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Does anybody know anything about the provenance or history of NB Goliath?

 

Currently for sale on apolloduck. http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=114745

 

Very pleasing-looking hull to my (probably still naïve) eye, but how much of it is original (whatever 'original' means)?!

 

Currently with a totally inappropriate engine and fit-out and gasping to be fitted with a National 2DM or something equally interesting. Quite a project but could become a very interesting and pleasing boat to own I think.

 

All comments welcome :-)

 

Mike

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Does anybody know anything about the provenance or history of NB Goliath?

 

Currently for sale on apolloduck. http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=114745

 

Very pleasing-looking hull to my (probably still naïve) eye, but how much of it is original (whatever 'original' means)?!

 

Currently with a totally inappropriate engine and fit-out and gasping to be fitted with a National 2DM or something equally interesting. Quite a project but could become a very interesting and pleasing boat to own I think.

 

All comments welcome :-)

 

Mike

 

The fore end is built out of what 'enthusiasts' call a "Mk1 Bantock". These were cabin horse boats fitted with full running gear and had quite fine lines. All of those that retain some form of identification, i.e. a gauge plate, can be traced back to Pickford, Tipton then passing through both the S.U.R.C.Co. and the L.M.S.R.. Most were latterly employed on the B.C.N. as cabinless day boats on railway interchange traffic. Records suggest that British Railways (L.M.R.) were disposing of these craft by the mid 1950's.

 

The British Waterways Board index for GOLIATH can be dated to 1986 (index numbers were first issued in 1980).

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Why would it need a more interesting engine?

 

With the advertised 1800 hp, you should be able to get this up on the plane!!

Bill Swann could do worse than look at this (24k) one cf the burnt 35k Ebay offewring.

 

I would be happy with the 1800cc BMC but the trads want a national or Kelvin, even Gardner in so that the expecation price goes up to 120k

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Looks quite nice, from limited info available.

 

Be aware that as the original hull, (probably wrought iron), will perhaps be over 110 years old, it's condition has to be assumed completely unknown until surveyed.

 

I had a boat like this I believed to be completely sound, until I sold it, and one of the people who viewed it quickly holed it at the water line with a chipping hammer, so even wrought iron doesn't last forever.

 

Would probably have been wooden bottomed I think, so will have much ewer steel base, presumably.

 

The way the swim and counter has been added looks better than many, and there appears to be a good swim length.

 

However, as to putting a National, Gardner, or whatever, in it, you would need to check suitability under the counter. It's quite likely that whilst there is very adequate space to swing a sensible prop for the BMC, there is not necessarily the clearances required to swing the much bigger blades ideally needed by such an engine.

 

If you put a big engine in a "traditional" location, with a back cabin behind, then you'll not have a heap of accommodation forward of that in a 48 foot boat. (From the picture, this boat seems to have both quite a long fore deck, and (particularly) front well, limiting cabin length.)

 

I do wonder if the fact that the (small?) portholes are positioned well up the cabin-sides, means internal headroom might be a lot less than in other boats.

 

How tall are you ?

 

I do like Bantock conversions, though, if well done, and on the face of it this one looks OK. Only a thorough viewing would start to find the down-sides, though.

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Looks quite nice, from limited info available.

 

Be aware that as the original hull, (probably wrought iron), will perhaps be over 110 years old, it's condition has to be assumed completely unknown until surveyed.

 

I had a boat like this I believed to be completely sound, until I sold it, and one of the people who viewed it quickly holed it at the water line with a chipping hammer, so even wrought iron doesn't last forever.

 

Would probably have been wooden bottomed I think, so will have much ewer steel base, presumably.

 

 

 

Not only a wooden bottom, but a wooden bottom strake in place of metal footings, for the bottoms to be spiked into. A nightmare to repair once the bottom strake started to rot, without renewing all the bottom boards :( . Presumably all gone now, replaced with steel, but as Alan says it'll need a careful coat of looking-at before jumping in.

 

Tim

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Not only a wooden bottom, but a wooden bottom strake in place of metal footings, for the bottoms to be spiked into. A nightmare to repair once the bottom strake started to rot, without renewing all the bottom boards :( . Presumably all gone now, replaced with steel, but as Alan says it'll need a careful coat of looking-at before jumping in.

 

Tim

 

Hmmm thanks for your comments everyone.

 

Looks to me as though, should I buy it, I would be buying a mostly contemporary 1984 48ft Black Country Narrowboats boat, but with the bows from a Mk1 Bantock grafted on instead of them having fabricated a new bow section of their own. So not perhaps as historical a boat as it first appears.

 

Even so, the new(ish) stern in the pics appears to have very fine lines to match the bows, and far nicer than the 1997 Black Country Narrowboats boat I used to own which was rather coarse in shape, clunkily fabricated and lacked attention to detail. Maybe my mine was thrown together by a YOPS apprentice and this one was built by the guv'nor in the days when he cared :-)

 

Reagrding the portholes, I did some work on another Black Country Narrowboats tug-style boat of about the same vintage a few years ago, and it's portholes were also stupidly high in the cabin sides. No problem with headroom though.

 

I might yet go and have a look at this boat as it is on the hardstanding, even though it is in Stoke on Trent which is blooming MILES away!

 

Mike

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Check the boat width carefully - middle age spread is not uncommom. Its quite easy to do as the boat is on hard standing. Use a plumb line to mark lines on the ground either side and measure distance between.

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Check the boat width carefully - middle age spread is not uncommom. Its quite easy to do as the boat is on hard standing. Use a plumb line to mark lines on the ground either side and measure distance between.

Good point, and one I had quite forgotten about.

 

Unlike a modern build, these will have started life around the 7 foot mark. The one I flogged in the 1970s had a beam of at least 7' 2", which would certainly cause problems some places these days.

 

Relatively easy to check it, if it's out of water.

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It clearly needs a nice single cylinder in it's own engine room, but i've done the moving engine and bedroom etc and would advise against it. There are plenty of boats for sale that you won't have to change to suit what you want.

Gary

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Just one thing to bear in mind - it has been up for sale for at least the last 18 months that I know of..............so does that mean there is something wrong wit it. It also started its For Sale life at a lot higher price that currently offered for............in excess of £30K.......

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Just one thing to bear in mind - it has been up for sale for at least the last 18 months that I know of..............so does that mean there is something wrong wit it. It also started its For Sale life at a lot higher price that currently offered for............in excess of £30K.......

 

 

Just dragging this thread up again because the other day I drove up to Longport for a look....

 

I dunno if my perspective is a bit warped but 'overpriced' seems an understatement to me, even at £20k as it is now.

 

The photos make the boat appear FAR better than it is in real life. The interior is old, knackered and thoroughly worn out in every area. The engine is a mess. The old section of hull is seriously dented/bent in at the sides. I'd estimate if a straightedge or chalkline was stretched along the sides at the waterline there would be a 5" gap between the line and the hull amidships starboard, and a 3" gap on the port side. There is no way this boat is suffering from middle age spread, quite the opposite!

 

The bit that will be putting most people off though I think is that the iron hull has been side-plated to about 12" high all around using as far as I can judge, 4mm plate. The hull is covered with surveyor chalk circles with thickness numbers and they are ALL values between 3.0mm and 4.0mm but the plating does not appear corroded, so I conclude it is thin in the first place. The baseplate also appears to me to be 4mm plate, and badly corroded although corrsosion can easily look far worse than it is.

 

In summary the boat is exactly the sort of thing I an looking for! I told the girl there I thought it was overpriced and I'd buy it if it were £10k but she just smiled and thought I was joking. So I let it drop, it being 4.55pm on a Friday and they were all ready to go home....

 

I might yet ring the governor and see if he is serious about getting rid of it but I think this is the wrong time of year for serious price reductions. I can see this boat growing roots and staying there in perpetuity if they stick to their price of £20k...

 

Mike

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The fore end is built out of what 'enthusiasts' call a "Mk1 Bantock". These were cabin horse boats fitted with full running gear and had quite fine lines. All of those that retain some form of identification, i.e. a gauge plate, can be traced back to Pickford, Tipton then passing through both the S.U.R.C.Co. and the L.M.S.R.. Most were latterly employed on the B.C.N. as cabinless day boats on railway interchange traffic. Records suggest that British Railways (L.M.R.) were disposing of these craft by the mid 1950's.

 

The British Waterways Board index for GOLIATH can be dated to 1986 (index numbers were first issued in 1980).

 

I am in complete agreement with Pete on this. It would be interesting to know if it retains the stepped knees which accomodated the wooden lower strake on these early composite boats. Also given the date of conversion is this the Bantock which was pulled out of Broken Cross flash a few years prior to 1986?

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I raised a sunk Bantock which had been used as a spoon dredger for many years. bottoms and side strake scrap but replated with new steel produced BALLINGER I named in honour of Charlie Ballinger from Gloucester the last No 1 working up to Cadburys The stern became GLENFIELD'S bow quite neatly.( Albert Brookes) A lot of work but very educational.

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2 hours ago, the yard said:

Can anyone confirm if the Goliath was built by Harland and Wolff?

Can confirm it certainly would not have been!

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1 hour ago, the yard said:

Many thanks. I was confused by the ad http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=114745 which states it being built by Harland and Wolff also listed here http://canalplan.org.uk/boat/101151 as built by Harland and Wolff.  

The CanalPlanAC listing is for a wooden boat 36 feet long and 12 feet wide so nothing to do with that Goliath.

The one that was advertised doesn't seem to be listed on that site.

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18 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

The CanalPlanAC listing is for a wooden boat 36 feet long and 12 feet wide so nothing to do with that Goliath.

The one that was advertised doesn't seem to be listed on that site.

Well the OP was over 6 years ago!

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Goliath does sometimes post on this forum so maybe he will appear soon and tell us who made his made his boat. However I do believe that the hull lacks any original identification plates.

...............Dave

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

Goliath does sometimes post on this forum so maybe he will appear soon and tell us who made his made his boat. However I do believe that the hull lacks any original identification plates.

...............Dave

And a fab boat it is with a darkroom and all the trimmings 

:)

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2 hours ago, David Mack said:

Well the OP was over 6 years ago!

I think this is the ad that relates to this boat : Goliath Historic Canal  Liveaboard Leicestershire UK. ... Has double-diagonal mahogany on oak frame hull was built by Harland and Wolff in 1903, and  was subsequently used as a cargo ship at Dunkirk

image.png.fea6d9e6c7e5e4f883c3b346856d9b94.pngimage.png.acd2ca2ba01c92f4663087c6850d6d08.png

 

12 hours ago, David Mack said:

H&W's Belfast shipyard has a Goliath crane (and one called Samson).

Interestingly, I currently work for Harland and Wolff and drive both Samson and Goliath !!

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