Tim Wilkinson's Hold on a Minute - real names of the boatpeople?

[X Alan W]

Re hashing an old topic the extension cabin was removed from Bawtry at Charity dock cant remember if it was 59 or early into the 60's could have been on Willow Wren's take over as Dennis Clarke used to put work Joe Gilberts way hence the kaleidoscope painting on the fore ends a mark of Jess Owens Hand

[pete harrison]

37 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Re hashing an old topic the extension cabin was removed from Bawtry at Charity dock cant remember if it was 59 or early into the 60's could have been on Willow Wren's take over as Dennis Clarke used to put work Joe Gilberts way hence the kaleidoscope painting on the fore ends a mark of Jess Owens Hand

REDSHANK (exREADING) and GREENSHANK (exBAWTRY) were purchased by Willow Wren Canal Carrying Company Ltd. in February 1954, and following docking entered service in June of the same year with Jack Skinner as steerer. In August 1955 REDSHANK and GREENSHANK attended a rally of boats at Banbury and were photographed quite extensively, and these photographs show GREENSHANK with a standard cabin - so I had surmised that the long cabin was removed whilst BAWTRY was being converted into GREENSHANK at W.H. Walker & Bros., Ltd., Rickmansworth in the spring of 1954, but as always I am happy to be corrected 

[Athy]

1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

This is a boating forum.  No cricket please!

George

Oh come on, the last week has been the first time in months that an Englishman can mention cricket without inviting general derision.

[furnessvale]

21 minutes ago, Athy said:

Oh come on, the last week has been the first time in months that an Englishman can mention cricket without inviting general derision.

Sorry, I'm still smarting from the Ashes!  The only ashes I will discuss at the moment are the ones you put down the back of leaky gates!

George

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Sorry, I'm still smarting from the Ashes!  The only ashes I will discuss at the moment are the ones you put down the back of leaky gates!

George

...and the only ODI you'll discuss is Bill the birdwatcher, no doubt.

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, pete harrison said:

REDSHANK (exREADING) and GREENSHANK (exBAWTRY) were purchased by Willow Wren Canal Carrying Company Ltd. in February 1954, and following docking entered service in June of the same year with Jack Skinner as steerer. In August 1955 REDSHANK and GREENSHANK attended a rally of boats at Banbury and were photographed quite extensively, and these photographs show GREENSHANK with a standard cabin - so I had surmised that the long cabin was removed whilst BAWTRY was being converted into GREENSHANK at W.H. Walker & Bros., Ltd., Rickmansworth in the spring of 1954, but as always I am happy to be corrected 

Clearly Redshank and Greenshank are some of the most photographed of the Willow Wren boats.  I certainly don't recall ever seeing any picture that suggested Bawtry/Greenshank even shortly retained its extended cabin in WW ownership, but clearly from what you are saying, it sounds like there could have been no more than about a year and a half where it was possible anyway.

[furnessvale]

27 minutes ago, Athy said:

...and the only ODI you'll discuss is Bill the birdwatcher, no doubt.

That nicely gets us back on topic with Redshank and Greenshank!

George

[Athy]

11 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

That nicely gets us back on topic with Redshank and Greenshank!

George

I'd like to tell you that it was intentional....

[Paul H]

30 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Clearly Redshank and Greenshank are some of the most photographed of the Willow Wren boats.  I certainly don't recall ever seeing any picture that suggested Bawtry/Greenshank even shortly retained its extended cabin in WW ownership, but clearly from what you are saying, it sounds like there could have been no more than about a year and a half where it was possible anyway.

The Wilkinson's were apparently running a pub in Cornwall by 1949 and therefore Bawtry spent several more years in BW ownership before being passed to Willow Wren.  The cabin extension was added at the Wilkinson's expense and I would have expected that they would have been required to remove it at the end of their lease period!

it would be interesting to know if Bawtry pops up on any gauging or traffic records in the very early 50s.

Paul

[Tam & Di]

Moving on from the original theme. Redshank and Greenshank were owned in the 70s by Nick Gray and his then partner Corinna Brown, allowing them when they did some retail coal trips the neat name on the side "Brown and Gray". They fetched up in Bath with the tar boat Jolly as well and started trip boating there. Nick subsequently owned/operated a 38m peniche with his current partner Maggie Armstrong for several years. That was named "Vagari" - no problem back then as it was long before viagra came about, but he might have renamed it if he ran it today   

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

That was named "Vagari" - no problem back then as it was long before viagra came about, but he might have renamed it if he ran it today   

The vagaries of nomenclature, indeed.

I don't know what it means in French, must go and look it up.

(Scuttles back from the study). It doesn't appear to mean anything!

Edited January 20, 2018 by Athy

[Tam & Di]

In the plural vagaries in English it means something like "quirks" of course, but I always thought of Vagari having connotation of "wanderer"

[pete harrison]

1 hour ago, Paul H said:

The Wilkinson's were apparently running a pub in Cornwall by 1949 and therefore Bawtry spent several more years in BW ownership before being passed to Willow Wren.  The cabin extension was added at the Wilkinson's expense and I would have expected that they would have been required to remove it at the end of their lease period!

it would be interesting to know if Bawtry pops up on any gauging or traffic records in the very early 50s.

Paul

I have BAWTRY as being docked in December 1948, which fits in with it carrying the yellow and blue livery as depicted in the book, and it appears on an earlier fleet list dated 08 June 1948 as paired with USWORTH with T. Humphries as steerer. The next fleet list I have is dated 24 July 1949 where BAWTRY is unlisted and CHISWICK is paired with TAPLOW with J. Bray as steerer - so I think it will be in a period between these two fleet lists that the Wilkinsons operated CHISWICK and BAWTRY (the book makes note of 25 September 1948 as being a pivotal day). I then have BAWTRY as being out of service in late 1951 and in storage at Harefield by mid June 1952. On 14 November 1953 BAWTRY is listed as still being at Harefield and awaiting repair, and this was still the situation well into December.

My suspicion is that BAWTRY did not return to carrying service with 'British Waterways' once returned by the Wilkinson's as it still had its long cabin, so maintaining a reduced carrying capacity and making it undesirable to both the Company and their boatmen 

edit - page 28 states that their butty, complete with extra cabin, was ready in December (1948), and CHISWICK a few days later. Skimming through the book it looks like they lasted through to the summer of 1949, but as stated above CHISWICK was in the hands of another boatman by 24 July 1949. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by pete harrison

[X Alan W]

3 hours ago, pete harrison said:

REDSHANK (exREADING) and GREENSHANK (exBAWTRY) were purchased by Willow Wren Canal Carrying Company Ltd. in February 1954, and following docking entered service in June of the same year with Jack Skinner as steerer. In August 1955 REDSHANK and GREENSHANK attended a rally of boats at Banbury and were photographed quite extensively, and these photographs show GREENSHANK with a standard cabin - so I had surmised that the long cabin was removed whilst BAWTRY was being converted into GREENSHANK at W.H. Walker & Bros., Ltd., Rickmansworth in the spring of 1954, but as always I am happy to be corrected 

You are probably correct but I did not think it was as early as that Brain fade must be more advanced than I thought Joe did in fact remove an extension cabin from a butty acquired by WW the boats then were "tired "so names #/s  were not exactly stand out items & your records are much more precise than my ancient memory

Edited January 20, 2018 by X Alan W

[Athy]

34 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

In the plural vagaries in English it means something like "quirks" of course, but I always thought of Vagari having connotation of "wanderer"

Merci. Yes I'm familiar with the English word, but had never encountered it in French before.

[alan_fincher]

These photos are copyright of my brother Mike Fincher, but as I believe he has shared them before, I hope he'll not mind me posting them again.

These are in London, of course, but show the "Brown * Grey" livery on Greenshank.

For those interested, the other boat that appears is Union Canal Carriers "Birmingham"

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by alan_fincher

[David Mack]

17 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

For those interested, the other boat that appears is Union Canal Carriers "Birmingham"

Are you sure? The other boat is a Northwich and Birmingham is a Woolwich.

[alan_fincher]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Are you sure? The other boat is a Northwich and Birmingham is a Woolwich.

Sorry it's how I have worded it.

Birmingham (Large Woolwich)  appears in one photo on its own on the other side of the basin, (in UCCCo livery, similar to what it carries today).

Based on what Tam has said, I assume the Large Northewch motor paired with Greenshank (Bawtry) to be Redshank (Reading), but as it is not apparently lettered in any way, I suppose it could be something else.

( I wish one could still but a half hundredweight bag of smokeless fuel for 70p!).

 

 

[pete harrison]

6 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Based on what Tam has said, I assume the Large Northewch motor paired with Greenshank (Bawtry) to be Redshank (Reading), but as it is not apparently lettered in any way, I suppose it could be something else.

Definitely REDSHANK, which can be identified by the pigeon box sized porthole in place of the cabin top ('mushroom') vent 

[fittie]

 

In the first picture, the left wooden gunwale is missing from most of the cabin and part of the hold.

[Nightwatch]

Are they still selling 56lb bags of coal for .70p.? I'd like a few at that price please.

[jeannette smith harrison]

Tommy Humphries has on his wedding cert  Bawtry listed as his abode when he married his second wife  Ellen Ward in

aug 1944

His first wife being Grandads sister Harriett Harrison ,Alf their  son is still with us & is a treasure for information when i visit him

[pete harrison]

The G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. fleet list dated 14 September 1944 gives BAWTRY as paired with USWORTH under T. Humphries, and CANTLEY paired with LITCHFIELD (sic) under W. Ward  

[jeannette smith harrison]

Peter 

do you have any docking record for Ushworth for the feb of 1944 just under 6 months before the wedding cert date ?

Aunt Harriett died feb 1944 on Usworth as stated in her death cert & norm if a boating family member died the boat would be docked & the steerer given a changed boat .

I do have several records of this happening to other family members some did take back the boat after the 4/ 6 week period that was often used in the docking after a death,

The boat people where very superstitious & once the boat had been empty & the norm cleaning & fumigation when needed done

it was thought the persons spirit had left the boat & the boatman would then take the new wife  on board .

An early wedding soon after a loss of his wife does not mean he was heartless & did not miss his wife but  was often a necessity as the boatman would need a mate to help with the running of the boats & to look after his children

[pete harrison]

The earliest docking I have for USWORTH is December 1946, but it is unlikely that this would have been its first