Narrowboats and wide boats rediscovered at Harefield - the facts

[Laurence Hogg]

Following a Sunday afternoon walk Mark Pullinger chanced upon a wide boat in a country park, then as the scene unfolded more boats were found.

 

The boats lying sunk and or buried at Harefield are a time capsule awaiting proper exploration, conservation and recording. Some of the craft will be salvageable and may return to the inland waterways. Others will need recording for future reference, as they may not be in a recoverable condition.

 

The site contains the remains of in excess of 50 boats in theory, some aerial evidence could indicate even more, however some may have been removed over the years. The site is not connected to the Grand Union canal, it is landlocked.

 

The waters are fished by the Harrow Angling club and the site is part of Colne Valley country park contained within the borough of Hillingdon.

 

We would ask, you to not interfere with any of the remains as it is our overall intention to alert National public awareness to this site in the hope that professional recovery and examination will be forthcoming. We have done as much research as time has permitted and are very grateful to certain key enthusiasts who have shared information and also to the Waterways Trust for assisting with this effort.

 

To answer the most obvious question on everyones mind - what is there?

 

The following craft are identifiable and their probable / definite locations are known, this is derived from written BTC evidence, photos and examination of the site:

 

Fellows, Morton & Clayton iron horse boats:

Yardley

Upwood

Jersey

Penkridge

Amesbury

Tring (former Turkey)

Pretoria

Natal

Yeading

Keswick

Iver

 

Wooden horse boats:

Ida

Ena

Dee

Fay

Gladys

Dorset

 

Wooden Motor boat:

Erica

 

A H Taylor horse boat:

Daisy

 

L B Faulkner Horse boat:

Maude

 

Warickshore Canal carrying Co motor boat:

Calder

 

Thos Clayton (Paddington) wooden wide boats:

Jill

David

Trixie

Forget me not

Mavis

Edythe

 

The following are known to be on the site but location is not known:

 

Associated Canal Carriers (Royalty class)(GUCCCo) buttys:

Adelaide

Albert

Alexandra

Countess

 

Thos Clayton (Paddington) wide boats

Alberta

Rose of Tyburn

 

Warickshire Canal Carrying Co:

MB The King

 

Henry Boyer wide boats:

4 iron, 1 steel names not known.

 

BCN Joey

BCN !7928 open iron boat

 

Grand Union Canal Co

Composite Mud hopper

 

These photos are from 1961:

This is the site today:

This is FMC Yardley today,

 

Please respect these remains until proper recording and investigation can be orginised.

[Sue1946]

I don't think any of these are recognisable!!

 

edit cos link did not work as I wished!!

(back to 'stupid' 'boaters' thread, Lots of us land people are pretty dumb on pooters too!

Edited March 9, 2010 by Sue1946

[carlt]

I would be very interested in getting involved with this project, especially with the wooden boats.

[bag 'o' bones]

First rule of archaeology is not to let on where you have discovered something until a proper assesment can be arranged!

[carlt]

First rule of archaeology is not to let on where you have discovered something until a proper assesment can be arranged!

Fortunately the general opinion of abandoned historic boats is that they are an eyesore either ignored or destroyed so it's unlikely the metal detecting grave robbers will descend on this site, to pick it clean.

 

Considering the historically significant boats and ships littered about our country, being allowed to deteriorate beyond repair, the best hope for something meaningful to happen to this lot is, probably, to raise awareness amongst enthusiasts and hope that a knowledgable band of volunteers will get involved and do something, before one too many complaints of snagged tackle causes them to be destroyed.

Edited March 10, 2010 by carlt

[MarkyP]

The site contents and location remained secret whilst a thorough investigation was carried out involving assistance from a number of key professionals. The decision to announce was not taken likely and iiwas made after consultation, with a concensus of opinion on the same lines as Carlt. The site is not under the care of people who would apreciate the historic importance, and the boats have already endured one secret weekend destruction session in the late 1950's - a repeat of which could be a possibility if increased enthusiast awareness is not made. There has been a considerable amount of information gathered and this (databases, documents and photographs) will be uploaded onto the CanalScape-London group site in coming days. Brgds, Mark. Quote CarlT:

Fo*rtunately the general opinion of abandoned historic boats is that they are an eyesore either ignored or destroyed so it's unlikely the metal detecting grave robbers will descend on this site, to pick it clea

 

Considering the historically significant boats and ships littered about our country, being allowed to deteriorate beyond repair, the best hope for something meaningful to happen to this lot is, probably, to raise awareness amongst enthusiasts and hope that a knowledgable band of volunteers will get involved and do something, before one too many complaints of snagged tackle causes them to be destroyed.

Edited March 10, 2010 by MarkyP

[Paul H]

I was aware of these boats in the 1970s when I lived at Uxbridge - A friend and I had a madcap schemme to salvage them and perhaps if we'd known some were composite we would have done. Some had been buried - I remember a row of butty elums sticking out of the ground.

 

I believe Alan Brown made a map showing their various positions - Pete Harrison should have this information.

 

There is at least one other interesting boat in the actual marina lake - the tug Panama which I believe was a wide tug like Buffalo - you can just see (or could) its iron engine room poking above water. The wooden motor Rodney also exists as a landing stage.

 

But there are enough derelict working boats around the system awaiting funds or enthusiasm to restore - a wait that may for many go on for ever -so I hope these boats can be left to moulder gently away.

 

 

Paul

Edited March 10, 2010 by Paul H

[Derek R.]

I wonder if in fifty years time these will be a Secret? as today they are treated just the same as those hidden from view were fifty years ago, just a few yards away.

 

How much importance is placed on unwanted items through the course of time. I shouldn't think there is much to 'pick over' now, though many may be visiting for photographs, so the area will inevitably be disturbed beyond what is wanted - despite the pleas. What was 'picked' from them years ago, would have been done as they were no longer of use, and those doing the 'picking' would have had no available finances nor requirements to ressurect and return the greater bulk to service. In the process perhaps, supplying something missing from an extant example - or flogging it for another morsel of grub.

 

More beautiful than the gravel barges granted, but there are many fine examples of such boats on the cut already - usable, and not buried in a land locked flash. Why such attention to so difficult a task as possible recovery - is beyond me, when Progress and others are still mouldering in a still connected arm.

 

You'll have public awareness alright - amongst some. Many will have known of their presence and left sleeping dogs lie. I'll settle for the archive pictures thanks. Sorry if this sounds 'unenthusiastic' and a bit cynical - reality check or just one ignorant opinion? - ignore if you don't like.

 

Derek

[Athy]

The photos, from nearly 50 years ago, show the boats already in a dilapidated state; so in what condition are they now? There can be very little left of some of them.

[Laurence Hogg]

Thank you all for your comments.

The real "Prize" on this site would be to recover a GJ horse / tug drawn wide boat of which no survivor is known to exist. There is also a Boyers boat again wide that was built in Holland. An operation to do this needs funding if it went ahead, however on this site are at least 11 very saleable Josher hulls which as far as we can see should be salvagable these could assist in the financial equation. The wooden boats in some cases may be in good condition, they were sunk quickly and have remained submerged, "Fay" and "Gladys" are two possibilites along with "Ena" and "Dee". Our descision to go public on these findings was taken after much discussion, none of us involved has the resources to handle this and we hope outside help may be coming forward from the results being publicised.

 

First rule of archaeology is not to let on where you have discovered something until a proper assesment can be arranged!

 

We have assessed the site with help of the Waterways Trust and other knowledgable bodies. The descision was fully agreed between parties to go public as the best option.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[magnetman]

Thank you all for your comments.

The real "Prize" on this site would be to recover a GJ horse / tug drawn wide boat of which no survivor is known to exist. There is also a Boyers boat again wide that was built in Holland. An operation to do this needs funding if it went ahead, however on this site are at least 11 very saleable Josher hulls which as far as we can see should be salvagable these could assist in the financial equation. The wooden boats in some cases may be in good condition, they were sunk quickly and have remained submerged, "Fay" and "Gladys" are two possibilites along with "Ena" and "Dee". Our descision to go public on these findings was taken after much discussion, none of us involved has the resources to handle this and we hope outside help may be coming forward from the results being publicised.

 

 

 

We have assessed the site with help of the Waterways Trust and other knowledgable bodies. The descision was fully agreed between parties to go public as the best option.

 

Do these boats have an owner?

[zenataomm]

I can't add to anything that's been said above other than ............. whatever's decided .... good luck!

[mayalld]

Do these boats have an owner?

 

One presumes that they "belong" to BW as successors in title to the BTC, who owned them at the time they were sunk.

 

I would imagine that BW would be willing to let title pass for a nominal sum.

[Laurence Hogg]

Do these boats have an owner?

 

John Hawtrey the original pit owner was paid per boat by BTC/BW to have them sunk on his land or covered up, these records exist. That does not mean the right of ownership passed to him so techically they were still BTC craft. As the land is now owned by Hillingdon I would imagine that also included the boats. Its an interesting point and has been discussed much.

[bag 'o' bones]

The boats lying sunk and or buried at Harefield are a time capsule awaiting proper exploration, conservation and recording. Some of the craft will be salvageable and may return to the inland waterways. Others will need recording for future reference, as they may not be in a recoverable condition.

 

We have assessed the site with help of the Waterways Trust and other knowledgable bodies. The decision was fully agreed between parties to go public as the best option.

 

I'm not trying to be a smart alec but you did state that the boats required furthur recording!

 

Some of you on the forum will probably visited the Blists Hills Victorian Town in Telford, which orginally was an industrial open air museum.

 

Back in the 60's on the publication of the proposals to turn the Blist Hill site into a museum as there were a large number of iron based industrial remains such as boilers engines etc lying around, the first thing that happened the scrap merchants moved in and scrapped a lot of the equipment the trust were trying to get preserved!

 

If they had kept the proposals secret until the area was secured properly there would have been a lot more 'original' exhibits to see today

 

Just a thought i'm sure that the site in question has been scrap risk assessed properly.

[antarmike]

I remember in the late 70's a motor boat rams head was visible. After a few years of knowing it, it "dissapeared".

 

I did know which boat it went onto,when it re-appeared, but that was then, and now I can't remember.

[Derek R.]

They would have been floated there before the banks were built up to facilitate operation of a dragline to extract more ballast.

Sinking's easy and cheap. Scrap value may have been rock bottom.

 

Derek

 

http://www.waterways.org.uk/learning/histo...boats__freight_

 

Mark refers to this.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Derek R.

[MarkyP]

. The original IWA 1959 report explaining the details asked can be found via a Google search or on the CanalScape London group site. Brgds, Mark

 

The original

So how did they get the boats there?

 

And why sink them? If they really were surplus to requirements at the time why did they not burn the wooden boats and scrap the iron/steel ones? (Although I'm very glad they didn't).

 

David

[/quot

e]

[Laurence Hogg]

They would have been floated there before the banks were built up to facilitate operation of a dragline to extract more ballast.

Sinking's easy and cheap. Scrap value may have been rock bottom.

 

Derek

 

Not at all. This pit has always been seperate. The bank was bulldozed through from Boyers pit (Harefiled marina today) one weekend and the first batch floated through. After that it was reinstated. There was however a connection from the canal into Harefield 2 the lake to the south and more could have come that way as both these waters were connected then.

SEE BELOW

[ditchcrawler]

John Hawtrey the original pit owner was paid per boat by BTC/BW to have them sunk on his land or covered up, these records exist. That does not mean the right of ownership passed to him so techically they were still BTC craft. As the land is now owned by Hillingdon I would imagine that also included the boats. Its an interesting point and has been discussed much.

So If I pay a scrap yard to take my old car away and then you turn up at the yard and take the engine out do you think the yard owner would agree that I sold you the engine for a nominal sum or do you think he would want £50 off you.

I think its a sticky wicket, especially if you get a wad of cash from some where to do them up.

[bag 'o' bones]

So If I pay a scrap yard to take my old car away and then you turn up at the yard and take the engine out do you think the yard owner would agree that I sold you the engine for a nominal sum or do you think he would want £50 off you.

I think its a sticky wicket, especially if you get a wad of cash from some where to do them up.

 

I think sensibility will prevail in this circumstance, as does most exmples of this type.

 

I think it would take a pretty hard nosed business man to demand hard cash for something that has more value historically than in actual physical value.

[Derek R.]

Not a lot of difference Laurence - you still dig a hole from the bank, cut a channel, fill it in. Same result. Floated in then sectioned off.

 

Nice picture.

 

Derek

[buccaneer]

Earlier this year I caught the end of country tracks or a similar programme and they had a story about ex working boats that had been scrapped in the 60 or 70's and now all these boats are partially buried and forming an embankment,the water course they were has has since been diverted.

I only saw part of this story thats why I am a little vague.

[carlt]

I only saw part of this story thats why I am a little vague.

The Purton Hulks?

 

Clicky

[buccaneer]

The Purton Hulks?

 

Clicky

 

 

Thanks I will look that up,the link does not work I also tried cutting and pasting.