Should Forced diesel heating be banned from being used late at night?

[mayalld]

What is your magic form of heating that doesnt create noise or smoke pollution and is it suitable for a fibreglass boat?

 

How do you know it is silent maybe you just cant hear it but your neighbours can.

 

We use a bubble stove, which is an UNPRESSURISED diesel stove.

 

In appearance, it looks like a solid fuel burner, but works by a slow dripfeed of diesel into a burner pot.

 

In normal operation, there is no smoke, just a heat haze, and I have yet to see a case of somebody claiming that they can hear on in operation.

[Naughty Cal]

We use a bubble stove, which is an UNPRESSURISED diesel stove.

 

In appearance, it looks like a solid fuel burner, but works by a slow dripfeed of diesel into a burner pot.

 

In normal operation, there is no smoke, just a heat haze, and I have yet to see a case of somebody claiming that they can hear on in operation.

 

Oddly enough we have yet to have anyone say they can hear ours in operation, does that make it silent?

 

If a tree falls in a deserted forest does it make a sound?

[mayalld]

It still seems unreasonable to doubt her word without having any objective evidence either way.

 

Indeed, I accept that I am presuming.

 

However, the weight of two main pieces of evidence, namely;

1. Her poor track record on judging noise.
   
2. The close correlation between sightings of silent force diesel heaters, and sightings of rocking horse droppings
   

It is not an entirely unreadonable presumption to make.

 

Oddly enough we have yet to have anyone say they can hear ours in operation, does that make it silent?

 

No, it means that they don't want to make a fuss.

[AlanH]

The noise isnt the issue its the smell and smoke from solid fuel heating and the fumes and CO from gas heating.

And the fumes and CO from diesel heating? Although I don't use it, I like the smell of wood smoke.

In this thread the noise is the issue. I must admit that all the diesel heaters on our moorings are noisy but not enough to bother me, particularly when I'm inside the boat.

[Naughty Cal]

Lets go on this one.

 

We dont hear noise from any of our neighbours heaters when we are in our boat. Our boat is fibreglass, has no insulation and is situated around 11ft from the boat next door and 8 ft from the boat behind. We have witnessed the lack of noise from the outside of our boat ourselves, we regulaly talk to the people who have boats in the vicinity of ours and can honestly say that at no time has talk turned to the noise diesel heaters make be it at day or night.

 

And my poor track record for judging noise didnt turn out to be so poor in the end but that is another topic completely.

[Chertsey]

I for one certainly don't want to see more rules. If everyone were considerate then we wouldn't need rules at all.

However, if there are rules, then they should be consistent.

[churchward]

I for one certainly don't want to see more rules. If everyone were considerate then we wouldn't need rules at all.

However, if there are rules, then they should be consistent.

 

What we really need is clearly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!

 

My own observations on this kind of heater are as follows. There seems to be quite a difference if used with or without a silencer (rather obvious I suppose) mine doesn't have one but I have heard one function with one. I do indeed call mine "the jet engine" as it does make that blowing whine like one. Outside on a quiet night I expect it can carry a bit as I have heard others in the marina. However, invited to have a look at someone else’s installation he had a silencer fitted and it made the unit (otherwise same as mine an Eberspacher D4) very quiet at the outlet.

 

Even though I can hear other units when outside I have never been able to hear them from inside the boat (apart from our own) with or without silencer. Don’t use it often though as we prefer the solid fuel stove.

 

I would hope though that in any situation like this that sense would prevail and people act with consideration for others i.e. if there is a problem with noise that if there hasn’t been a silencer fitted then one is ASAP. I would also not like the thought of someone going cold because they dare not switch on their heating (and go cold) for fear of what the neighbours would say.

 

By the way as an aside regarding comparison to B52s I can confidently say they are nothing like an eberspacher for noise. Several years ago I used to go fishing on a lake near the end of the runway at Fairford airforce base. There used to be mainly US refuelling planes stationed there but occasionally there would be a visiting flight of B52s. I have been fishing whilst they have taken off and I know how much noise they make which can not only be heard but also felt deep in your insides when they are on full power and struggling to get height. You can also taste the air as they go by due to the unburnt fuel being chucked out the back of the engines.

[Pretty Funked Up]

I for one certainly don't want to see more rules. If everyone were considerate then we wouldn't need rules at all.

However, if there are rules, then they should be consistent.

 

But we do have rules, very clear ones too.

Its just marina users dont like em, they want them changed to suit their marina way of life.

They sit in their marina with little else to do but whine about .... errr..... EVERYTHING.

 

But then theres so much money to be milked out of them i want to open one myself

A ban on diesel heating within the marina is 100% acceptable maybe you should approach your owner about it.... goodluck

[estwdjhn]

I find myself pondering why people feel the need to run these things for anything apart from quickly heating the boat when its cold when you come onbaord. It has to be one of the most expensive ways to heat your boat.

 

As someone said earlier, running one for a week costs about £70. One of my neigbours who has kept his coal stove in 24/7 for the last month tells me its cost under £60 - or £15 a week.

 

I personally spend almost nothing on coal, as I run my pot belly stove on wooden packing crates that work would otherwise have to pay to dispose of.

 

The wood is all perfectly dry, and it burns with no visible smoke, and almost no ash - result free heat.

 

All the above not withstanding, I personally wouldn't like to see diesel heating banned at night.

 

Every liberty that is erroded is one that comes closer to losing the privages I personally enjoy. If I'm not prepaired to stand up for boat owners with diesel heating, I can't really see why I should expect them to stand up for me if for instance some nanby-panby green do-gooder tries to get solid fuel banned from the waterways...

[fuzzyduck]

I find myself pondering why people feel the need to run these things for anything apart from quickly heating the boat when its cold when you come onbaord.

 

 

In my case because it's my sole source of heating.

[churchward]

But we do have rules, very clear ones too.

Its just marina users dont like em, they want them changed to suit their marina way of life.

They sit in their marina with little else to do but whine about .... errr..... EVERYTHING.

 

But then theres so much money to be milked out of them i want to open one myself

A ban on diesel heating within the marina is 100% acceptable maybe you should approach your owner about it.... goodluck

 

How do you expect to get people to lend any credence to your arguments when you so blatently use generalisations and insults to a different section of the boating community?

[Chertsey]

But we do have rules, very clear ones too.

Its just marina users dont like em, they want them changed to suit their marina way of life.

They sit in their marina with little else to do but whine about .... errr..... EVERYTHING.

 

But then theres so much money to be milked out of them i want to open one myself

A ban on diesel heating within the marina is 100% acceptable maybe you should approach your owner about it.... goodluck

 

But isn't the inconsistency precisely what people are complaining about? Don't know why you think it's only marina users, there seems to be a combination on either side of the argument. I have no personal axe to grind - I've never heard one of these things and I'm not especially bothered by noise anyway - but inconsistent rules do bother me. Why is it OK to run a noisy heating system and not to run an engine? That's what it comes down to. And by the way, my engine runs radiators on the boat so I could claim I needed to do it to keep warm...

[Leepers]

It still seems unreasonable to doubt her word without having any objective evidence either way.

 

The webasto in our car is extremely quiet. Does that help?

 

Richard

 

 

 

I think that it would be hard to argue that either solid fuel or gas heating on a boat creates a significant sound nuisance.

 

Richard

 

 

What about someone filling their coal scuttle from a bag of solid fuel on the front deck late at night after they have come back from the pub - That Is LOUD!!

[Dominic M]

But isn't the inconsistency precisely what people are complaining about? Don't know why you think it's only marina users, there seems to be a combination on either side of the argument. I have no personal axe to grind - I've never heard one of these things and I'm not especially bothered by noise anyway - but inconsistent rules do bother me. Why is it OK to run a noisy heating system and not to run an engine? That's what it comes down to. And by the way, my engine runs radiators on the boat so I could claim I needed to do it to keep warm...

I remember my first encounter with a Webasto system - 1994 and we were frozen in at Lapworth next to a boat that had one. They were a new thing then. It roared away unerringly all night. I swore I'd never have one.

 

Now I have just installed the Smartgate Morso Squirrel conversion, which has turned my solid fuel stove into a mini nuclear reactor. Zero emissions, and you only need to refuel once every 1000 years. And absolutely silent too. The boat is as warm as toast.

[Pretty Funked Up]

...use generalisations and insults to a different section of the boating community?

 

Wheres the insult??

 

generalisations? - most of the whinging threads are riddled with them!

I did, however, specifically mean inland waterway marinas.

I know the coastal bunch are much much more forgiving and realistic.

 

As like others my diesel heater is my sole source of heating.

BW rules are very specific and they dont try and deny you heat in their rules, they leave that job to......

[churchward]

Wheres the insult??

 

generalisations? - most of the whinging threads are riddled with them!

I did, however, specifically mean inland waterway marinas.

I know the coastal bunch are much much more forgiving and realistic.

 

As like others my diesel heater is my sole source of heating.

BW rules are very specific and they dont try and deny you heat in their rules, they leave that job to......

 

Grow-up, do you have to follow the pack? The insult is in your generalisation which by its nature cannot be true of all people.

 

As for your heater being your sole source of heating, so what? I haven't expressed or implied that you should not use it and I do keep my boat in a Marina but that won't compute with you and your cosy us and them world will it?

[Pretty Funked Up]

"us and them world" ?!?!?!

 

I am very much the opposite, if you read other threads you must have seen this.

 

If you read down the thread, and indeed the forum, carefully though you will see most of the,

"ban this...",

"outlaw that...",

"the person next to me keeps..." etc etc comes from people in marinas.

 

I actually would like people to get along and stop ALL THE WHINGING!

 

my comment about my heater wasnt even aimed at you at all anyway it was in general to all the thread readers.

 

I dont see why marina operators cant make rules for inside the marina to keep the peace in there, just dont screw up the rest of the canals please!

Edited December 10, 2008 by Pretty Funked Up

[AlanH]

"us and them world" ?!?!?!

 

I am very much the opposite, if you read other threads you must have seen this.

 

If you read down the thread, and indeed the forum, carefully though you will see most of the,

"ban this...",

"outlaw that...",

"the person next to me keeps..." etc etc comes from people in marinas.

 

I actually would like people to get along and stop ALL THE WHINGING!

If you'd like everyone to get along then you should stop making generalisations and then spuriously accusing one set of boaters of being complainers. It is you that is being divisive. Anyway, how do you know where posters moor? Where do I moor?

By your past posts you are obviously predjudiced against marina moorers and yet you call for all to get along. I suspect that you mean that all boaters should agree with you.

[blackelle123]

If you'd like everyone to get along then you should stop making generalisations and then spuriously accusing one set of boaters of being complainers. It is you that is being divisive. Anyway, how do you know where posters moor? Where do I moor?

By your past posts you are obviously predjudiced against marina moorers and yet you call for all to get along. I suspect that you mean that all boaters should agree with you.

 

I live in a Marina, my neighbour has said form of heating and I don't, I actually have diesel heating. But strangly enough, the noise of their heating flaring up does not bother me and I get on with them very well. Each to their own I guess!!!!!!

Its a shame that a simple question can invoke such responses - I thought that all boat people were descent, well balance, non-argumentative, relaxed type folk that tended to get on with others from all walks of life with no issues at all - How wrong can one be!!

[Naughty Cal]

"us and them world" ?!?!?!

 

I am very much the opposite, if you read other threads you must have seen this.

 

If you read down the thread, and indeed the forum, carefully though you will see most of the,

"ban this...",

"outlaw that...",

"the person next to me keeps..." etc etc comes from people in marinas.

 

I actually would like people to get along and stop ALL THE WHINGING!

 

my comment about my heater wasnt even aimed at you at all anyway it was in general to all the thread readers.

 

I dont see why marina operators cant make rules for inside the marina to keep the peace in there, just dont screw up the rest of the canals please!

 

The marina we moor in has a very strict set of rules to abide by. None however relate to heating. The plus side of this is that everybody knows what they can and cant do within the marina boundaries. The result a peaceful community of boaters who get along with each other and help each other out. Quite the opposite can be said for the BW mooring sites along the river. They are scruffy places littered with ramshackle sheds and the like, boaters scowling at you should you dare to sail past and move the water (god forbid). So quite the opposite of what you believe to be true im afraid.

 

We were warned against mooring in Burton Waters by a fellow at a BW mooring site. Too expensive and exclusive he reckoned far better off finding a BW mooring. Turns out he had an application turned down for a mooring in the marina due to the condition of his boat. If he had got the mooring what would his reaction have been?

[carlt]

If you'd like everyone to get along then you should stop making generalisations

 

[mayalld]

"us and them world" ?!?!?!

 

I am very much the opposite, if you read other threads you must have seen this.

 

If you read down the thread, and indeed the forum, carefully though you will see most of the,

"ban this...",

"outlaw that...",

"the person next to me keeps..." etc etc comes from people in marinas.

 

I actually would like people to get along and stop ALL THE WHINGING!

 

It is a wonderful aspiration.

 

So, how do we achieve that?

 

Do we achieve it by everybody doing exactly as they please, because the course that they choose is best for them, regardless of the impact on others?

I suggest not.

 

Do we move to the other extreme, where everybody must do exactly as their neighbour requires?

Again, I suggest not, this is just as tyranical as the first option.

 

Do we all do unto others as we would like to be done unto?

Nope, this won't work, as it makes a flawed assumption that your neighbour shares a common set of views on what is reasonable with you, and if they don't you are still in trouble.

 

Do we set out a shared code of what is reasonable (whether written, or through long established convention).

I think we do. Everybody knows where they stand. Everybody knows that they are allowed to do things that may inconvenience others to a certain limit, and everybody know that they must accept that inconvenience within that limit.

[grahoom]

The marina we moor in has a very strict set of rules to abide by. None however relate to heating. The plus side of this is that everybody knows what they can and cant do within the marina boundaries. The result a peaceful community of boaters who get along with each other and help each other out. Quite the opposite can be said for the BW mooring sites along the river. They are scruffy places littered with ramshackle sheds and the like, boaters scowling at you should you dare to sail past and move the water (god forbid). So quite the opposite of what you believe to be true im afraid.

 

We were warned against mooring in Burton Waters by a fellow at a BW mooring site. Too expensive and exclusive he reckoned far better off finding a BW mooring. Turns out he had an application turned down for a mooring in the marina due to the condition of his boat. If he had got the mooring what would his reaction have been?

 

 

good job that scruffy sod didn't spoil the marina eh.

 

[carlt]

We were warned against mooring in Burton Waters by a fellow at a BW mooring site. Too expensive and exclusive he reckoned far better off finding a BW mooring. Turns out he had an application turned down for a mooring in the marina due to the condition of his boat. If he had got the mooring what would his reaction have been?

I hope your marina's entrance is locked, to stop the chavvy types coming in and racing round the pontoons.

 

I've heard they speed up to 27mph, round your way!

[Chris Pink]

Do we all do unto others as we would like to be done unto?

Nope, this won't work, as it makes a flawed assumption that your neighbour shares a common set of views on what is reasonable with you, and if they don't you are still in trouble.

 

Do we set out a shared code of what is reasonable (whether written, or through long established convention).

I think we do. Everybody knows where they stand. Everybody knows that they are allowed to do things that may inconvenience others to a certain limit, and everybody know that they must accept that inconvenience within that limit.

 

The problem with your analysis, Dave, is that for your suggested option to work, first must be appointed a body that everybody respects as having the authority to make those rules.

 

You dismiss the 'do to others as you have done to you' option which I would hold is our only hope for a truly co-operative society. We all live within limits of toleration and it would be a hard man or woman who censured someone whose behaviour fell in the area between his and another's comfort zone. Thus we achieve the aspiration of your stated aim without having to appoint an authority whose search for compromise is likely to please no-one.

 

A co-operative system is also likely to encourage dialogue and mutual understanding whereas a rule based system does not do these things and, if it breeds enough resentment, will break down.