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For some time now I have been trying to compile a Stewarts & Lloyds fleet list. I have gone through three sets of B.C.N. gauge registers all of which confirm the last 'new' boat gauged for them was B.C.N. 2289 on 11/08/1948 - fleet number 90 (this was in fact an old boat but was consistent with their numerical fleet list). After fleet number 90 / B.C.N. 2289 no new gaugings took place for Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. although several old gauge tables were altered to read them as the current operator but only a few of these recorded the change in fleet number. I know that Stewarts & Lloyds fleet numbers went up to at least 124 meaning at least 34 boats were added to their fleet between 11/08/1948 and the fleet disposal in 1976.

 

Now for the big question:- did anybody go to Coombeswood during the 1960's / early 1970's and record what was there, with the details including both the fleet number and gauge plate number ? Alternatively does anybody know where this information may be available from ?

 

This is particularly frustrating as I went there several times during the the early 1970's and was even involved in moving out several boats in 1976 after they had been sold (I was a teenager back then without the level of interest I have now - I know, no excuse)

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I am not sure if it is what you are looking for but Malcolm Braine has recently given me a load of paperwork which he has his secretary type out, copied from somewhere back in the 60s/70s.

 

Now I am not entirely sure what it shows but does appear to have some info on both fleet numbers and gauging numbers. There are a few hundred (edit: possibly thousand!) pages in total showing all the different carriers on the BCN but 7 of them are for S&L.

 

Edit: Just looked again R.e. boat 90. On this sheet it reads as follows. 2289 (90) O.I 11.8.48.

 

There is also one after it which is 2290 (85) O.W 11.8.48

 

I will ask Malcolm exactly what they mean. If they might be of interest to you, let me know.

 

Mark

Edited by Satellite
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I am not sure if it is what you are looking for but Malcolm Braine has recently given me a load of paperwork which he has his secretary type out, copied from somewhere back in the 60s/70s.

 

Now I am not entirely sure what it shows but does appear to have some info on both fleet numbers and gauging numbers. There are a few hundred (edit: possibly thousand!) pages in total showing all the different carriers on the BCN but 7 of them are for S&L.

 

Edit: Just looked again R.e. boat 90. On this sheet it reads as follows. 2289 (90) O.I 11.8.48.

 

There is also one after it which is 2290 (85) O.W 11.8.48

 

I will ask Malcolm exactly what they mean. If they might be of interest to you, let me know.

 

Mark

 

The details you have quoted look very much like a transcript of the B.C.N. tables, the four figure number being the gauge number, the number in brackets being the fleet number, O.I. being open iron (O.W. being open wood) and then the gauge date. Perhaps they have been compiled in fleets for ease of use. If the 7 pages contain Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. gauge / fleet numbers greater than 90 then yes I am very interested. I am aware that sometimes boats were taken over from other carriers and did not have their fleet numbers altered, this clearly makes things more miss-leading and awkward to sought out.

 

I have studied three sets of B.C.N. gauge registers (which took a couple of years) and entered them all into a Microsoft Access database so I am able to pull out any detail I want, including quickly creating fleet lists. The great problem with B.C.N. Registers is different versions of the same register contain different information and this is how I have found some of the Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. fleet numbers and their relevant gauge numbers above 90.

 

Malcolm does know me so feel free to mention my name.

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The details you have quoted look very much like a transcript of the B.C.N. tables, the four figure number being the gauge number, the number in brackets being the fleet number, O.I. being open iron (O.W. being open wood) and then the gauge date. Perhaps they have been compiled in fleets for ease of use. If the 7 pages contain Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. gauge / fleet numbers greater than 90 then yes I am very interested. I am aware that sometimes boats were taken over from other carriers and did not have their fleet numbers altered, this clearly makes things more miss-leading and awkward to sought out.

 

I have studied three sets of B.C.N. gauge registers (which took a couple of years) and entered them all into a Microsoft Access database so I am able to pull out any detail I want, including quickly creating fleet lists. The great problem with B.C.N. Registers is different versions of the same register contain different information and this is how I have found some of the Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. fleet numbers and their relevant gauge numbers above 90.

 

Malcolm does know me so feel free to mention my name.

 

If you do get anymore information I would be very glad to hear it. I have the bow section of S & L fleet number 107 for thirty years and have been trying to obtain the BCN number for it without sucess. I have contacted the BCN society and the info from them was as above "beyond () there are no records"

 

Alan

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If you do get anymore information I would be very glad to hear it. I have the bow section of S & L fleet number 107 for thirty years and have been trying to obtain the BCN number for it without sucess. I have contacted the BCN society and the info from them was as above "beyond () there are no records"

 

Alan

 

I do not yet have any details on Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. No. 107.

 

I do however have quite a bit of other information that I can draw on. If you would like to share what you know about PRISTON then we'll see where it goes, and two people searching has got to be better than one ! (i.e. do you know what happened to the original stern end of your boat, which I am assuming is iron and I can already see that PRISTON was in service by 1981 by your B.W.B. index number).

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I do not yet have any details on Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. No. 107.

 

I do however have quite a bit of other information that I can draw on. If you would like to share what you know about PRISTON then we'll see where it goes, and two people searching has got to be better than one ! (i.e. do you know what happened to the original stern end of your boat, which I am assuming is iron and I can already see that PRISTON was in service by 1981 by your B.W.B. index number).

Stern end of 107 fitted with a counter by Black Country Boats. then operating from dry dock in Wolverhanpton at Horseley Fields. I dont know what happened to her thereafter.

 

I am currently cruising so records not to hand apart from last mail from Ivor Chambers of BCN Society which was as follows

"Alan,

With reference to your E Mail to Graham Whorton about your ex Stewarts and Lloyds Joey boat fleet number 107.

I have spent some considerable amount of time going through the BCN registers which we hold, but unfortunately, I have not been able to trace this fleet number.

Therefore in my opinion there are two possible reasons for this:-

I have located boats with fleet numbers 81 to 90 these were gauged on various dates through out 1948; AS far as I can from the registers no other Stewart and Lloyds were gauged after these, boats were no longer gauged after 1962/63.

Therefore possible your boat was never gauged because it was put into service after the finish of gauging of boats or alternatively Stewarts and Lloyds brought your boat second hand off a different carrier, who had it gauged under their own name.

I have spoken to different people involved in the ownership of Stewarts and Lloyd’s tugs/boats and old employees of the company, but with no luck turning up a complete fleet list."

 

Will contact when stopped floating!

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Stern end of 107 fitted with a counter by Black Country Boats. then operating from dry dock in Wolverhanpton at Horseley Fields. I dont know what happened to her thereafter.

 

I am currently cruising so records not to hand apart from last mail from Ivor Chambers of BCN Society which was as follows

"Alan,

With reference to your E Mail to Graham Whorton about your ex Stewarts and Lloyds Joey boat fleet number 107.

I have spent some considerable amount of time going through the BCN registers which we hold, but unfortunately, I have not been able to trace this fleet number.

Therefore in my opinion there are two possible reasons for this:-

I have located boats with fleet numbers 81 to 90 these were gauged on various dates through out 1948; AS far as I can from the registers no other Stewart and Lloyds were gauged after these, boats were no longer gauged after 1962/63.

Therefore possible your boat was never gauged because it was put into service after the finish of gauging of boats or alternatively Stewarts and Lloyds brought your boat second hand off a different carrier, who had it gauged under their own name.

I have spoken to different people involved in the ownership of Stewarts and Lloyd’s tugs/boats and old employees of the company, but with no luck turning up a complete fleet list."

 

Will contact when stopped floating!

 

"or alternatively Stewarts and Lloyds brought your boat second hand off a different carrier, who had it gauged under their own name"

 

This is what almost certainly happened with any boat that S. & L. Ltd. acquired after 1947 (and many prior to 1947), with S. & L. Ltd. name being added to the boats old gauge table but not always the new fleet number. As I have a very comprehensive B.C.N. gauge register database I am able to compile a credible fleet list very quickly, so I do have your gauge number it is just a case of working out which one !

 

I suggest you PM me with your boat details, or an e-mail address as and when.

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"or alternatively Stewarts and Lloyds brought your boat second hand off a different carrier, who had it gauged under their own name"

 

This is what almost certainly happened with any boat that S. & L. Ltd. acquired after 1947 (and many prior to 1947), with S. & L. Ltd. name being added to the boats old gauge table but not always the new fleet number. As I have a very comprehensive B.C.N. gauge register database I am able to compile a credible fleet list very quickly, so I do have your gauge number it is just a case of working out which one !

 

I suggest you PM me with your boat details, or an e-mail address as and when.

I wonder if there is anything useful in the Stewarts and Lloyds archives?

 

Link

 

I suppose a dock book would be too much to hope for?

 

Paul H

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I wonder if there is anything useful in the Stewarts and Lloyds archives?

 

Link

 

I suppose a dock book would be too much to hope for?

 

Paul H

 

Cheers Paul.

 

I have just spoken with the holders of the Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. archives and I shall (at some point) pay them a visit, although they didn't seem to hold much hope of detailed boat information.

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I do recall that when I purchased 107 from British Steel (as S & L where by then) I discussed the matter with their Accountant who had entries in his plant register of all the boats currently in the fleet. I recall that 107 had been purchased from a third party, I think a coal merchant and it might have been in the 40's or 50's.

 

The plant register is a document listing all the capital assets of the company with details of the price and date purchased. I should have taken the details BUT....

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  • 2 weeks later...
I wonder if there is anything useful in the Stewarts and Lloyds archives?

 

Link

 

I suppose a dock book would be too much to hope for?

 

Paul H

 

I'm afraid a dock book or plant register was too much to hope for. I spent several hours yesterday at Dudley Archives and Local History Centre, Coseley but this is not the home of the hoped for Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. archive. What they had was about 200 / 300 Stewarts & Lloyds Ltd. documents donated by ? in 1998 that included various committee minutes, various letters, various tube specification, a few publications e.t.c. but nothing at all about their boats. There were some other documents about other local canal users (especially N. Hingley & Sons Ltd. and their subsiduary company's) but nothing really specific to individual boats. The only thing of interest I found was the date when the B.C.N. Company started their tug service through Gorsty Hill tunnel (and for anybody interested it was 09 February 1914).

 

The search continues.

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  • 8 years later...
On 6 May 2009 at 17:16, Priston said:

I do recall that when I purchased 107 from British Steel (as S & L where by then) I discussed the matter with their Accountant who had entries in his plant register of all the boats currently in the fleet. I recall that 107 had been purchased from a third party, I think a coal merchant and it might have been in the 40's or 50's.

 

The plant register is a document listing all the capital assets of the company with details of the price and date purchased. I should have taken the details BUT....

Hi there Alan I've been reading through this thread an wondered if any info ever did come up around steward and lloyds boat 107. As I believe I have your ok boat priston. I bought her about six months ago from braunston Marina and am in the middle of a complete refurb. Like you (by the looks of this thread) Iam trying to find out more info. All I was told was she's the front half of a bantock Joey and that was it no other info. I've been in touch with Richard booth (the chap involved with historic working boats today) and updated his records. He today emailed me and mentions Stewart and lloyds which brings me here. Any info you have would be greatly recived. Thanks. Darren 

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If I recall Stewart's & Lloyds did allocate plant numbers to wagons and locomotives, which were white plastic and glued on. Whether it applied to boats, cannot say, but it is possible that records were kept and passed down to an archive or into private ownership.

Has it been established if all these post 1948 craft were open boats?

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6 hours ago, Heartland said:

If I recall Stewart's & Lloyds did allocate plant numbers to wagons and locomotives, which were white plastic and glued on. Whether it applied to boats, cannot say, but it is possible that records were kept and passed down to an archive or into private ownership.

Has it been established if all these post 1948 craft were open boats?

Not sure about the other boats been open but I have the fleet number (107) for my boat but haven't found a archived fleet list as of yet. 

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25 minutes ago, Darrenroberts said:

Not sure about the other boats been open but I have the fleet number (107) for my boat but haven't found a archived fleet list as of yet

I hope you find one as I have been looking for any sort of S. & L. Ltd. list where post 1948 fleet numbers and B.C.N. gauge numbers can be linked together for the past thirty years or so. I did once find an enthusiast who had visited Coombeswood in the late 1960's and early 1970's and made lists, but he would not share these with me - knowledge is power after all :captain: 

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