Que Sera Sera

[Ex- Member]

Out of interest how would this boat be transported abroad! Is there that many going across on lorries this time of year or perhaps sailing across probably not an unusual event and would not raise any interest! Are our police that inept that they could not check all this out quite quickly or is it that easy to smuggle a narrowboat out of the country?

 

Boats are quite of taken to France by lorry for people wanting to go there cruising on the French canals, it's no more than a long load, and not a problem for ferries.

 

They would disguise the boat prior to this though. If its the kind of outfit i think it is, they can do things very quickly indeed, repaint and even change features.

 

Police and customs at ports might be informed, but the amount of info for stuff to watchout for in ports, it's easily lost in the piles of paperwork, they are more interested in drugs and the like. Some astute officer might take on board the info, but in reality with what they have to deal with, they aren't going to be putting themselves out. Bear in mind they could have moved it there prior to the hire period ending.

 

I would say it's possibly gone there or going there in the future, but changing the boats identity and selling it here would be less risky. I would say it's still in this country though.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Julynian

[T.A]

I'm saying nothing!

 

UK geography, (and history!), are hardly strong-points of mine.

 

When boating last year and moored near "Bosworth", we both commented how strange that the canal guides made no mention of the very famous battle that took place at Bosworth.

 

Eventually it occurred to us that we were near Husband's Bosworth, not Market Bosworth. (Wrong canal entirely. )

 

It's hard to see how anybody could have arranged the sale of Kalzar from Australia, but I guess the owners of that mobile might well have been international roaming with it in the UK.

 

 

 

The Chinese built ones, at least, are brought in mostly in containers, so don't look much like narrow boats.

They bring them over in a standard container 44ft so with the longer ones come in 2 pieces so they would have had to cut this one in to 2 pieces!

 

I don't know how Polish ones are moved, but it may be the same.

 

This boat could have been being craned and transported before it was reported to stolen to anybody, so such operations would have aroused no suspicions.

 

Interest maybe.

 

The guy who bought my first boat arranged to have it craned out over the public highway at Berkhamsted Station. He picked rush hour, and caused some considerable congestion. The police came, looked bemused, deposited a few cones, then drove off again, despite the fact that the pads on the crane had already punched 6" deep holes in the pavement by then. So lots of people saw it, but nobody challenged it. I suspect you could repeat it now, with no more challenge.

 

 

Boats are quite of taken to France by lorry for people wanting to go there cruising on the French canals, it's no more than a long load, and not a problem for ferries.

 

Yes I know but that would involve paperwork false passports etc much more risky! How many boats have gone out the country in the last few months is it too many to check and therefore rule this option out!

 

They would disguise the boat prior to this though. If its the kind of outfit i think it is, they can do things very quickly indeed, repaint and even change features.

 

So if this outfit is skilled in this operation would the customs not be taking interest in boats being transported?

 

Police and customs at ports might be informed, but the amount of info for stuff to watchout for in ports, it's easily lost in the piles of paperwork, they are more interested in drugs and the like. Some astute officer might take on board the info, but in reality with what they have to deal with, they aren't going to be putting themselves out. Bear in mind they could have moved it there prior to the hire period ending.

 

I would say it's possibly gone there or going there in the future, but changing the boats identity and selling it here would be less risky. I would say it's still in this country though.

[Ex- Member]

Yes I know but that would involve paperwork false passports etc much more risky! How many boats have gone out the country in the last few months is it too many to check and therefore rule this option out!

 

No it wouldn't they could legitimately hire a transport company and pay in cash, so no paper trail. You only need a driver to move a boat he would be legitimate. They could use an associate dodgy company who would say if cought they had no idea who hired them, just told to take the boat to x address and paid in cash.

 

So if this outfit is skilled in this operation would the customs not be taking interest in boats being transported?

 

As I said not if transported during the weeks hire. If it wasn't transported to France in the first week, then it will be in the U.K

 

This type of outfit aren't stupid, they know how to get around these things either with legitimate deals or using false or stolen id. That's why I asked if the boat was paid in cash. These thieves will spend thier own money to obtain goods worth 50k Although prefer not to.

 

I'm not saying this has definitely happened, but from the info I can glean this is a typicel MO for obtaining valuable goods like cars boats and plant.

[Dominic M]

The Chinese built ones, at least, are brought in mostly in containers, so don't look much like narrow boats.

They're not in containers, Alan. That's just the way they look anyway.

 

No it wouldn't they could legitimately hire a transport company and pay in cash, so no paper trail. You only need a driver to move a boat he would be legitimate. They could use an associate dodgy company who would say if cought they had no idea who hired them, just told to take the boat to x address and paid in cash.

 

 

 

As I said not if transported during the weeks hire. If it wasn't transported to France in the first week, then it will be in the U.K

 

This type of outfit aren't stupid, they know how to get around these things either with legitimate deals or using false or stolen id. That's why I asked if the boat was paid in cash. These thieves will spend thier own money to obtain goods worth 50k Although prefer not to.

 

I'm not saying this has definitely happened, but from the info I can glean this is a typicel MO for obtaining valuable goods like cars boats and plant.

You need all the boat's paperwork to do that. The French customs are very hot on that sort of thing. It will need its CE mark for one (which we know it apparently doesn't have - there is no CIN No.). There will need to be firm proof that VAT was paid in one EU member state when it was purchased. And I really cannot accept that it was craned out somewhere on the sly. It is simply not very easy to do. Whre did the crane come from? They are not exactly two a penny. And if it really was, then expect it to be in some agricultural shed now let out as an industrial unit somewhere.

[Tiny]

Going back to the original theft from that Marina - the neather reaches of the BCN is only 3 easy days travel away. That is where Holly got its repaint but there was enough distnct about her to be noticed even in new colours. Even so she then chugged down to the far end of the Oxford before finally noticed. This meant she travelled down some of the most used canals but wasn't noticed.

 

Now this boat is much less uniquely noticable than Holly so once she is painted - and maybe given a false (or with BW a pre-ordered legal) license number she could be anywhere on the system - either up for sale, sold to some unknowing person, or just used by those who now 'own' her. )

 

And, given the timescale we are trying to spot - on waterway or in marina - a boat which looks totally unlike the original (except for hull details). And this boat could be anywhere on the system from the Fens to Wales, from Bristol to Rippon.

[Ex- Member]

You need all the boat's paperwork to do that. The French customs are very hot on that sort of thing. It will need its CE mark for one (which we know it apparently doesn't have - there is no CIN No.). There will need to be firm proof that VAT was paid in one EU member state when it was purchased

 

Hi Dom well hopefully that's the case then it will still be in this country possibly, although the CIN No. I thought had to be produced to gain a french waterways licence and not to do with customs or access to the country. The boat could be going to France for a fit out for example, or gaining that certificate in France.

 

 

And I really cannot accept that it was craned out somewhere on the sly. It is simply not very easy to do. Whre did the crane come from? They are not exactly two a penny. And if it really was, then expect it to be in some agricultural shed now let out as an industrial unit somewhere.

 

 

It's not difficult to crane a boat out of the water or find a spot to doi it. It would attract attention agreed but done in the first days of hire in a discreet location easily doable. Even if someone saw the craning they would assume nothing wrong IMO It would need pre preparation/planning though to be undertaken quickly and efficiently. that's why the contact details and terms of the deal is important, How much time did they have to plan?

 

I did read someone saw the boat on day 2 of the hire, however You have to bear in mind also, with all the people on this forum and other forums, than no one has reported seeing this boat, I find that quite compelling given the amount of members so widly spread.

 

The craning out could have been very quick if all set up prepared and ready, not many people might have seen it, and it would need one of those few to be a forum member for us to know about it.

 

My hunch is this theft has been undertaken by professional thieves who usually target heavy plant and machinery. They operate country wide and even Europe.

 

There’s no demand for plant, you cant even sell it at half it’s true value what with the construction industry suffering as it is. Like any business thieves will diversify. Boats are more difficult to nick than plant, however can be very profitable with a quick return, and these people like to keep working like most of us.

 

From what little info gleaned, the MO mostly fits.

 

 

Easy diversification.

 

 

Plant thieves have the equipment to crane and move boats, low loaders etc.

 

Also have the equipment to paint spray and weld.

 

Know the road network, and operate nation wide.

 

Will have access to land, buildings etc most likely remote.

 

Can plan quickly with all the above.

 

Forged stolen documents easily obtainable in their world.

 

2 Muscular gentlemen spotted on boat, possibly building trade.

 

All they need is good access to a boat. Hiring one is the obvious way of doing this and gives them plenty of time to arrange removal.

 

The only thing that puts me off this hunch is the Audi TT they wouldn’t use such a nice valuable car in this scenario weather legit or stolen. If this car was present at the deal. Legit it can be traced, they wouldn’t do that. Stolen is a risk of getting caught with expensive car which would normally be garaged ringed and sold on.

 

Or maybe this car wasn’t present at the original hire deal but seen later, therefore an error on the thieves part and a good lead.

 

In addition the fact that this site exists and info has been put on other sites, if the thieves get wind of this, the boat might be stashed somewhere for a decent period of time until they assess the heat is off as it’s likely someone will spot it and recognise it by it’s interior or any unique features they haven’t changed.

 

This is my Opinion for what it's worth and an avenue worth pursuing, but info needed.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Julynian

[carlt]

Has any forum member seen the other "Que Sera Sera" in the area. btw?

[alan_fincher]

Has any forum member seen the other "Que Sera Sera" in the area. btw?

I think I can probably guess the answer to that question.

[Gibbo]

Someone is going to have to say this sooner or later. And as I get yelled at anyway it might as well be me.

 

There has been an awful lot of misinformation in this matter. Much more than usual. If I was a Police officer I'd be having a very careful look at where all this misinformation has come from. Because from what I see it has all come from the same place.

 

Gibbo

Edited March 29, 2009 by Gibbo

[Nightwatch]

What on earth do you mean? Gibbo.

 

I think you are saying what I think but can't say. Been here before I believe.

 

Waiting for the flack from Zoe.

[alan_fincher]

They're not in containers, Alan. That's just the way they look anyway.

;)

 

 

I was reluctant even to mention container transport, knowing the claimed lengths of Que Sera Sera, (all three of them :lol: )

 

I've heard two answers to the how do they get the longer Chinese Boats here question, one of which is as T.A. suggests, the other of which was "that's nonsense, you can get containers to handle the longer length". Anybody know for certain, as it seems unlikely they are joined back together at the brokerages selling them, doesn't it!

[carlt]

They are telescopic and, when they arrive at the brokerage, they are winched apart, to the required length then they click, into position.

[alan_fincher]

They are telescopic and, when they arrive at the brokerage, they are winched apart, to the required length then they click, into position.

I thought you were going to tell us that the join point is the indented inset steps for clambering out of the water that Phylis was insisting all NBs should have as part of their design.

[Ex- Member]

2 40f/t containers would suffice, just 1 cut LOL

Edited March 29, 2009 by Julynian

[nick the boats]

Just a quick one on crane hire, our local company will do a cheaper cash deal, its normally later in the day when the crane is returning from a proper job, without the office or bosses knowing.

Two men and a 50 ton crane paid cash, What boat?

[Athy]

The above poster's name is very suspicious!

[NB Alnwick]

The above poster's name is very suspicious!

 

Perhaps he should have posted it on the morning of the first day of next month!

 

Seriously though, all of this gives me a very uneasy feeling. It seems that it is rather easier to steal a narrow boat than any of us thought. It looks to me as if an organised gang with a crane, a gas axe, a yard where they can work and some heavy equipment would be quite capable of stealing a boat, reducing it to a container load of scrap and exporting it before anyone knew there anything amiss.

 

I hope it isn't as easy as that - I am so glad that we have a replica steel boat that is really made of secondhand plywood and toxic plastics . . .

[Rogerh]

Meant to put this in the other thread, have now done so if the Mods want delete it, feel free

 

Walked the Welford Arm and all around Foxton today with no luck. I gave one of the posters to the lockies at Foxton, who said they will keep an eye out for the boat.

 

Nice day for it, Foxton was heaving with gongoozlers.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Rogerh

[Hairy-Neil]

And this boat could be anywhere on the system from the Fens to Wales, from Bristol to Rippon.

 

Unlikely to be on the Lincolnshire fens as they have been on winter levels. Cambridgeshire fens unlikely too, hasn't there been a stoppage on Oundle Lock? And passage to the Ouse would be impossible as Salters Lode lock has been shut for months.....

[ditchcrawler]

Perhaps he should have posted it on the morning of the first day of next month!

 

snipped

 

I hope it isn't as easy as that - I am so glad that we have a replica steel boat that is really made of secondhand plywood and toxic plastics . . .

I thought that was just your wheelbarrow

[Hobbler]

Perhaps he should have posted it on the morning of the first day of next month!

 

Seriously though, all of this gives me a very uneasy feeling. It seems that it is rather easier to steal a narrow boat than any of us thought. It looks to me as if an organised gang with a crane, a gas axe, a yard where they can work and some heavy equipment would be quite capable of stealing a boat, reducing it to a container load of scrap and exporting it before anyone knew there anything amiss.

 

I hope it isn't as easy as that - I am so glad that we have a replica steel boat that is really made of secondhand plywood and toxic plastics . . .

 

The only problem with that theory is that as the bottom has dropped out of the scrap market due to the credit crunch would it worth anyones while to go to all that effort for not a huge amount of metal and small cash reward.

[NB Alnwick]

The only problem with that theory is that as the bottom has dropped out of the scrap market due to the credit crunch would it worth anyones while to go to all that effort for not a huge amount of metal and small cash reward.

 

People still burgle Post Offices and, due to the enhanced security, they rarely get away with much more than a £1,000 in mixed notes, stamps and postal orders - the latter being traceable . . .

 

It always amazes me just how much effort some members of the criminal fraternity will make to achieve very little. They would certainly earn more if they put as much effort into an honest business.

[Lady Muck]

Perhaps he should have posted it on the morning of the first day of next month!

 

Seriously though, all of this gives me a very uneasy feeling. It seems that it is rather easier to steal a narrow boat than any of us thought. It looks to me as if an organised gang with a crane, a gas axe, a yard where they can work and some heavy equipment would be quite capable of stealing a boat, reducing it to a container load of scrap and exporting it before anyone knew there anything amiss.

 

I hope it isn't as easy as that - I am so glad that we have a replica steel boat that is really made of secondhand plywood and toxic plastics . . .

 

Someone stole a boat on our river last year and even though it was only painted a different colour and had the index number removed and only moved about five miles it didn't get recovered for about eight months.

 

The thief erm I meant new owner was even persued by BW for boat safety certificate and license, despite them knowing about the stolen boat!

 

So nothing surprises me anymore.

[GUMPY]

Cash is king

When I moved Parglena south the crane at the northern end was paid cash they just turned up and did the job

The same for the Trucking company No recipts just job done.

If you can find a location, and there are many, its a real easy job to remove a boat from the system.......................

 

Besides which a week boating could put you 350-400 lock miles from your starting point with no bother at all.

Even one day could be 50-60 lock miles.

 

J

[johnjo]

I know I said I felt I was wasting my time, [or words to that effect], but this theft has got to me mainly because if it was my boat I just couldn't give up, and as such here I am again, but it beggars belief that this boat has not been positively sited ANYWHERE on the system despite it having been 'lost' for 3 weeks now, and there is still [last time I looked] nothing on the 'Stolen Boats' site re: QSS. As I understand it only the police or the insurance company can ask to have details posted, so even if the insurance are not responsible for a claim surely they could at least help with that, even so the police should have requested that long ago, so why not?

Anyway if it has been craned out of the system then several things spring to mind,

[1] Presumably this would need a fairly large crane to do it and it should be possible for someone to work out how big and who has one that big and ask if they've not only just completed a job recently in the area, but have also been asked to do one that they declined or couldn't do.

[2] Any such load would presumably have to use the motorway network at some point so could the police not request a search of the camera footage for motorways running anywhere near the canal where this boat disappeared and bear in mind that once on a lorry it could have been covered by a tarpaulin 'to protect it.

[3]It has to be assumed that if that was the original intention then it would have happened within a 2 or 3 days at the most, that would give them time to get a reasonable distance from the hiring point and still leave enough time for memories to fade and for them disappear.

They would by now have hidden the spoils in say a farm shed or factory unit where they would then have time to change her appearance and to allow sufficient time for it to be safe to sell her. If that is the case then I only hope that if someone does look to buy her they have a damn good surveyer who will hopefully spot any deliberate changes, and look for any registation ID's and become suspicious enough to inform the buyers and the police.

The apparent lack of PC availability to the owners is becoming a concern also, surely it doesn't take that much effort to sit down with someone who is PC literate and put down everything you have regarding the circumstances of the theft of your boat and then get it posted to as many places as possible on the net, in this area I feel that they have let a vital option slip past. I know their daughter has done 'some' posting but they must know someone else as well surely.

It's now 21:30 and we have had nothing from the owners or their daughter today, I assume they have been out looking and that tomorrow they will post an update, let's hope so.

Call me naive, but I still want to believe that this boat has been stolen and that we haven't all been given the run around by a stupid and inept attempt at an insurance scam.

Edited March 29, 2009 by johnjo