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BMC Engine spewing white smoke...


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Dave rang again to say that the vendor says he took the alternator out of the boat himself without telling the broker - in order to have it worked on. A bit silly not telling anyone. They claim the vendor will have it back in place and all functioning by the weekend. and based on that verbal promise they've asked Dave for the deposit.

 

My gut reaction is that Dave shouldn't hand a penny over till he sees the engine running soundly - then, as Tony says, hand over the deposit on the proviso that the engine and electrics are sound in the surveyors eyes too. (Not to mention the hull, of course).

The broker has suggested Dave send the deposit as a cheque now, with an accompanying letter outlining the conditions.

 

 

Unfortunately I will be packing for the National next Thursday when Dave can next be off work so can not offer to have another look when the alternators been fixed, sorry about that.

 

This whole thing makes a song lyric come into my head - "and the band played believe it of you can"

 

Sorry Domenic, but brokers give me the pip. OK I know all are not the same and the lady at Hanbury was a bit fool a fool to herself but we have two branches of the same company apparently trying to strong arm purchaser into parting with their deposits. In this care the thing was described as a Narrowboat - not Houseboat so if its not capable of running without damage then that is a misdecription and as such the brokers should be thankful they have not been referred to "Consumer Direct" (not that they are any good). Instead of being contrite and withdrawing it from sale until fixed they try to extract money.

 

How come after they got what must have been clouds of steam did they not investigate and at least top the cooling system up and warn us about the alternator instead of having Dave pay for train fares from Lewis.

 

How come their dealing with the vendor did not show up a faulty alternator? Was it actually faulty or (as I suspect) was it a high output job that he wanted for his new boat or as a spare?

 

I had similar incompetence and half baked excuses from another broker perhaps 25 miles due east on two occasions .

 

I think Dave should tell them he has no intention of parting with any money until the boat can be presented as described and fit for purpose. He will risk loosing it, but that is a risk worth taking in my view.

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I Find it a little odd the broker didnt think to check what the problem was.

 

 

Wot - and get those nice blue logo shirts and ties dirty, let alone their hands!

 

They presumably have already sold the new boat so disposing of the old one is just a bind they can do without - especially as this one would not be to many people's taste.

 

We have seen it all on here before, there is one born every minute and if they think they have found that one it seems to me they will lie and cheat to complete the sale before someone with knowledge gets involved. I suspect they would quiet like the vendor to just take it away so they have the new boat commission and no other work.

 

I suspect that even Whilton might gulp a bit at this one's cosmetic appearance :lol:

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Wot - and get those nice blue logo shirts and ties dirty, let alone their hands!

 

They presumably have already sold the new boat so disposing of the old one is just a bind they can do without - especially as this one would not be to many people's taste.

 

We have seen it all on here before, there is one born every minute and if they think they have found that one it seems to me they will lie and cheat to complete the sale before someone with knowledge gets involved. I suspect they would quiet like the vendor to just take it away so they have the new boat commission and no other work.

 

I suspect that even Whilton might gulp a bit at this one's cosmetic appearance :lol:

 

Ours was worse! The key is the word "cosmetic". That's fixable and a great way of bartering the price down. It's non-cosmetic things like the engine perhaps being knackered that gets me edgey.

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I think Tony has done a fantastic job for you - what a hero!

 

I suggest strongly that your brother heeds his advice, and resists all pressure from the broker to part with any cash until it is obvious that this fiasco with the engine has done no lasting damage.

 

I don't think all brokers deserve a bad name, by any means, but some seem intent on working quite hard to earn one, don't they ?

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I think Tony has done a fantastic job for you - what a hero!

 

I suggest strongly that your brother heeds his advice, and resists all pressure from the broker to part with any cash until it is obvious that this fiasco with the engine has done no lasting damage.

 

I don't think all brokers deserve a bad name, by any means, but some seem intent on working quite hard to earn one, don't they ?

 

Dave's just had a chance to read this thread through for the first time. He's texted me to say it seems the general concensus is to hang on to his spondoolees! I hope he heeds that advice.

 

Thanks again Tony - and everyone, for your input. It might still work out with this boat for him. But it's very dependent on whether the vendor and the broker are going to do a dcent job of getting the arse-end of it in saleable condition.

 

Meanwhile, Dave can keep looking elsewhere.

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My comments below are slightly :lol: but this topic has provided a very interesting insight into the business practices of a nameless broker.

 

When we were looking for a boat five years ago we visited several well known brokers to look at boats and always came away disappointed because we found that the broker or broker's representative knew very little about the boat he was trying to sell us. After travelling 150 miles to see a boat we were told by the broker that its Gardner engine could not be started unless the owner was present - but a few carefully aimed questions soon revealed that the broker knew absolutely nothing about the engine and had probably thought up this excuse to hide the fact that he just did not know how to start it. We were also dismayed to find that some boats that we looked at were dirty or damp - one even had moldy food in the fridge. What makes this particularly awful is that our budget was considerably higher than the boat being discussed above and in our case the brokers stood to earn a significant amount of money if we bought from them.

 

Recently an old friend asked if Jane and I could look at boat that his son was thinking of buying from a well known local broker - it wasn't an expensive boat but we were quite disgusted by the condition in which it was presented. There were lots of problems but some obvious points could so easily have been dealt with - for example the toilet and shower tray were filthy and the fridge seals were covered in mould!

At the same time, we couldn't test the electrics or start the engine because the batteries were completely flat.

 

So what can we learn from this? Not all brokers are con-merchants looking for easy money but how do we sort out the good from the bad? What can be done to protect buyers?

Edited by NB Alnwick
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There is a fundamental problem. They don't want to sell boats but they have to. They can't be bothered spending some time ensuring that the boat is in a saleable state. Even used car salesmen want to maximise there profit by valeting the car from top to bottom.

 

So, do you really want to buy a used boat from some of these people?

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hello everyone,im one of the berks that went to see this boat with a built in engine room sauna,im wondering if any of you knowledgable people have any opinion on whether the engine would be knackered after mine and kevs little jaunt

 

 

thanks

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hello everyone,im one of the berks that went to see this boat with a built in engine room sauna,im wondering if any of you knowledgable people have any opinion on whether the engine would be knackered after mine and kevs little jaunt

 

 

thanks

Tony Brooks has seen it, and I think his years of experience are as good as anybody's in this matter.....

 

He said

 

The cylinder head is covered in "black". This makes it look as if the head has been "cooked" when the engine boiled but I think it is rubber dust from a failing alternator belt (of which there is no sign) but number 4 injector does have slightly heat discolouration on it. My view, having account of how the engine started and ran, in & out of gear, is that there is not a lot wrong with the engine BUT not being able to run it under load when hot makes this a speculative statement. The engine sounded fine for the short time we ran it.

 

Dave pressed me to advise him about purchasing the boat but I honestly can not. I advised that if he intended to make an offer then that offer must be conditional upon the alternator and engine electrics being sorted out and a satisfactory engine test taking place. I also told him to ensure the offer was subject to survey and the deposit would be returned in the event of the sale not taking place - all to be recorded on his receipt.

 

I can't see it is useful for anybody who has not seen it to speculate further on what might have happened to the engine. They can't possibly have a better stab at it than Tony already has had, surely ?

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Tony Brooks has seen it, and I think his years of experience are as good as anybody's in this matter.....

 

He said

 

 

 

I can't see it is useful for anybody who has not seen it to speculate further on what might have happened to the engine. They can't possibly have a better stab at it than Tony already has had, surely ?

 

 

i thought that there may be someone who has had a similar experience with an engine who could let me know if they had any problems with it after the event.

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i thought that there may be someone who has had a similar experience with an engine who could let me know if they had any problems with it after the event.

 

Well, I cooked a diesel once, long enough for it to start issuing black smoke as it started to sieze. I allowed it to cool, sorted the problem and it was then fine for many hundreds of hours after that. However, it could equally have gone BANG! a week later.

 

As Alan has said, Tony has actually seen and heard the engine and he knows his stuff better than most of us, so go with his invaluable judgment.

 

T :lol:

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i thought that there may be someone who has had a similar experience with an engine who could let me know if they had any problems with it after the event.

 

Yes. Not long after we had ourr engine rebuilt it ran dry because I hadn't fitted a hose properly. We had a stern full of steam for a while. Engine was fine afterwards.

 

But I don't know if that means this boat is OK. Ask for a compression test at their expense if you really want to know.

 

Bottom line is I'm not sure how risk-averse you are. Like to take a gamble? Buy the boat as is and hope.

 

Richard

 

I'd go and look for a different boat myself

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Yes. Not long after we had ourr engine rebuilt it ran dry because I hadn't fitted a hose properly. We had a stern full of steam for a while. Engine was fine afterwards.

 

But I don't know if that means this boat is OK. Ask for a compression test at their expense if you really want to know.

 

Bottom line is I'm not sure how risk-averse you are. Like to take a gamble? Buy the boat as is and hope.

 

Richard

 

I'd go and look for a different boat myself

 

is this something that a survey would answer?

Edited by drtbile
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Usual thing with an engine that has been seriously overheated is the head warps. This results in water and oil meeting and that may not happen until the lump is good and hot. That sort of damage only shows up with a bit of use and I suspect is what Tony had in mind when he would not pronounce upon the engine until it has been tested hot and under load and presumably then tested for water loss and oil contamination.

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The very minimum to do is change the thermostat and check all of the hoses. The coolant will also need to be changed and the water pump checked for bearing leakage.

 

As had been written before, this type of engine will blow its head gasket when it gets hot next time------or not.

 

I wish you well in this venture.

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Look, BMC engines are not exactly Swiss watches, but they are robust. My BMC got some serious boiling when I lent it out and the raw water intake got blocked but it's been none the worse for the experience. Fill it with water and check the oil, then take it out and Phylis it for a while 'till it's good and hot. If the levels are still good and the oil isn't contaminated it will most likely be fine. Get a quote for a head skim and argue it off the price.

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