chi to hunston so i know the canal intimately!!

[max campbell]

We know the OP is a little mad

 

Yeah, thanks for that, I love you too. The purpose of the original question was to mine the assembled wisdom to find out what features of a NB would need attention if I wanted to take one to sea, and to get peoples' experiences. Some posters, notable Roger (can't find the surname from where I am) addressed this really well. I tried to point out that I was already aware of others.

 

But some people out there seem to have minds narrower than their boats.

 

The conclusion I've come to is that with the right NB (powerful enough engine, etc etc) sufficient preparation, a good weather window and some trepidation it would be possible, but I may fall off the back, and a quartering sea would be, well, awkward at least.

 

A few posts have given food for thought, and for those I thank you. I know the Chi canal, and obviously this would not be a destination - I just pointed out its existence to the poster who asked where the hell Chichester was. The next question would be, where can I anchor for free in Chichester Harbour, but please don't answer that, 'cos I think I'll get a name for myself as a troll, with my first thread!!

[carlt]

The next question would be, where can I anchor for free in Chichester Harbour, but please don't answer that, 'cos I think I'll get a name for myself as a troll, with my first thread!!

You can't. All vessels have to pay at least harbour dues.

 

Apart from that there probably are free anchorages but you'd need to tap local knowledge for those.

 

Edited to add: I tell a lie...

There are three recognised anchorages within the area covered, East Head, Pilsey Island, and Chaldock Point. Anchor shapes and lights need to be displayed. Thornham Marina, Bosham Quay and some harbour authority moorings at Itchenor are other places where the yachtsman or motorboater can get moored up in this central part of Chichester Harbour. All these places are now described:

 

East Head Anchorage.

 

Anchor just to the north of East Head, to the east of the green conical buoy E. Head Spit, as shown on the chart. Can get crowded and has had sandy beach ashore. No facilities nearby. The anchorage is rather exposed, although has reasonable protection from the South West through to the East.

 

Pilsey Island Anchorage.

 

Again well marked on the chart just to the east of Pilsey Island in the Thorney Channel. Not so prone to overcrowding, but a bit exposed. No facilities in the immediate offing.

 

Chaldock Point Anchorage.

 

This Anchorage has already been described in the previous section and is well marked again on the charts. Not impossibly far from Itchenor, but not much in the way of facilities there either. (eg. shops, etc).

 

The following applies to all the anchorages:

 

Anchor ball and lights need to be displayed, and craft must not be left unattended for more than a short while. The authorities are liable to be round collecting harbour dues

Edited May 23, 2011 by carlt

[Sir Nibble]

With my experience off offshore sailing and narrowboating, what I would insist upon.

Every orifice and skin fitting plugged with the exeption of the exhaust.

Exhaust and inlet "schnorkeled" to be well clear of any incoming sea.

Lifejackets all round and "dead mans switch" for steerer.

Liferaft.

Jury rigged mast with radar reflector and masthead light.

VHF.

Properly calibrated compass (steel boat).

Fully secured deckboards.

Reinforcement to butress windows against being blown in.

The RNLI or royal navy, either, don't want to be fussy.

[Capt Ahab]

there was someone else that ended up on the beach, wrecked 1980's if i remember right,

several boats have crossed the channel not just chris / lawrence that have ventured to sea

tim spall aslo coasted his dutch barge round southern england (bbciplayer "all at sea")

 

 

you may not like this one!!!

 

Terrifying!

[blackrose]

Terrifying!

 

Terrifying for those on board I'm sure. The boat itself seemed to handle the waves pretty well.

[canaldrifter]

correct but that wasn't what you said!

 

 

True. I forgot about the CWF pedants' code

 

Tone

 

Terrifying for those on board I'm sure. The boat itself seemed to handle the waves pretty well.

 

Yes, I thought so too, but even that was a fair bit bigger than a narrowboat.

 

 

That video has featured here before, and I seem to remember that there was some sort of deadline they had to meet, that caused them, very foolishly, to venture out in what became a force 8!

 

Tone

[Tam & Di]

With my experience off offshore sailing and narrowboating, what I would insist upon.

Every orifice and skin fitting plugged with the exeption of the exhaust.

Exhaust and inlet "schnorkeled" to be well clear of any incoming sea.

Lifejackets all round and "dead mans switch" for steerer.

Liferaft.

Jury rigged mast with radar reflector and masthead light.

VHF.

Properly calibrated compass (steel boat).

Fully secured deckboards.

Reinforcement to butress windows against being blown in.

The RNLI or royal navy, either, don't want to be fussy.

 

I've also seen a narrow boat which was brought to France by low loader and dropped into Calais harbour and which then had its rudder bearings smashed by waves from a passing tug. Also one that broke the shaft coupling to the propellor as the prop raced when waves lifted the stern, and another which lost two of the bolts holding the engine down. I've not looked at the link in the previous post, but it is probably the one where a barge was towed in when the cooling water hoses split and the barge was rapidly sinking. Most modern narrow boats are not engineered to a standard that is designed for work at sea. An additional problem if you start with a secondhand inland craft - barge or narrow boat - is the likelihood of sediment in the fuel tanks being stirred up and blocking the fuel line. So in addition to the above you'd want to clean the tanks thoroughly, and if not possible then to do the sea passage with a separate drum of diesel to feed the engine. Maybe double Racor type filters in the line so the fuel supply can be switched from one to the other if necessary, but that does mean you have a crew person inside the steel coffin boat who can take care of things like that.

 

It can all be done, but there is considerable risk. Much reduced if you have the money to build one with all the safety aspects dealt with at that stage.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Tam & Di

[buccaneer]

I have a DVD from www.laurencehoggproductions.co.uk( he is a member on this forum)called Carry on up the lune.

In 1995 chris Coburn decided to visit the lancaster canal.This involved the River mersey,the Irish sea.Ribble Ribble,River Lune to Glasson dock.Returning via Glasson to the River Dee and Chester.At times the boat was 12 miles offshore.

He has DVD's of other journeys.

[Neil2]

One point no-one has raised is the lack of an auxiliary power unit on a narrowboat, and the difficulty of fitting one. If you are going to sea it's case of "what if...?" ie if your engine fails what are you going to do? You might find yourself in a mayday situation, but it's worth pointing out that engine failure in itself does not automatically put you in "grave and imminent danger" and calling for assistance could result in a hefty charge from whoever comes to you aid. (I belive the RNLI have started charging for this now??)

 

I've often thought it would be possible to design a boat that would be safe/practical for coastal passages and could cruise the narrow canals. It would probably look a bit like a scaled down submarine and would have similarly compromised internal space. (It's probably been done and never caught on.)

[carlt]

(I belive the RNLI have started charging for this now??)

 

No the haven't:

 

From their website:

 

Why doesn't the RNLI charge for rescuing people?

The RNLI would prefer that people call for help sooner rather than later: delaying calling for help could make the situation worse and endanger the lives of our volunteer crew. If there were a charge for rescue, some people might be reluctant and delay as long as possible. However, donations are always welcome

 

Most leisure boats only have one power source (apart from rag powered ones, of course).

 

Twin engined motor boats tend to be the exception, rather than the rule.

 

Personally, if I didn't have a twin engined sea boat, I'd have an auxiliary (or sails) but it is by no means common.

[blackrose]

Yes, I thought so too, but even that was a fair bit bigger than a narrowboat.

 

And I dare say the hull shape is a fair bit more seaworthy than a narrowboat too.

 

Mind you, can you imagine what the interior and contents of that barge looked like afterwards?

 

When I crossed from Brighton to Dieppe a few years ago in a friend's sailing boat we hit some big waves. I puked up several times over the side and on the side decks and later he was laying down on the floor inside (saying he was tired, but suffering from sea-sickness which he wouldn't admit). As the boat was bouncing around the 300 books and videos he'd bungeed onto bookshelves inside decided to come off the shelves and landed on top of him. It was hilarious. By the time we got to France the inside of his boat had been completely trashed.

Edited May 24, 2011 by blackrose

[Amber]

Hi,

I'd just like to say this.

I have done a lot of sailing in yachts & have had my nb for 3 summers. Between Easter & May bank holiday this year we took, with a pilot, my boat up the Severn Estuary from Portishead to Sharpness.

The wind was 14 knots according to the pilot. If it had been 15 kts he would not have gone.

The previous day, when we came out of Avonmouth & headed to Portishead, I don't know what the wind strength was but I would say it was more that 14 kts. At that point we did not have a pilot.

I looked at the sea & thought...Oh, this isn't very rough...That was the yachts person talking. When I was actually steering the nb it was quite a different story. She didn't like it. She cockscrewed etc etc. And, I realised that they are NOT made for the sea.

Chichester Harbour is v nice & dries out a lot. Is it worth it.

As someone up north said to me once.

If you want to go to the coast. Take a Bus.

Cheers

Raga

[Tony@Brighton]

Hi,

 

I've crossed the Channel in unexpectedly poor conditions in an extremely well-equipped trawler yacht.

 

It was not just exciting, but terrifying.

 

With a deep, double-chine, stability was excellent; with plenty of freeboard and very strong scantlings there was no risk of the boat foundering.

 

I cannot imagine how a narrowboat could be made sufficiently seaworthy: to consider a voyage in anything less would by definition by foolhardy.

 

T o n y

[Laurence Hogg]

Anyone seriously considering going out to sea in a narrowboat needs to be in secure accomodation, full stop.

 

There is no part of a narrowboat that has anything to do with sea going craft, they are not even happy on small rivers. Thats like driving a tractor on a motorway, no chance.

 

What a load of rubbish.

So the stern gear used by the Grand Union was the same as trawlers, the same company designed the "Royalty" class and the Vee bottom Yarwoods built boats for estuary and tidal river use. I have done over a 1000 miles at sea on Chris Coburn's "Progress" and we never had any issues providing suitable weather was available otherwise you dont go. A properly prepared narrowboat can go offshore and connect with other waterways in doing so, thats how we did the Norfolk Broads - all of them in a 70ft boat.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[mrsmelly]

Hi,

 

I've crossed the Channel in unexpectedly poor conditions in an extremely well-equipped trawler yacht.

 

It was not just exciting, but terrifying.

 

With a deep, double-chine, stability was excellent; with plenty of freeboard and very strong scantlings there was no risk of the boat foundering.

 

I cannot imagine how a narrowboat could be made sufficiently seaworthy: to consider a voyage in anything less would by definition by foolhardy.

 

T o n y

 

Hi

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head, many people have a view on these matters and have probably been to sea little or never. I used to race a 36ft nicholson across the channel years ago, a very seaworthy boat designed for the job but scary at times, I have also been on very powerfull warships in big seas, for instance 4 winter months in the arctic circle. Now whilst no one is suggesting this in a narrowboat nevertheless the sea can change amazingly fast from flat calm to horrendous. Chris Coburn and others have simply been very lucky taking a bathtub to sea. Yes they may well have done their homework re tides and weather but the weather cannot be trusted and a flat bottomed bath tub is no sea boat.

[canaldrifter]

Chris Coburn and others have simply been very lucky taking a bathtub to sea. Yes they may well have done their homework re tides and weather but the weather cannot be trusted and a flat bottomed bath tub is no sea boat.

 

I would suggest that weather forecasting for 24 hours ahead is very accurate in calm conditions. I also know that Chris Coburn is no fool, and does not rely on his luck when putting to sea.

 

It is amusing how the ex-sea-going here quickly point out how dangerous it is to venture forth in dodgy weather to far distant places as a reason not to go coastal over short distances in a narrowboat.

 

Of course it would be foolhardy and dangerous in unsettled weather. But in days of settled calm weather, with all safety precautions taken, local knowledge, charts, awareness of shipping and tides, swell and wind wave height, it would be no more dangerous than setting out in a small dinghy.

 

Tone (ex RN)

[mrsmelly]

I would suggest that weather forecasting for 24 hours ahead is very accurate in calm conditions. I also know that Chris Coburn is no fool, and does not rely on his luck when putting to sea.

 

It is amusing how the ex-sea-going here quickly point out how dangerous it is to venture forth in dodgy weather to far distant places as a reason not to go coastal over short distances in a narrowboat.

 

Of course it would be foolhardy and dangerous in unsettled weather. But in days of settled calm weather, with all safety precautions taken, local knowledge, charts, awareness of shipping and tides, swell and wind wave height, it would be no more dangerous than setting out in a small dinghy.

 

Tone (ex RN)

 

Hi Tone

 

I respect your view what were you in the Andrew an officer ? a greenie/stoker ? I was a dabtoe and have done much sailing and used 27 ft whalers at sea in several places and conditions and we will have to beg to differ, where you shore based

I have a well built narrowboat but even with mods it well never go coastal in my ownership, just as an after thought what do insurance companys think of coastal use ? do they put the premium up ? I dont know but I bet they do if people are truthfull and policies dont go up unless there are greater risks involved.

 

Cheers

 

Tim ( ex RN )

[Roger Gunkel]

There has been a lot talked about the wisdom of taking a narrowboat to sea, however, putting aside any specially designed and constructed sea going narrow beamed boats, a leisure narrowboat is not suitable for sea work!! As I said before, anything that floats can be taken to sea but that doesn't make it suitable.

 

What needs to be remembered is that Laurence Hogg, Chris Coburn etc, are expedient people who made very careful preparations, had suitable safety equipment and contingency plans in the event of the unexpected. They decided to stretch the normal boundaries of narrowboating in a carefully planned way, which was not always without it's setbacks.

 

The danger comes when inexperienced boaters or those with little understanding of the dangers, see the exploits of boats like 'Progress' as evidence of the safety of a narrrowboat at sea, buy a road map and head blithely offshore. Even suitable seagoing boats are a danger to those who are reckless or unwilling to listen and learn. Every year we see reports highlighting the sheer ignorance and stupidity of people who think that any boat is suitable for any waters.

 

I applaud those who tackle new adventures with wisdom and care, but let's not underestimate the potential dangers.

 

Roger

[canaldrifter]

Hi Tone

 

I respect your view what were you in the Andrew an officer ? a greenie/stoker ? I was a dabtoe and have done much sailing and used 27 ft whalers at sea in several places and conditions and we will have to beg to differ, where you shore based

I have a well built narrowboat but even with mods it well never go coastal in my ownership, just as an after thought what do insurance companys think of coastal use ? do they put the premium up ? I dont know but I bet they do if people are truthfull and policies dont go up unless there are greater risks involved.

 

Cheers

 

Tim ( ex RN )

 

My insurance covers me for 'Inland non-tidal waters of the UK extended to include tidal access', which is a pretty broad church. (Nautical Insurance Services Ltd).

 

I joined as a Ganges boy, qualified as a coxswain, changed trades and ended up being the only RN Aircraft Artificer First Class with a coxswains badge, sometimes called upon to skipper small boats, whalers, cutters, motor-cutters and admirals barges and occasionally steer the Victorious when not playing with the SAR chopper.

 

The fish-heads used to hate me.

 

All good fun.

 

If you are of a nervous disposition, look away now:

 

 

Tone

[mrsmelly]

My insurance covers me for 'Inland non-tidal waters of the UK extended to include tidal access', which is a pretty broad church. (Nautical Insurance Services Ltd).

 

I joined as a Ganges boy, qualified as a coxswain, changed trades and ended up being the only RN Aircraft Artificer First Class with a coxswains badge, sometimes called upon to skipper small boats, whalers, cutters, motor-cutters and admirals barges and occasionally steer the Victorious when not playing with the SAR chopper.

 

The fish-heads used to hate me.

 

All good fun.

 

If you are of a nervous disposition, look away now:

 

 

Tone

 

Blimey Tone

 

Didnt know there was any one still alive that old... I am far too young for such things I joined at age 18 when Ganges was in its last year of use. Why did fishheads hate you, we needed Tiffs for the joke factor !!! The victorious a proper ship non left remotely that size now. You must have been pompey based ?

Must have a proper banter one day, Ive steered some serious stuff myself, had a swop with a yank on the Nimitz in about 75 bloody ginormous also had a short spell on a boat An old diesel " O " class now they are scarey.......

I bow to your greater knowledge tho, at least we know what waves realy look like.

[canaldrifter]

 

I bow to your greater knowledge tho,

 

No.... don't do that. Just buy me a pint sometime.

 

at least we know what waves realy look like.

 

I once had a Super 8 film (now lost) that I took looking along the Vic's flight deck in a Force 9 in the Bay of Biscay in 1966. The cats were rising and falling 60 feet, and the greenbacks were breaking over the bow, and soaking the flight deck right back to the rounddown.

 

The fishheads mess was the worst place to be in the world, because although the Vic's fo'c'sle went up like an express lift, it came down with a rapid lateral shudder that turned even the hardest dabtoe into a rainbow yawner.

 

Now.... even I wouldn't go narrowboating in that!

 

Tone

 

PS All fishheads hated airey faires on sight. One that became a Fleet Air Arm chiefy and still skippered boats was a Judas..... until we were off Penang on a make and mend during an exercise with the Yank fleet and we were landing parties by boat for a banyan on a quiet sandy beech, when suddenly, strangely, I became quite popular for a day as an available helmsman. Even scored a few tots.

[mrsmelly]

No.... don't do that. Just buy me a pint sometime.

 

 

 

I once had a Super 8 film (now lost) that I took looking along the Vic's flight deck in a Force 9 in the Bay of Biscay in 1966. The cats were rising and falling 60 feet, and the greenbacks were breaking over the bow, and soaking the flight deck right back to the rounddown.

 

The fishheads mess was the worst place to be in the world, because although the Vic's fo'c'sle went up like an express lift, it came down with a rapid lateral shudder that turned even the hardest dabtoe into a rainbow yawner.

 

Now.... even I wouldn't go narrowboating in that!

 

Tone

 

PS All fishheads hated airey faires on sight. One that became a Fleet Air Arm chiefy and still skippered boats was a Judas..... until we were off Penang on a make and mend during an exercise with the Yank fleet and we were landing parties by boat for a banyan on a quiet sandy beech, when suddenly, strangely, I became quite popular for a day as an available helmsman. Even scored a few tots.

Great stuff !!

 

I used to like roughers because I was a spawny git and didnt suffer the dreaded sickness so there were never any queues at scran time, tho if you remember when it was really bouncy the straps holding the tables down used to shear and you and said meal would go across the deck and up the bulkheads

I remember once being on 1 deck below the quarter deck north of Iceland in a 10/11 when she dropped so quickly at the stern I and a couple of oppos actualy hit the deckhead !!

Aye give up the bloody lamps are swinging in mi narrowboat.

Edited May 25, 2011 by mrsmelly

[Proper Job]

Don't you worry mate.

 

I'll keep you safe going round Trent Falls

 

[mrsmelly]

Don't you worry mate.

 

I'll keep you safe going round Trent Falls

 

Thats precisely what i am worried about Bye the way am at Nottingham now taking a steady stroll up to Cromwell over the next few days ready for the off!!