Composting Lavatoirs

[AllanC]

I would imagine that most folks with a composting system would have at least 3 or 4 buckets used in rotation. When 1st bucket has reached its capacity it is removed, sealed and stored somewhere. Second bucket put in place and used until full, replaced by third bucket etc etc. By the time you are on the 4th bucket the 1st can be emptied ready for use again. It probably takes less time to empty a bucket of dried compost than it takes to empty a cassette, and with less smell.

Just to add...I have never owned one but I do understand the logic of having one so there is a great possibility of installing one on my own boat when I get it.

Edited August 3, 2017 by AllanC
ETA

[frangar]

So instead of a spare cassette or a decent sized tank you carry about 4 tubs of sh*t festering away.....hmmmm I'm not being sold on the idea.....

Given that when I'm boating I pass at least one Elsan point a day I just don't get why they are a good idea on something that has limited storage space although I'm guessing a widebeam could have a room solely for sh*t storage......

[Bargebuilder]

Composing anything, even garden waste which is relatively easy, requires attention to some basic rules: Compositon,  moisture content, aeration, temperature and mixing. This is why the posh, all singing all dancing, expensive composting toilets produce smells, because the mixing/aeration releases all the sealed-in gasses. Undeniably, during and immediately after the mixing of the soon to be compost, the smell produced is appalling, but this is outside of the building or boat where the ventilator terminates. In addition, the incorporation of wood shavings or peat modifies the composition and the fan and heating element (where one exists) controls the moisture level. 

The converting of poo to compost is a great thing, but a dessicating toilet simply dries out the poo in order to reduce its volume and weight by at least 80%, the resulting dessicated poo is safe and easy to bury or compost without smell. The fact that it needs no mixing in the bucket almost eliminates the production of nasty niffs, because each turd very quickly 'crusts' over and seals in the presence of the continuous draft produced by the tiny fan. The smell outside the boat is also minimal compared to that from a recently 'mixed' composting toilet.

Leaving the boat for weeks unattended is great for dessicating toilets as the passing of time aids dessication and reduces odours. A tiny solar panel will keep your battery topped up in your absence.

 

 

[mrsmelly]

55 minutes ago, AllanC said:

I would imagine that most folks with a composting system would have at least 3 or 4 buckets used in rotation. When 1st bucket has reached its capacity it is removed, sealed and stored somewhere. Second bucket put in place and used until full, replaced by third bucket etc etc. By the time you are on the 4th bucket the 1st can be emptied ready for use again. It probably takes less time to empty a bucket of dried compost than it takes to empty a cassette, and with less smell.

Just to add...I have never owned one but I do understand the logic of having one so there is a great possibility of installing one on my own boat when I get it.

I suppose for boaters with a trad engine room and a rear cabin the cabin can be used as a composting shed

[Steilsteven]

On 31/07/2017 at 16:52, blackrose said:

I will never cease to be amazed by the way in which some people on this forum pontificate and tell others what sort of toilet they should or shouldn't have! It's different strokes for different folks and different types of boat toilet will suit different people's circumstances better than other types.

JUST LIKE BOATS THEMSELVES, ALL BOAT TOILETS ARE A COMPROMISE!

If one doesn't understand that concept then perhaps one doesn't know as much about boats as one thinks! 

As for myself, I bought a composting loo and found that the build quality just wasn't good enough to install on my boat so I sent it back for a refund. After 12 years I've completely overhauled my Vacuflush cassette toilet, bought 2 new cassettes and it's now working perfectly. It's not a perfect system but it doesn't smell and I haven't found anything better (for me).

 

There you go, having one of those and the problems we had with it including the unbearable smell inside the boat from it was why we went over to a composting loo. My wife, who took a lot of convincing at first, loves it and wouldn't change it for any other type of toilet.

Keith

[Steilsteven]

2 hours ago, AllanC said:

I would imagine that most folks with a composting system would have at least 3 or 4 buckets used in rotation. When 1st bucket has reached its capacity it is removed, sealed and stored somewhere. Second bucket put in place and used until full, replaced by third bucket etc etc. By the time you are on the 4th bucket the 1st can be emptied ready for use again. It probably takes less time to empty a bucket of dried compost than it takes to empty a cassette, and with less smell.

Just to add...I have never owned one but I do understand the logic of having one so there is a great possibility of installing one on my own boat when I get it.

That's pretty much what I do except with three bases ( buckets if you prefer ) over a fifteen week cycle.

Keith

[Steilsteven]

2 hours ago, frangar said:

So instead of a spare cassette or a decent sized tank you carry about 4 tubs of sh*t festering away.....hmmmm I'm not being sold on the idea.....

Given that when I'm boating I pass at least one Elsan point a day I just don't get why they are a good idea on something that has limited storage space although I'm guessing a widebeam could have a room solely for sh*t storage......

If you mean shit then say shit, we all know what you mean so don't be shy.

Stick to what you prefer, no one is trying to talk you into anything.

Keith

[frangar]

2 hours ago, Steilsteven said:

If you mean shit then say shit, we all know what you mean so don't be shy.

Stick to what you prefer, no one is trying to talk you into anything.

Keith

I'd love to say it but I got a slap on the wrist from the mods for using vulgar language last time I used it....perhaps they don't mind so much now!.....it's not so much sticking to what you know as much as failing to hear any sensible argument as to why they are better for use on a boat......

[dogless]

The storage/rotation of containers is the point I find is ignored in much of the literature. 

I occasionally store a full cassette until I reach an elsan point, so I am not against the principle, rather that the period of time necessary isn't suited to continuous or extended cruising.

I am not defending or attacking any system, just trying to get information to base a personal judgement on.

 

Rog

[Bargebuilder]

No "sensible" reasons for having a composting loo seems a bit harsh! How about:

1. Costs a tiny fraction to Instal: As low as £150 compared to £1500 for a macerator, tank and all the associated cabling and plumbing.

2. Cannot block...... ever: Unlike mine and lots of my friends experience of macerating toilets and at the most inconvenient times.

3. Cannot smell within the boat and usually hardly noticeably outside. (My macerating toilet eventually smelt horrible, although I accept that yours may not)

4. Requires you to store two small lidded buckets (10Kg each) of maturing compost that doesn't smell, instead of hundreds of litres of the most foul smelling slurry.

5. Avoids the not inconsiderable cost of pump-out.

6. Avoids the regular carting of heavy toilet cassettes and those splashes in the eye!

7. Vastly reduces the amount of water you need to take on board and so the frequency of fill-ups compared to a boat with a flushing macerator loo.

8. Ecologically, composting is much more 'green' than having your sewage transported and treated, even more so when it is mixed with 'blue' chemicals that are toxic to the environment.

9. Almost zero maintenance costs: no macerator pump or control box failures, no flexible hose replacement, no agressive 'black' water eating away at steel or even stainless steel tanks from the inside.

10. For static liveaboards, no more trips to the pump-out in mid-winter when the canal might be frozen.

Are none of these reasons sensible?

 

 

 

 

 

[AllanC]

I can't argue with any of those points. For a liveaboard it would seem like an ideal solution.

[Jerra]

4 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

No "sensible" reasons for having a composting loo seems a bit harsh! How about:

1. Costs a tiny fraction to Instal: As low as £150 compared to £1500 for a macerator, tank and all the associated cabling and plumbing.

Surely that will only apply if you either have it fitted from new or buy a sailaway and fit it out yourself.

2. Cannot block...... ever: Unlike mine and lots of my friends experience of macerating toilets and at the most inconvenient times.

This comparison only works if comparing to a macerator many have dump through or cassette.

3. Cannot smell within the boat and usually hardly noticeably outside. (My macerating toilet eventually smelt horrible, although I accept that yours may not)

Cannot smell within the boat.  Going by some of what I have read in this thread ought that not be shouldn't smell within the boat.

4. Requires you to store two small lidded buckets (10Kg each) of maturing compost that doesn't smell, instead of hundreds of litres of the most foul smelling slurry.

5. Avoids the not inconsiderable cost of pump-out.

So does a cassette.

6. Avoids the regular carting of heavy toilet cassettes and those splashes in the eye!

So the weekly removal of liquid waste is light weight and doesn't splash.  Interesting.

7. Vastly reduces the amount of water you need to take on board and so the frequency of fill-ups compared to a boat with a flushing macerator loo.

8. Ecologically, composting is much more 'green' than having your sewage transported and treated, even more so when it is mixed with 'blue' chemicals that are toxic to the environment.

More and more people are not treating black waste with chemicals and the waste can then be "transported" by gravity and treated in the normal way.

9. Almost zero maintenance costs: no macerator pump or control box failures, no flexible hose replacement, no agressive 'black' water eating away at steel or even stainless steel tanks from the inside.

Do you have a special hatred for macerators?  You only seem to be comparing composting with macerating.

10. For static liveaboards, no more trips to the pump-out in mid-winter when the canal might be frozen.

I was interested in the statement earlier in the thread that disposal of liquid waste took seconds.  This suggests untreated liquid waste in quantity is being dumped somewhere - what we call round here "a dyke back" perhaps.  It doesn't sound terrible hygienic and more than a litlle anti social if this is the case.

Are none of these reasons sensible?

Please note I am not saying that all/any of the suggested points aren't sensible it is just that to me it seemed to ignore one or two things and be a bit heavily biased against macerating.

 

[Bargebuilder]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Please note I am not saying that all/any of the suggested points aren't sensible it is just that to me it seemed to ignore one or two things and be a bit heavily biased against 

I do indeed have a special hatred of macerating toilets, because I have lived with one for 4 years, put up with the smells, needed to unblock it on numerous occasions and carried on board large volumes of liquidised sewage. 

My wife and I are full time live-aboards and I really hate lugging around and swilling out toilet cassettes. Doing that every three days would be my least preferred option of all. 

Urine is almost sterile and a great deal cleaner than river water. Only stale urine reaks because bacteria has partially converted it into ammonia. There are numerous bankside places that the mild fertilising effect of urine would benefit. In addition, the liquid can be poured into any public toilet. 

In my experience, a wide mouth urine bottle is a lot less likely to splash than a toilet cassette, but much more importantly, it would be vastly less unpleasant if it did!

It goes without saying, that if you have invested heavily in a pump-out type toilet and it smells sweet, never blocks and you are happy with the ongoing costs then you wouldn't think about changing it. Likewise, if you don't mind the endless emptying of toilet cassettes then you wouldn't change either. This thread is aimed at people who are deciding what to install either for the first time or as a replacement for old, smelly or faulty equipment, and there will be plenty of those.

 

 

 

 

 

[frangar]

8 hours ago, Jerra said:

Please note I am not saying that all/any of the suggested points aren't sensible it is just that to me it seemed to ignore one or two things and be a bit heavily biased against macerating.

 

That post saved me some typing! 

My pump out tank has minimal smell when emptying and none in use due to not adding chemicals apart from a Sealand sachet once in a while that encourages good bacteria....and I have a ports potti as a back up in case I get iced in. 

My dump through wasn't expensive...is simple and easy to use...and doesn't get blocked.

Im afraid I still don't get composting toilets for a boat....they do seem like Axiom propellers....the users won't say they have been sold snake oil...

[Jerra]

6 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

I do indeed have a special hatred of macerating toilets, because I have lived with one for 4 years, put up with the smells, needed to unblock it on numerous occasions and carried on board large volumes of liquidised sewage. 

My wife and I are full time live-aboards and I really hate lugging around and swilling out toilet cassettes. Doing that every three days would be my least preferred option of all. 

Urine is almost sterile and a great deal cleaner than river water. Only stale urine reaks because bacteria has partially converted it into ammonia. There are numerous bankside places that the mild fertilising effect of urine would benefit. In addition, the liquid can be poured into any public toilet. 

In my experience, a wide mouth urine bottle is a lot less likely to splash than a toilet cassette, but much more importantly, it would be vastly less unpleasant if it did!

It goes without saying, that if you have invested heavily in a pump-out type toilet and it smells sweet, never blocks and you are happy with the ongoing costs then you wouldn't think about changing it. Likewise, if you don't mind the endless emptying of toilet cassettes then you wouldn't change either. This thread is aimed at people who are deciding what to install either for the first time or as a replacement for old, smelly or faulty equipment, and there will be plenty of those.

Urine when it leaves the body is usually sterile but can contain pathogens under some circumstances.  Its use in agriculture has many handling and application points to minimise risk.   I am not confident that urine from a composting toilet dumped somewhere is going to prevent possible contamination for others e.g. on to a pet dog and from there to a child.

Probably not a great risk with the current percentage of boats with composting toilets but more of a concern if they were to "catch on".

[rasputin]

So, you piss in the canal, and bag your shit up and put it in the bln

I'm missing the composting bit 

 

[Chewbacka]

8 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

..................................Urine is almost sterile and a great deal cleaner than river water. .......................

You are probably correct, but I would let me kids play in a stream, or even swim in the Thames - is that still allowed? - but I would not let them play with a bucket of urine.  So I don't think dumping a large amount under a public hedge is a reasonable solution.

[frahkn]

10 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

I do indeed have a special hatred of macerating toilets, because I have lived with one for 4 years, put up with the smells, needed to unblock it on numerous occasions and carried on board large volumes of liquidised sewage. 

My wife and I are full time live-aboards and I really hate lugging around and swilling out toilet cassettes. Doing that every three days would be my least preferred option of all. 

Urine is almost sterile and a great deal cleaner than river water. Only stale urine reaks because bacteria has partially converted it into ammonia. There are numerous bankside places that the mild fertilising effect of urine would benefit. In addition, the liquid can be poured into any public toilet. 

In my experience, a wide mouth urine bottle is a lot less likely to splash than a toilet cassette, but much more importantly, it would be vastly less unpleasant if it did!

It goes without saying, that if you have invested heavily in a pump-out type toilet and it smells sweet, never blocks and you are happy with the ongoing costs then you wouldn't think about changing it. Likewise, if you don't mind the endless emptying of toilet cassettes then you wouldn't change either. This thread is aimed at people who are deciding what to install either for the first time or as a replacement for old, smelly or faulty equipment, and there will be plenty of those.

 

 

 

 

 

We don't live aboard but we do spend long periods on the boat.

I have been thinking about changing to a composting toilet, might have already done so if the chap at Hillmorton was still available. As it is, was I'm thinking of going to Crick next year to have a look.

I have a macerator/pump-out which doesn't block or smell but has to be backed up by a porta-pottie  because it fills up too quickly.

It would cost little to fit - electricity and ventilation can be taken from the macerator etc but I don't follow your 'low price' remarks. These things cost a grand or more don't they?

Also, a fitter at the yard tells me that the build quality of most is poor.

Frank.

[Bargebuilder]

Rasputin, I neither urinate in the canal or defecate in the bin: I live on the tidal East coast, a very long way from any canal.

Let's limit the discussion to facts and first hand experience and remain civil.

I have listed the advantages as I see them of composting over other types of toilet and it is your gift to disagree with them. 

When our posh pump-out loo broke and the electronic control unit was to cost almost as much as the toilet did in the first place, we had nothing to lose in experimenting with a separating composter, after all it cost less than £150 and was a simple diy project to build. 

Like many 'better halves', my wife was sceptical and reluctant, but now that smells and blockages are a thing of the past, she is completely sold on the idea. 

[rasputin]

In most of these conversations, people tend to give examples of how the waste can be disposed of. Very rare to find out what people actually do with it.

One guy buried it in a friendly farmer's field or took it to his friends compost heap, neither seem to me to be a great solution for most folk.

It would be a great addition to the discussion if folk told us what they actually did with it. 

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, rasputin said:

It would be a great addition to the discussion if folk told us what they actually did with it. 

Well they start off by having several buckets of festering poo stored on their boat for a few months. What they do after that appears to be a secret. 

[Bargebuilder]

Hi Frank,

One of the composting converts where we moor bought a thousand pound composter that does everything, including rotating the bucket a quarter turn and flicking back a 'modesty' hatch (so you can't see the deposits) using the weight applied to the loo seat when one sits down. She is, I understand, pleased with it, but the seat activated mechanism has failed, so the build quality can't be great.

We didn't know if we would like 'composting' or even if it would work, so I bought a urine separator, a bucket, a computer fan with some ducting and built a box in which to house it. The parts are readily available from ebay and excellent instructions can be found on the littlehouse Web site. About £100 plus the box, which can be as fancy or otherwise as you like. Mine is tongue and groove pine, but I have seen simple plywood and very smart varnished oak. My advice is to spend as little as possible to see if it is for you.

Don't listen to the converts or the doubters, make up your own mind.

[haggis]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Well they start off by having several buckets of festering poo stored on their boat for a few months. What they do after that appears to be a secret. 

It has already been said that the poo is put in nappy sacks which are put in wheelie bins 

Not very nice if the bag bursts. I think this practice is disgusting but those who compost seem to think it is OK. 

Haggis 

 

[rusty69]

24 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Rasputin, I neither urinate in the canal or defecate in the bin: I live on the tidal East coast, a very long way from any canal.

Is the Chelmer and Blackwater considered to be a canal? 

[Bargebuilder]

The Chelmer and Blackwater is indeed a canal, but very poorly maintained and sometimes impassable because of weed build-up. It would, for most, require a coastal passage to reach and I'm not sure I would bother.