Just back from the national

[Neil TNC]

Interesting. I am a waterways business, and I don't do it because it is expensive and doesn't produce a sensible return on the investment. I get far more out of Internet presence in this age. The same is true of Crick.

 

I would love to see the IWA festival return to being a boat rally that encouraged people to go to little used parts of the system. That was its original ethos. Now it is too commercial. They should hold one up at the Titford Pools, or the top of the Wyrley and Essington at somewhere like Norton Canes. Or the River Weaver. Or a backwater on the Middle Levels. And so on.

 

Interesting. I am a waterways business, and I don't do it because it is expensive and doesn't produce a sensible return on the investment. I get far more out of Internet presence in this age. The same is true of Crick.

 

I would love to see the IWA festival return to being a boat rally that encouraged people to go to little used parts of the system. That was its original ethos. Now it is too commercial. They should hold one up at the Titford Pools, or the top of the Wyrley and Essington at somewhere like Norton Canes. Or the River Weaver. Or a backwater on the Middle Levels. And so on.

 

Is that some where near the Middle Level?

[Lady Muck]

We went yesterday (infact we are moored at Beale Park tonight, very southerly end, we were late back from Reading). Not been to one of these events before so no expectations.

 

We thought it was very quiet.

Agree with Stephen about the Jousting/knights.

We spent rather alot of money and came away satisfied - we needed a proper set of waterproofs each, got a really good price and got to try them out today because it poured down when we went to pick up our new canoe in Reading. I got a tin of the varnish as well, if it's any good I'm getting more and redoing the parquet floor next spring.

I don't think I'd have bothered going were we not in the area already/had we not been after some bargains.

And I got a great book on the Aire and Calder and bored my parnter silly pointing out all the boats and places I knew from the photos when I was little.

So all in all we had a good day out.

[DHutch]

Stand by for massive generalisation:

 

Could the answer be that campaign rallys are harder to get to? Sounds facetious but:

 

In the 70's, a large proportion of the navigable canals were in poor condition and bloody hard work. Lock gates had to be bodged up with sheet ply, pounds were often drained and things like jammed gates and bricks on the cills were stuff you sorted out yourself. A good day was only having to get in the water to saw a shopping rolley off the prop once. There were less of the facilities we now take for granted and towns generally turned their backs on the waterways. Boating was not for the faint hearted and was the hobby of a dedicated few who recognised the need to gather boats together to draw attention to the risk of losing a waterway as well as getting stuck in and restoring them. The rally either side of the long-breached Bridgewater was a good example.

Up until recently things have steadily improved, mostly, and a massively increased number of people have been able to take to the waterways on a system that by and large works, has enough facilities to support modern requirements for easy access shopping, waste disposal, waterside leisure etc and offers a considerable range of cruising miles. I would surmise that at least some of this later generation of boaters don't realise just how close we came to it all disappearing and just take it all for granted.

I occasionally read about on this site about people being worried about touching the lock walls or damaging paint - if you're that sort of boater you're perhaps less likely to want to reverse for miles up a near derelict branch arm just to contribute to a large virtual middle finger raised in the general direction of BW.

 

That went on a bit longer than I meant - kettle time I think.

 

Edited for spelling.

I dont think your wrong.

- Im 23, and only been boating seriously for the last seven of that, so i never saw the network in that state.

- However, equally, non of the boat i boat on (my own, the fullers, the parrots, spey are afraid of touching the sides!

 

I do find it very odd how precious people get to the paint, or more, that they have paint that is expensive fragile enough (below the gunnel as well) to get precious over. Fiar enough having a nice inside, tv, aircon, whatever. but not outside, on a narrowboat!!

 

Our paint get knocked off, when we hit things! Then every four years with slap more on. Very odd.

 

 

Daniel

[sueb]

I dont think your wrong.

- Im 23, and only been boating seriously for the last seven of that, so i never saw the network in that state.

- However, equally, non of the boat i boat on (my own, the fullers, the parrots, spey are afraid of touching the sides!

 

I do find it very odd how precious people get to the paint, or more, that they have paint that is expensive fragile enough (below the gunnel as well) to get precious over. Fiar enough having a nice inside, tv, aircon, whatever. but not outside, on a narrowboat!!

 

Our paint get knocked off, when we hit things! Then every four years with slap more on. Very odd.

 

 

Daniel

I agree paint is sacrificial like anodes. I do dislike the fenders festooning boats.

Sue

[PeterG]

I agree paint is sacrificial like anodes. I do dislike the fenders festooning boats.

Sue

 

I have never understood people who run with a canal boat with their fenders down. The only time we use any is when we moor.

 

Last week in a queue coming up Somerton Deep lock, where we met amongst others Bones, we followed a boat with loads of fenders down that struggled to get into the bottom and then warned us that the gate was not opening properly. Of course when it was our turn to go in we had no fenders down and of course no issue.

 

There was however a huge queue waiting to come down, which was not helped by people having trouble getting into the lock because of their fenders were left down.

[magpie patrick]

I have never understood people who run with a canal boat with their fenders down. The only time we use any is when we moor.

 

Last week in a queue coming up Somerton Deep lock, where we met amongst others Bones, we followed a boat with loads of fenders down that struggled to get into the bottom and then warned us that the gate was not opening properly. Of course when it was our turn to go in we had no fenders down and of course no issue.

 

There was however a huge queue waiting to come down, which was not helped by people having trouble getting into the lock because of their fenders were left down.

 

We're drifting off topic here, but Ripple, under my ownership, has never run with her fenders down.

 

Juno, on the other hand, always does, but her hull profile means that they "tuck in" underneath the gunnel in tight spaces, and are not an obstruction.

[FadeToScarlet]

I agree paint is sacrificial like anodes. I do dislike the fenders festooning boats.

Sue

 

I do find it very odd how precious people get to the paint, or more, that they have paint that is expensive fragile enough (below the gunnel as well) to get precious over. Fiar enough having a nice inside, tv, aircon, whatever. but not outside, on a narrowboat!!

 

Our paint get knocked off, when we hit things! Then every four years with slap more on. Very odd.

 

If I spent £6k on a full Phil Speight paintjob, I would be annoyed the first time I scratched or damaged it!

 

Which is why I will probably never spend that much on something that will suffer from the wear-and-tear of boating.

[XAlan W]

Interesting. I am a waterways business, and I don't do it because it is expensive and doesn't produce a sensible return on the investment. I get far more out of Internet presence in this age. The same is true of Crick.

 

I would love to see the IWA festival return to being a boat rally that encouraged people to go to little used parts of the system. That was its original ethos. Now it is too commercial. They should hold one up at the Titford Pools, or the top of the Wyrley and Essington at somewhere like Norton Canes. Or the River Weaver. Or a backwater on the Middle Levels. And so on.

 

The theme of the National Rally seems to have changed from it`s original [use it or lose it] to be for want of a better term a boat gathering I attended the National from 1956 to 1969 with the exception of 1966 on the two different boats I owned during that time period In the early years it was ``canal nuts`` struggling just to get there, just to prove that the canal in that area could be navigated, to in some cases keep it open, the case in point being that most of the system is now safe from closure the aims have changed somewhat, although it might be nice to see it held in some of the more out of the way &less used parts. Maybe a reason for not so many folk is. Well it`s just another rally, been there done that,& that it has no real purpose unlike the pioneering days.But then again the whole concept of canal boating has changed

[Tim]

I went for the first time and really enjoyed it.

[magpie patrick]

I think there are two things, bearing in mind I was a babe in arms at the 1966 rally (literally)

 

While the canals face a threat, they do not currently face anything like the threat they did in the sixties when wholesale closure of the system was a serious possibility, thus a campaign rally was necessary to protect the more vulnerable bits. I suspect Titford Pools was probably the last.

 

Second, people's willingness and ability to travel. I travelled from Bath, 75 miles and 1 hour 40 minutes driving, in 1950, no one in their right mind would have travelled that sort of distance (it would have taken more like three hours even if you had a car), and thus the rally now moves from region to region, not town to town.

 

This has had the effect of making it evolve into a water based version of a leisure show, where the main aim is attract newcomers and to provide family entertainment. I'm afraid the tat is everywhere (try any folk festival, except Sark this year which was totally free of such things). In this, capacity and access are the key issues.

 

The sad thing is that, while the Trailboat Rally is now spoken for until 2013, the campaign rally has a lot of gaps in its bookings, and I think the IWA are partly to blame for this. The bankside requirements are just too great, they want a mini national, and the cause is too specific. There aren't that many dead ends that can be navigated and await extension, and of those that there are, almost none can fulfil the criteria for the rally. I would like a gathering of boats at Dundas to campaign for the Somerset Coal Canal, perhaps with an ardent few carrying lumps of coal from Paulton (by hand or by bike to meet them) but there is nowhere for the extras that have to be laid on.

 

edited to add, as it's become an event to publicise canals, its a shame they can't publicise budget boating

Edited August 31, 2010 by magpie patrick

[alan_fincher]

If I spent £6k on a full Phil Speight paintjob, I would be annoyed the first time I scratched or damaged it!

I think you might struggle to get a full Phil Speight paint job as cheaply as that ?

 

Unless your bopat is very short, or you want something fairly plain.

 

Happy to be told I'm wrong on that, but many places charge a lot more than that now, I think.

 

(Having seen how many scratches we have put in a DIY paint job in just three short days, I think DIY was the right choice for us!)

[Canalwatcher]

......Last week in a queue coming up Somerton Deep lock, where we met amongst others Bones, we followed a boat with loads of fenders down that struggled to get into the bottom and then warned us that the gate was not opening properly. Of course when it was our turn to go in we had no fenders down and of course no issue.

 

There was however a huge queue waiting to come down, which was not helped by people having trouble getting into the lock because of their fenders were left down.

we went through a couple of weeks ago - a similar situation but there was a problem with the downstream door not opening fully. We had no fenders but only just mananaged to squeeze through with the use of some throttle apparently BW were called out afterwards but perhaps they did not fully correct the problem?

 

Mick

[Dominic M]

Is that some where near the Middle Level?

Cheeky s*d! Pedantically correct of course, but often referred to colloquially as The Middle Levels nonetheless, especially in Manea.

 

If I spent £6k on a full Phil Speight paintjob, I would be annoyed the first time I scratched or damaged it!

 

Which is why I will probably never spend that much on something that will suffer from the wear-and-tear of boating.

That would be just the roof and handrails then?

[Jim Jam]

We went, tom and gem spent the day looking at the WOW stands, which I have to admit were good. I went wondering and saw lots of really pretty boats, most of which were near signs saying no entry.

It seems to me it was a few engine suppliers and boat builders etcdoing a great job on what they do and a few other companies that tried hard, but on the whole, I would rather not have spent the money I did getting there and back

[tony collins]

Stand by for massive generalisation:

 

Could the answer be that campaign rallys are harder to get to? Sounds facetious but:

 

In the 70's, a large proportion of the navigable canals were in poor condition and bloody hard work. Lock gates had to be bodged up with sheet ply, pounds were often drained and things like jammed gates and bricks on the cills were stuff you sorted out yourself. A good day was only having to get in the water to saw a shopping rolley off the prop once.

 

Or winching the boat through a bridgehole!

[Strads]

Well - having read the thread so far I can understand the somments and generally concur.

 

The weather on Monday was superb,, dry under foot...

 

I have been to the last 3 nationals and maybe i wear blinkers but I didnt see any serious theme(s) or updates re condition / status of the system, re bits at threat, in poor condition, might be sold etc.

I spoke to a number of the restoration societys, and as volunteers, they are good, but several didnt know how they were actually progressing with their restorations, in terms of next significant project / time lines / costs.

 

I accept that there are many variable, but I would have like dto see a summary of progress "collated" by the IWA / WRG it might get some "support2 in effort or cash from those that want to see the next major issues solved. so i went home non the wiser to there progress..

 

 

Re traders - the engine market where well represented, ( is the market that big? / or margins strong enough to justify attending?)

 

A few folks selling rope/fenders but not much else.

 

Why have a few old cars/trucks no theme on these and condition varied...?

 

Why have crusdaders.. sorry i go see "boating topics" - any organisers take note I dont want such dross,,,

 

not sure re the funfair - and that made enough noise to drown out the jazz band - so thats about equal!!.(I'm a genuine grumpy old man!!)

 

Beer tent and food area was excellent - the indian food being superb again.

 

whilst I know they have some extra costs - I thought that 10,50 for 2 beers and a pimms a tadge steep..

( have worked at a beer festival etc and know the position re staff/costsetc )

 

Could maybe "clubs" and CWF share a stand to try and draw in members, place to meet chums etc.

 

I enjoyed seeing a few folks we know and meeting a couple of interesting new ones,

 

I look forward to the next one and hope that the iwa improve the content..

[the grinch]

 

I spoke to a number of the restoration societys, and as volunteers, they are good, but several didnt know how they were actually progressing with their restorations, in terms of next significant project / time lines / costs.

 

I accept that there are many variable, but I would have like dto see a summary of progress "collated" by the IWA / WRG it might get some "support2 in effort or cash from those that want to see the next major issues solved. so i went home non the wiser to there progress..

 

 

 

 

one of the problems here is confidentiallity, with the Wey and Arun we have over 50 landowners to liase with, some are less than supportive, then there is planning, local councillors and local societies all who want a say in what we do.

when we can be transparent we are and i hope that Turlough gave you as much info as he was allowed to. if not then please PM me and i will try to let you know the state of play as it stands at the present time.

as for completion dates & Costs thes are ever moving.

 

in any large organisation it is often unlikely that anyone holds all the cards, I probably know more of what is going on than the guys on the ground as I liase with the various groups and also oversee some of the work done. do i know everything that we are undertaking? no i don't and i doubt anyone does as everyone has different opinions/agendas.

then we have the landowners who can change their minds at any time, either way it is always a fine balancing act to keep them happy and on our side something i've become acutely aware of since taking on the role of maintenance coordinator for the trust

finally we have the 2 steps forward 1 step back problem as things go wrong / break this year alone we have had several problems with the boats, then we have had 6 weeks of water shortages (pumps turned of as rivers too low)then there is issues of planning our application for southland lock was submitted in February, but only finally agreed last month and with very heavy restrictions on working times/area.

 

personally I think the national has had its day and that canal societies/trusts would be better off attending local events than wasting resources on a "snobby boat owners show" which is what i think the national has become!

[MikeV]

...a "snobby boat owners show" which is what i think the national has become!

I struggle to see how you came to that summary of the event as I thought that attendees were very mixed (cruisers, trailboats, working boats, barges, etc.) and their owners on the whole were not at all snobbish and very friendly. I would agree with others that the focus of the show is somewhat nebulous as it tries to be a "festival" i.e a celebration of all things related to waterways, and to appeal to the general public. It is not a "boat show".

 

Perhaps the problem with the IWA National is that the public at large don't have much understanding of waterways, their history or how they are managed and maintained. Many that enjoy water without boats (e.g walkers, fishermen, cyclists) attend shows which are much more specific. I think the future of the National is likely to be mostly determined by the commercial outcome - did it at least break even? If it made a loss the IWA has to decide if promoting the waterways in this way is worth the investment.

 

I attended by boat for the first time this year and enjoyed the whole atmosphere of the event as a boat rally and waterways festival that was organised and run wholly by volunteers. Meeting other like minded folk, particularly those involved in restoration, made the visit and costs worthwhile.