Safe distance between moored boats

[Guest TerryL]

Is it actually gas bottles which cause the problem though? I've seen a few examples of burnt out boats and a burnt out boatclub house and the gas bottles always seem to remain intact with just their paint burnt off. There was a 40ft springer completely burnt out near Marlow recently and the gas bottles didn't go up, the boat was buckled, windows melted totally wrecked but the bottles were still intact. I guess it could be that the fire brigade concentrate on keeping any gas bottles cool above other considerations or are they actually really quite fire proof? How long would it actually take to burst a 13kg propane bottle in a boat fire?

 

The bottles wouldn't necessarily explode but the pressure relief valve can blow, releasing a jet of flammable gas under pressure to fuel your fire, thats if the hoses didn't burn first and release gas the same way with the bottle valve open. The gas released may not burn or explode immediately but would quite violently as soon as the gas and air mixture was right.

[Barry]

I guess it could be that the fire brigade concentrate on keeping any gas bottles cool above other considerations or are they actually really quite fire proof? How long would it actually take to burst a 13kg propane bottle in a boat fire?

 

They will cool the cylinders if they know where they are - in actuality they will put the fire out as quickly as possible since this is the best way to cool anything then - if a gas cylinder is found - they'll check it out and deal with it

 

If, on the other hand, upon arrival the unmistakable signs of a gas cylinder about to blow are there - regular increase in intensity as the pressure relief blows and the pressure drops again - they'll go defensive - protect the surrounding area and extinguish what they can from a safe distance - this works with cars fitted with LPG fuel tanks because they have pressure relief valves - I'm not sure about boat fittings

 

Some youths near Saxilby thought it would be fun to stick a propane cylinder inside a car and set fire to the car - a cylinder about 1m tall - when that cylinder exploded it destroyed the car from the chassis up and the cylinder hit the ground over 150m away

 

How long would it take? depends entirely on the amount of heat the cylinder is subjected to and that depends on the fire loading - the amount and type of flammable material close by

[Nic]

I don't think the distance is about the cylinders - seeing how flimsy caravans are, 3M is nothing.

 

H&S should say that long term unoccupied boats be placed in purpose built marinas to make the cut safe for the rest of us that way they aren't a fire risk

[tinca steve]

I do believe that an explosion within the confines of a narrow boat would result in the force exiting the vessel fore and aft like a shotgun going both ways. The expansion of gases within the hull especially in an all steel one would make it very possible that the fire would pass onto the next one when all are in a line , if to close , but when in a marina when the boats are side by side that fire from windows then would be a concern. But a well ventilated hold would negate a lot of problems in the case of a fire on board.

Edited October 29, 2008 by tinca steve

[Sir Nibble]

A 3M gap between moored boats? So much for sharing rings! In effect of course if you leave a 3M gap you will return to the boat to find that someone has moved it up so's they can fit their boat in.

[moggyjo]

Did anyone see an episode of "Londons Burning" When a load of gas bottle went up like fireworks flying all over the place,

[carlt]

 

Usk, after vandals torched her. The half full bottle was stood next to the 12" table saw, just to the right. It's buckled remains are a good indicator of the temperatures involved.

 

The bottle is still half full......They're pretty tough cookies, these calor bottles.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

I wonder how much trouble, cost, value, etc. it would be to rig a system to cut off the gas supply at the bottle or gas locker and flood the gas locker in the event of a fire on the boat.

 

Carl's example would seem to reinforce the idea that the gas escaping as the pressure builds is the danger, not a full explosion, would cutting the bottle of and insulating it with water keep it safe long enough for the fire to be put out?

[Barry]

Did anyone see an episode of "Londons Burning" When a load of gas bottle went up like fireworks flying all over the place,

 

SEE IT!!.....I was IN it!!

 

It was the final double episode of series 7 - filmed at the ex RAF Swinderby site on the A46 between Lincoln and Newark

 

Every extra in that episode was Lincolnshire Fire and Rescue personnel - firefighters, control room staff and admin staff

 

Carl's example would seem to reinforce the idea that the gas escaping as the pressure builds is the danger, not a full explosion, would cutting the bottle of and insulating it with water keep it safe long enough for the fire to be put out?

 

I think that in a boat with a gas cylinder connected to a flexible pipe system with the cylinder valve open then the gas escaping would be a major addition to the fire once the flexible hose lost its integrity.

 

A sealed cylinder heated till the cylinder itself ruptures goes off like a missile and the accompanying fireball as all the gas ignites instantly is huge - I'll post the photos when I get them

[Hobbler]

I expect someone threw away some fire ash before it was fully cooled.

 

 

Someone from a boat moored behind us on a visitor mooring on the Shroppie were shutting up their boat as they were going home for the night and emptied their ash can in the bottom of the towpath hedge . Ten minutes later a good twenty foot section of hedge was well alight and we had a heck of a job extinguishing it with buckets of water and extinguishers as the fire was travelling along the hedge only a few feet from the boats.

[sueb]

I wonder how much trouble, cost, value, etc. it would be to rig a system to cut off the gas supply at the bottle or gas locker and flood the gas locker in the event of a fire on the boat.

 

Carl's example would seem to reinforce the idea that the gas escaping as the pressure builds is the danger, not a full explosion, would cutting the bottle of and insulating it with water keep it safe long enough for the fire to be put out?

Bit of a problem as the gas locker has to have drain holes.

Sue

[moggyjo]

SEE IT!!.....I was IN it!!

 

It was the final double episode of series 7 - filmed at the ex RAF Swinderby site on the A46 between Lincoln and Newark

 

Every extra in that episode was Lincolnshire Fire and Rescue personnel - firefighters, control room staff and admin staff

Was that real then, when the gas bottles were taking off like rockets?