Heating system - which?

[Woollymishka]

Hi everyone

I have spent umpteen hours trawling through various posts in relation to various boat heating systems - very illuminating but ****** - and really value having some comments as to your thoughts, feelings etc about the best (if there is one?) boat heating system eg. webasto versus eberspacher versus huuricane versus alde. I would prefer to be gas free but could change my mind (though costs may be influential)

Is this a topic where I might be more confused than before I ask myself?

Cheers

Tim

[bridgit]

Hi everyone

I have spent umpteen hours trawling through various posts in relation to various boat heating systems - very illuminating but ****** - and really value having some comments as to your thoughts, feelings etc about the best (if there is one?) boat heating system eg. webasto versus eberspacher versus huuricane versus alde. I would prefer to be gas free but could change my mind (though costs may be influential)

Is this a topic where I might be more confused than before I ask myself?

Cheers

Tim

You forgot a back boiler on the solid fuel stove with rads or big copper pipes

[Boaty Jo]

Depends on your budget.

If I was starting again and had the cash it would be a dedicated pressure-jet diesel boiler like the Kabola.

[bridgit]

On our first boat we had a diesel coupled up to rads. Worked o.k. On our second boat had gas cental heating, mega money so swopped it for eberspacher. These work fine until they pack up on the coldest day of the year. On our third boat we have solid fuel with copper pipes running length of boat. Will stick with this system. No pumps to go wrong and no cold spots.

[canalchris]

I suspect that you may get a lot of replies on this topic. we run a webasto c top with two radiators and a towel rail. we run this approx twice per day for an hour or so just to give us hot water morning and evening. the main way of keeping warm is from the coal stove. this is only a small one but even on tickover it is more than enough tto keep the living ,kitchen, and bedroom area nice and snug. the calorifier has an immersion heater which we use very rarely, and of course the best way for hot water is cruising. fortunately we are hooked up to the mains ,but use a honda 2kw generator when out and about.

[MikeV]

If you want to be "gas free" then you also will have to give some serious thought to the alternative method of heat for cooking. Gas cooking is by far the simplest and cheapest to install.

 

On the heating, it depends in part how you are using the boat. If you are a livaboard then you definitely should have a multifuel stove and I would go for diesel heating. While all of the heaters seem to have their problems, Webasto is very common and parts are readily available. As you'll read on this forum, you can do some of the maintenance yourself if you're mechanically competent. They are also very compact.

 

If you are not livaboard and mostly going to use the boat during the better weather then a stove is not essential, but nice to have. I'd go for gas and an Alde for hot water and heating myself. OwnerShips, the shared ownership fleet, fit them (over 100 and growing) and they have very few problems. They are not very suitable for continuous heating if moored for long periods in cold weather however, as they will consume a gas cylinder every 2-3 days. For a quick burst of heat on a chilly morning, or to complement a stove they are fine.

 

If you don't want gas, then Webasto should be fine as the low usage should avoid the many problems that people experience when using them for winter heating.

 

Other opinions will follow no doubt!!

[mrsmelly]

Hi everyone

I have spent umpteen hours trawling through various posts in relation to various boat heating systems - very illuminating but ****** - and really value having some comments as to your thoughts, feelings etc about the best (if there is one?) boat heating system eg. webasto versus eberspacher versus huuricane versus alde. I would prefer to be gas free but could change my mind (though costs may be influential)

Is this a topic where I might be more confused than before I ask myself?

Cheers

Tim

Why gas free its the best by far for cooking and totaly safe.........How many hundreds of narrowboaters have been injured or killed by gas

[Woollymishka]

Hi

Thanks for the responses to date - very helpful.

I need to apologise a wee bit I think - when I said gas free - I meant heating system (gas free) not cooking -it was a bit early for me writing the original email - brain not yet in gear then!

tim

[dor]

I would echo MikeV's response. The new Alde 3010 is reasonably efficient and very reliable. We do have a solid fuel stove which is used for most of our heating, but being able to top up hot waater and warm up the cabin & bathroom in the morning at the touch of a button is very useful.

[Mac49]

If you want a Webasto/Erberspacher i'd concided getting a separate Kerosene tank fitted. The bloke who fitted mine said he wouldn't recommend fitting one for frequent use otherwise. The tank for my Webasto is about 80ltrs and was fitted after the boat had been built and wasn't too difficult really. I've only had mine about 6 months, but my dad knows someone who's being running his erberspacher on kerosene for several years without a problem.

Rick

[BlueStringPudding]

If you want a Webasto/Erberspacher i'd concided getting a separate Kerosene tank fitted. The bloke who fitted mine said he wouldn't recommend fitting one for frequent use otherwise. The tank for my Webasto is about 80ltrs and was fitted after the boat had been built and wasn't too difficult really. I've only had mine about 6 months, but my dad knows someone who's being running his erberspacher on kerosene for several years without a problem.

Rick

 

 

So give me an idea of what retro-fitting a kerosene tank would cost, including the necessary pipes and filters, if you can? And where do you buy kerosene from?

 

Sounds like a good idea if it doesn't cost squillions of pounds.

[Mac49]

So give me an idea of what retro-fitting a kerosene tank would cost, including the necessary pipes and filters, if you can? And where do you buy kerosene from?

 

Sounds like a good idea if it doesn't cost squillions of pounds.

 

I had my tank and boiler fitted at the same time so there wouldn't have been any extra labour cost, I suppose it makes no difference to him which tank he connects the boiler to, there's just an extra filler and breather to buy. Also I did quite alot of the easy jobs to save on time (drilling holes, mounting the tank, fitting filler caps etc) i've a feeling the tank wasn't cheap at something like £100-120 but if it saves on servicing costs for the boiler I think it'll be worth it. Also if you do have one made, read up on the BSS for fuel tanks because there were a couple of points I had to raise (pressure testing etc). I'll see if i've a pic of how mine's fitted.

Rick

 

sorry not the best photo of it, the engine room wasn't fit out at this stage which made it a bit easier. The tank is the grey box bottom left.

Also I can get kerosene from heating oil suppliers, they let me go and fill a jerry can, or the local boat yard has it sometimes. I'm in Lancashire and i've been told it's easier to get up here, but I don't know how true that is.

 

Edit to add last bit and photo.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Mac49

[kayDee]

I would echo MikeV's response. The new Alde 3010 is reasonably efficient and very reliable. We do have a solid fuel stove which is used for most of our heating, but being able to top up hot waater and warm up the cabin & bathroom in the morning at the touch of a button is very useful.

 

We have the same as yourselves and the mixture of the two are fantastic. Its a system we're really happy with.

Well, when I say 'mixture' - I mean we have the option of one or the other or both if we get desperate!

Kay

x

[Driffman]

As previously stated, Kabola pressure jet.

 

Not cheap but very reliable and I have been running mine on gas oil for over 4 years with no problems, so no need for seperate fuel tanks.

[sueb]

As previously stated, Kabola pressure jet.

 

Not cheap but very reliable and I have been running mine on gas oil for over 4 years with no problems, so no need for seperate fuel tanks.

Solid fuel every time. You can always get fuel and they are easy to run. It's lovely watching the flames.

Sue

[Roger Gunkel]

Solid fuel every time. You can always get fuel and they are easy to run. It's lovely watching the flames.

Sue

 

 

Agreed

 

Roger

[Phil Ambrose]

Hi everyone

I have spent umpteen hours trawling through various posts in relation to various boat heating systems - very illuminating but ****** - and really value having some comments as to your thoughts, feelings etc about the best (if there is one?) boat heating system eg. webasto versus eberspacher versus huuricane versus alde. I would prefer to be gas free but could change my mind (though costs may be influential)

Is this a topic where I might be more confused than before I ask myself?

Cheers

Tim

We have been living aboard for 7 years and use a combination of a Propex blown air (gas) and a Mikuni blown air (diesel) my advice would be go for something, anything with no moving parts or cicuit boards!!! My Propex packed up just intime for the snow. Currently searching out a alternative that is more reliable

[Guest Solace Bhen]

Big copper pipes is the thing that I can remember from my friend.However, caution should be considered. In any case, security is very important..That's why home security are placed to create a more secure living.Wherever we are, we need safety.

[alan_fincher]

Big copper pipes is the thing that I can remember from my friend.However, caution should be considered. In any case, security is very important..That's why home security are placed to create a more secure living.Wherever we are, we need safety.

 

Yawn..........................

 

Mods - another of the bu**ers!

[robkg]

Hi everyone

I have spent umpteen hours trawling through various posts in relation to various boat heating systems - very illuminating but ****** - and really value having some comments as to your thoughts, feelings etc about the best (if there is one?) boat heating system eg. webasto versus eberspacher versus huuricane versus alde. I would prefer to be gas free but could change my mind (though costs may be influential)

Is this a topic where I might be more confused than before I ask myself?

Cheers

Tim

I have had experience of two eberspacher water heaters and most recently a webasto thermotop. If you are planning to run either of these on white diesel or kerosene then they may be alright. If you plan to run them on red diesel then expect to spend substantial amounts of time/money on keeping them servicable.

 

From all the information and advice I have absorbed, my understanding is as follows:

 

Whilst the legislation on white diesel has driven cleaner low sulpher fuels, red diesel has in all probability deteriorated, at least in some parts of the country. This has led to a situation where the reputation of these heaters as suitable for narrow boats is a legacy of years past and does not reflect todays situation.

 

The only hope of getting anything close to an acceptable service interval (on red diesel), is to have an installation that does not allow the heater to run on half power for any length of time. This is achieved by fitting radiators with far more capacity than necessary to heat such an area. Then fitting a room thermostat to switch the heater on and off. This set up results in the heater running on full heat whilst trying to heat up the large radiator capacity until the boat gets warm enough for the thermostat to switch the heater off, never allowing it to run in half power mode. (Do you want acres of radiators?)

 

More than once I have heard/read peoples suggestions of fuel additives or advice to only run them for short periods of time. These individuals may or may not be right but if you or I buy a heater sold as fit to run on red diesel the we should be able to expect it to run on red diesel for extended periods of time.

 

I believe the air heaters sold by these two companies do not suffer from the same degree of problems as the burners are bigger and run hotter.

 

Much of this opinion has been substantiated by an authorised main dealer for one of these companies.

[flatplane8]

Hi,

 

How are those of you with the Alde 3010 finding the gas consumption? We're still looking at one of these plus a solid fuel stove for our barge.

 

Simon

[RichardN]

I have had experience of two eberspacher water heaters and most recently a webasto thermotop. ....

 

The only hope of getting anything close to an acceptable service interval (on red diesel), is to have an installation that does not allow the heater to run on half power for any length of time. This is achieved by fitting radiators with far more capacity than necessary to heat such an area. Then fitting a room thermostat to switch the heater on and off. This set up results in the heater running on full heat whilst trying to heat up the large radiator capacity until the boat gets warm enough for the thermostat to switch the heater off, never allowing it to run in half power mode. (Do you want acres of radiators?)

 

....... Much of this opinion has been substantiated by an authorised main dealer for one of these companies.

 

 

I asked about a room stat on a Webasto and was rather emphatically told that it will knacker the heater as it will mean that the heater will keep on being turned on or off at frequent intervals. That makes complete sense to me. Are you sure about getting that information from an authorised main dealer?

 

I talked to the Webasto rep at the London Boat Show and asked him about red diesel. His view was that it is fine when it leaves the refinery. Again that makes sense, we have extra filters fitted on our diesel line to the webasto and have to say whilst it did coke up recently it has otherwise run really well with none of the problems that an unfiltered Mikuni had on a previous share boat.

 

--

Richard

http://indigodream.wordpress.com

[dor]

How are those of you with the Alde 3010 finding the gas consumption? We're still looking at one of these plus a solid fuel stove for our barge.

 

Hi Simon. I'm not a liveaboard, so can't comment on how it would work out as the main heating source, nor whether it would be adequate for a barge. On my narrowboat, I mostly use it as a top-up heating system, either for hot water, heating or both, with most of the heating coming from a solid fuel stove (Brunel 1A).

 

The heater is rated at 5Kw (on gas) and it is recommended that radiators should be something near that as it is more efficient to work it fairly hard while it is running. At full output it uses about 400g propane an hour, but it will drop back to a lower usage figure once up to temperature (260g/hr I think). At the current price of £20 per 13Kg that's about 60p/hour. Of course it won't be running all the time and I think it compares favourably with diesel boilers. It is trouble-free and needs virtually no maintenance which is a big plus compared to diesel heaters it would seem. It also has an inbuilt 2kw electric element which can be used if you are on a landline.

 

It is certainly more efficient that the old upright 2928 comfort Alde boilers and although it is a subjective figure, I would say it is about 30% cheaper to run.

[koukouvagia]

I’m a great fan of Refleks heaters. One advantage that no one has mentioned, is that the body of the heater gives out very little radiant heat. This means that the surrounding woodwork doesn’t heat up as it does round a solid fuel fire. Recent events have shown the dangers of fire from stoves placed too near bulkheads, especially if the insulation breaks down. When a Refleks is only a few inches away, the wall is barely warm. So very good when space is tight. The manufacturer’s instructions recommend a distance of 12” from an uninsulated bulkhead, less if insulated.

[flatplane8]

Hi Simon. I'm not a liveaboard, so can't comment on how it would work out as the main heating source, nor whether it would be adequate for a barge. On my narrowboat, I mostly use it as a top-up heating system, either for hot water, heating or both, with most of the heating coming from a solid fuel stove (Brunel 1A).

 

The heater is rated at 5Kw (on gas) and it is recommended that radiators should be something near that as it is more efficient to work it fairly hard while it is running. At full output it uses about 400g propane an hour, but it will drop back to a lower usage figure once up to temperature (260g/hr I think). At the current price of £20 per 13Kg that's about 60p/hour. Of course it won't be running all the time and I think it compares favourably with diesel boilers. It is trouble-free and needs virtually no maintenance which is a big plus compared to diesel heaters it would seem. It also has an inbuilt 2kw electric element which can be used if you are on a landline.

 

It is certainly more efficient that the old upright 2928 comfort Alde boilers and although it is a subjective figure, I would say it is about 30% cheaper to run.

 

 

Thanks! I think we'd use in a similar way, in that if we were on board for long lengths of time (e.g. weekends) we'd use solid fuel.