Free Loaders ?

[mayalld]

You will be aware of course, that BW's interpretation of its powers to limit mooorings anywhere to fewer than 14 days is cirrently under challenge after NABO took legal advice and a test case was begun?

 

I am aware that NABO took legal advice.

 

I think that NABO's lawyers told them what they wanted to hear

[Joshua]

My sympathies to the OP - only joined the forum 5 days ago and look what they've started!

 

In answer to the OP, if you are intending to travel round all/a large proportion of the waterways network (as we are doing) and will be generally moving from one area to another (rather than staying within a limited area) then you are genuinely continuously cruising. As long as you don't over-stay in designated visitor moorings or stay any longer than 14 days on the towpath where no time is specified then you are well within the rules.

 

Most of all - ENJOY YOURSELF - you won't regret it!

 

If Forums had a section for members to officially declare themselves in hiding thats where I would be, in the absence of which;

 

I get the impression, that as Continues Cruisers, we are going to have to be especially vigilant to avoid the risk of being tarred with the free-loader brush.

 

To avoid any misunderstanding, we decided to become Continues Cruisers because for us ( and I stress that this is a very personal opinion and in no way a judgement on anyone elses life style ) being moored in one place was not much better than parking the boat in the middle of a field.

 

We want to explore the corners of the UK and get up close to the industrial heritage of its canal system and after a 32 year wait, we now have the chance to do it.

 

As someone who finds most popular culture difficult to swallow, I have had a lifetime of experience having to keep a low profile, its a bit disappointing that I may still have to go on doing so, but Im a pragmatist if nothing else.

 

I found the RBOA Web Site article very useful, I am sorry if I gave a contrary impression to anyone, however, the forum comments leave me much better informed, thank you.

 

Joshua

Edited January 12, 2011 by Joshua

[mayalld]

If Forums had a section for members to officially declare themselves in hiding that’s where I would be, in the absence of which;

 

I get the impression, that as Continues Cruisers, we are going to have to be especially vigilant to avoid the risk of being tarred with the ‘free-loader’ brush.

 

To avoid any misunderstanding, we decided to become Continues Cruisers because for us ( and I stress that this is a very personal opinion and in no way a judgement on anyone else’s life style ) being moored in one place was not much better than parking the boat in the middle of a field.

 

We want to explore the corners of the UK and get up close to the industrial heritage of its canal system and after a 32 year wait, we now have the chance to do it.

 

As someone who finds most popular culture difficult to swallow, I have had a lifetime of experience having to keep a ‘low profile’, it’s a bit disappointing that I may still have to go on doing so, but I’m a pragmatist if nothing else.

 

I found the RBOA Web Site article very useful, I am sorry if I gave a contrary impression to anyone, however, the forum comments leave me much better informed, thank you.

 

Joshua

 

All that you will have to do is continuously cruise the system, never remaining in the same town or village for more than 14 days.

 

Continuous cruisers are not vilified for continuously cruising. Unfortunately, a rather significant portion of those who claim to be continuous cruisers don't actually do so.

[RLWP]

Joshua, I think you've got the wrong message somehow. I meet people from time to time who are doing exactly what you want to do, and I have nothing but admiration for you. Actually setting out to move around the system is a wonderful adventure and not easy to do.

 

What you are reading about are indeed "free-loaders". People who declare to BW that they will be journeying around the system and then don't. Instead they either shuffle up and down a short stretch or just plain stay put.

 

It's usually very clear who is in which group when you meet someone.

 

Go adventuring and declare yourself to anyone as a continuous cruiser with pride. Your anecdotes will easily identify you as a true adventurer

 

Richard

[Albion]

Joshua, I think you've got the wrong message somehow. I meet people from time to time who are doing exactly what you want to do, and I have nothing but admiration for you. Actually setting out to move around the system is a wonderful adventure and not easy to do.

 

What you are reading about are indeed "free-loaders". People who declare to BW that they will be journeying around the system and then don't. Instead they either shuffle up and down a short stretch or just plain stay put.

 

It's usually very clear who is in which group when you meet someone.

 

Go adventuring and declare yourself to anyone as a continuous cruiser with pride. Your anecdotes will easily identify you as a true adventurer

 

Richard

 

Yes, I agree entirely. Genuine CCers are just using their boat to the full and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I have several friends who do just that.

Continuous moorers and 100 yard bridge hoppers are not CCers, even if they pretend to be so, and are not complying with the spirit of the regulation, even if some argue that they are complying with the legal interpretation of the regulation.

Those that moor on water points or lock landings are just selfish and don't give a damn about others.

Roger

[Scooby]

I think we need a NAME AND SHAME TOPIC...

 

We could take photo's of overstayers boats and post them with pictures on the boards..

[Alan de Enfield]

All that you will have to do is continuously cruise the system, never remaining in the same town or village for more than 14 days.

 

 

I seem to remember reading somewhere the definition is to not stay within the same "Parish" for more than th 14 days. (and as an indication a distance of 15 miles was given as a typical Parish size) - am I dreaming it ?

[carlt]

I seem to remember reading somewhere the definition is to not stay within the same "Parish" for more than th 14 days. (and as an indication a distance of 15 miles was given as a typical Parish size) - am I dreaming it ?

No, that was some years ago.

 

BW themselves cannot decide on a correct interpretation, of the law so they are constantly changing it.

 

The wording of the Act has not changed, since 1995 so it seems strange that BW change how they see it, at least annually, calling into question their actual ability to interpret it, at all.

[Guest]

I think we need a NAME AND SHAME TOPIC...

 

We could take photo's of overstayers boats and post them with pictures on the boards..

 

Well I've got one a boat moored and left on a water point -

 

 

So may be allowed to name and shame BW as a starter for 10.

Edited January 12, 2011 by MJG

[Albion]

Well I've got one a boat moored and left on a water point -

 

 

So may be allowed to name and shame BW as a starter for 10.

Yes, sadly that is an all too common occurence. It is the 'Don't do as we do, .......' syndrome.

Roger

[Chertsey]

Because you wont be paying for a mooring.

And of course you won't be getting the advantages of a mooring. You will be getting what you pay for, just like everyone else.

[mayalld]

I seem to remember reading somewhere the definition is to not stay within the same "Parish" for more than th 14 days. (and as an indication a distance of 15 miles was given as a typical Parish size) - am I dreaming it ?

 

That was the old definition, and BW got legal advice to say that they might be acting in excess of their powers.

 

The Act is silent as to what is required. merely requiring that "the board is satisfied"

[NoFixedAbode]

My sympathies to the OP - only joined the forum 5 days ago and look what they've started!

 

In answer to the OP, if you are intending to travel round all/a large proportion of the waterways network (as we are doing) and will be generally moving from one area to another (rather than staying within a limited area) then you are genuinely continuously cruising. As long as you don't over-stay in designated visitor moorings or stay any longer than 14 days on the towpath where no time is specified then you are well within the rules.

 

Most of all - ENJOY YOURSELF - you won't regret it!

 

I agree entirely.

 

I recently found this passage in the book "127 hours between a rock and a hard place" by Aron Ralston, it was written in a letter by one of his friends and I thought this an apropriate place to repeat it.

 

"So many people live within unhappy circumstances and yet will not take the initiative to change their situation because they are conditioned to a life of security, conformity, and conservatism, all of which may appear to give one peace of mind, but in reality nothing is more damaging to the adventurous spirit within a man than a secure future. The very basic core of a mans living spirit is his passion for adventure. The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun."

 

I would add to this that those who choose to continue to suffer these unhappy circumstances are the self-same people then spend their entire existence criticising and complaining about those of us who have taken the initiative to get out.

[Sir Nibble]

It seems to me that the dispute is over the "must satisfy the board" bit. BW have stated in their guidance what they will be satisfied with but some declare that they have no right to insist on more than "never staying in one place more than 14 days" which is in the act, "satisfy the board" is also in the act but shouted down as not at all what I/we want it to be. I have considerable sympathy with people living on their boats shuttling up and down the same 10 mile stretch, a little less with those shuttling along a 5 mile stretch, and little or non when it becomes a mile or less but I do feel that some provision should be made for liveaboards doing their best. There are others who for instance in one case of a boat in the same place for a month moved only when the stench of their refuse and excrement coating the side of the enbankment became unbearable. Chris Pink who makes great efforts on behalf of the once every 14 day cruisers has witnessed one such emptying their sh1t into the canal, his sense of betrayal must have been considerable. Probably the only actual "freeloaders" are those who use the boat for high days and holidays only but declare themselves CCing and simply claim a bit of towpath as their own and show up every few weeks to take a recreational cruise and then return to the same spot. Often they can be recognised by the "gone for water" sign in the cockpit used to reserve "their" mooring or even by the name of the boat painted onto piling.

I really have no idea of the details but believe there is now a case before the courts which should at last rule on the issue and although not in a court enabled to set precedent (is that what is known as a court of record?)will leave the losing side to either admit they're wrong or appeal which should at long last set the issue to rest.

Whilst on the subject, there is a website based around this which whilst pretending to be a resource for all users of the K&A is actually pretty well a single issue hobby horse. Someone tell them that they are strident in tone, juvenile in content and constant use of the term "Ultra vires" is not some kind of trump card. Oh, and it doesn't help to be constantly in breach of Godwins law, BW has no plans for the mass extermination of millions nor will they invade Poland.

[LoneWolf]

All that you will have to do is continuously cruise the system, never remaining in the same town or village for more than 14 days.

 

Continuous cruisers are not vilified for continuously cruising. Unfortunately, a rather significant portion of those who claim to be continuous cruisers don't actually do so.

 

 

Any facts or statistics to back this up?

[canaldrifter]

You started it

 

No I didn't. I just pointed out, correctly, that there is no such thing as a CC licence.

 

It was HIM miss!

 

Tone

 

Any facts or statistics to back this up?

 

Of course he hasn't.

 

Tone

[mayalld]

No I didn't. I just pointed out, correctly, that there is no such thing as a CC licence.

 

 

And then flounced off when I proved that there IS.

[David Schweizer]

snip< Probably the only actual "freeloaders" are those who use the boat for high days and holidays only but declare themselves CCing and simply claim a bit of towpath as their own and show up every few weeks to take a recreational cruise and then return to the same spot. Often they can be recognised by the "gone for water" sign in the cockpit used to reserve "their" mooring or even by the name of the boat painted onto piling. >snip

 

 

It is very easy to make assumptions and allegations about such situations without knowing the true circumstances.

 

For three years I, and three other boat owners, were paying BW to moor our boats on the towpath above Birdingbury Wharf on the GU, and for those three years BW continually promised to erect permitted mooring signs, but did nothing. What were we supposed to do to protect our mooring space from casual moorers when we went away cruising. Even with self made signs and painted names on the piling, we often returned unable to moor on the stretch for which we were paying a handsome sum.

 

After three years of broken promises we all moved away. I obliterated the name of our boat before we left.

Edited January 12, 2011 by David Schweizer

[canaldrifter]

And then flounced off when I proved that there IS.

 

I 'flounced' off to collect my car as it's just passed it's MOT.

 

But, I'm not arguing with you any more. No point. You live in a different world of your own making.

 

Tone

[deletedaccount]

I only describe what the law actually is, not what somebody might wish it to be...

lol

[mayalld]

I 'flounced' off to collect my car as it's just passed it's MOT.

 

But, I'm not arguing with you any more. No point. You live in a different world of your own making.

 

 

That, and the fact that I was actually, rather inconveniently, right.

 

Bit of a bugger that, wasn't it?

[LoneWolf]

Are you going to answer my question Dave?

[canaldrifter]

That, and the fact that I was actually, rather inconveniently, right.

 

Bit of a bugger that, wasn't it?

 

Your need to feel right about everything and to score points over other posters is noted.

 

Tone

[mayalld]

Your need to feel right about everything and to score points over other posters is noted.

 

Tone

 

I have no need to feel right about everything.

 

I am right about things so much more frequently than you that I feel able to rest on my laurels.

 

However, I suppose that I should accept your concession that I was right with good grace.

[Strads]

ah well,, might habe been better if Joshua had asked about what was the best Loo to have for CCng,

 

we could have referd him to dean S for clarification!