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hire boats to buy or not to buy


colin1325

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thanks for you comments as usual

Alvechurch have a lot of 45' boats available at the end of the season that I like the look of, but they seem to be way over priced for their age considering the punishment they may have had.I suppose it depends if they would accept a cheeky offer.
ill have a look but really want some x tra space 60 foot thanks ill have a look i have http://www.boatsales-uk.com/boat_sales.htm found these
Alvechurch have a lot of 45' boats available at the end of the season that I like the look of, but they seem to be way over priced for their age considering the punishment they may have had.I suppose it depends if they would accept a cheeky offer.
looks like same site
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Hi Colin.

 

Don't rule out ex hire boats but bear in mind they almost certainly will have done an awful lot of work, not just the engine, that is fairly easily put right, but everything.. When out of the water look for wear at the start of both swims (thats where people come in to moor).

 

Remember, a five year old hire boat (and hire firms can fib too) can be equivalent to a 30 year old private boat, the trouble is that other buyers will not quite believe that and offer silly money.

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Hi Colin.

 

Don't rule out ex hire boats but bear in mind they almost certainly will have done an awful lot of work, not just the engine, that is fairly easily put right, but everything.. When out of the water look for wear at the start of both swims (thats where people come in to moor).

 

Remember, a five year old hire boat (and hire firms can fib too) can be equivalent to a 30 year old private boat, the trouble is that other buyers will not quite believe that and offer silly money.

 

I bought an ex Black Prince 71'6" NB from Alvechurch in June. Cruised it to Bishopton on the Stratford

Upon Avon [narrow] canal. Spent two months re-fitting it then took it down to Engineer's Wharf in London [179 locks, 10 days] down the Grand Union [broad] without a problem. It was a bit tight in one or two locks, I had to keep an eye on the cill, but apart from that no problems. My student son and a fellow student now live on it and take it in and out of

London [Paddington Basin] every week. he has been round most of the London canals without any problem. It's not particularly bad to handle [no bow thrusters] they do really well and have coped with everything

that they have come across.

They have a large dining/tv lounge/kitchen, one fixed double bed room, wc/shower/washroom, large study/lounge

which has a double fouton in it, second wc, little washing room, 4 single

wardrobes and numerous cubby holes and shelves, a single bedroom and

study, plus a cruiser stern that seats six and a nice little bow deck.

The space is fantastic... certainly bigger and cheaper than a flat in

London and he's acquired a new hobby and is fast becoming a marine

engineer. All in all, a big boat has been great for us up to now!

 

In terms of the actual buying process from Alvechurch... they are crap (I don't care sue me!). But I strongly suspect that's boatyards generally. They only respond to pressure to get things done, and heavy pressure! Mr Nice Guy doesn't work. As long as you know that, and you know what you're in for that's fine. I don't know what their own boats are like.

Cheers

Ian

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We have an ex Black Prince and an extensive web site detailing our experiences so far.

 

www then canalpages then .co.uk

 

(typed like that to avoid the address being 'botted') but I'm sure you can work it out.

 

Follow the link to 'going liveaboard'. The site is now at about page 17.

 

Steev the Pagan Wych

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Hi Colin

 

Sue (a member of this forum) recently bought an ex 'Black Prince' have a look at her blog 'No Problem', you will have to go back in the archives.

hi sue it looks as if your having a ball good on yer

help?? these boats look so long and the canal locks are so small how do you manage .

how long have u been at this life and how long does it take to steer the thing in a straight line colin

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Hi Colin, I can't even drive a car but I learned to drive a narrowboat with the help of my partner who has driven boats for a community boat scheme for years. He has the kids he takes out steering the boat well in no time at all.

 

It is easier than you think, the boats move very slowly, we always joke that if you think you are going to crash there is time to go and make a cuppa before it happens.

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I knew someone would say that! :lol:

When I used to show people out on Saturday afternoons, if the "Dominant Male" (aka skipper) couldn't steer I'd ask the wife if she could steer a shopping trolley (walk the back end in the opposite direction to where you want to go, and then push) and she'd always understand and show her husband how it should be done. :cheers:

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My last boat was ex-hire and was fine. I went out on Saturday for a pint of milk and surprised the wife by buying an ex-Black Prince ! Looks great and only 3 years old. Ex-hire are particularly great if you don't want the standard layout from rear bed to front sitting for 2 peeps. Ours is due to an expanding family and the desire to have enough beds for all of us.

 

A great deal appears to be the ex-BP 70 footers. They are fundamentally a floating bed centre but with some very simple removal of said beds you can pick one up for 52k

 

If as John says a 5 year old ex-hire is akin to a 30 year old private heaven only knows what Anglo-Welsh's current disposal list is like as most are at least 15-20 years old.

 

(Ok so the milk bit is a wee fib)

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My last boat was ex-hire and was fine. I went out on Saturday for a pint of milk and surprised the wife by buying an ex-Black Prince ! Looks great and only 3 years old. Ex-hire are particularly great if you don't want the standard layout from rear bed to front sitting for 2 peeps. Ours is due to an expanding family and the desire to have enough beds for all of us.

 

A great deal appears to be the ex-BP 70 footers. They are fundamentally a floating bed centre but with some very simple removal of said beds you can pick one up for 52k

 

If as John says a 5 year old ex-hire is akin to a 30 year old private heaven only knows what Anglo-Welsh's current disposal list is like as most are at least 15-20 years old.

 

(Ok so the milk bit is a wee fib)

 

My last boat was ex-hire and was fine. I went out on Saturday for a pint of milk and surprised the wife by buying an ex-Black Prince ! Looks great and only 3 years old. Ex-hire are particularly great if you don't want the standard layout from rear bed to front sitting for 2 peeps. Ours is due to an expanding family and the desire to have enough beds for all of us.

 

A great deal appears to be the ex-BP 70 footers. They are fundamentally a floating bed centre but with some very simple removal of said beds you can pick one up for 52k

 

If as John says a 5 year old ex-hire is akin to a 30 year old private heaven only knows what Anglo-Welsh's current disposal list is like as most are at least 15-20 years old.

 

(Ok so the milk bit is a wee fib)

 

 

£52? I wouldn't pay more than £40 for a 70 footer. Mine was advertised at £46. I offered 38 and got it for 37 after the survey. I bought this from Alvechurch who were acting as broker for a 2001 ex BP NB who was owned by one person since it was a BP boat. The previous owner had painted the outside and started to attempt a refit but failed miserably. It had most of the bedrooms ripped out but apart from that we spent about 10 k on:

 

New electrics: 3 kw inverter. extra cabling and wall sockets. Extra battery (stll needs another battery and upgraded alternater really but its manageable).

 

New appliances: Fridge-Freezer (240v), oven + hob, fitted kitchen units, washing/dryer machine (240v). lcd wall mounted TV and home cinema system.

Furniture: Three used 'Reception' type chairs (re-upolstered), Recovered and upholstered existing tatty fouton, two generous size used desks and drawer units (two students live on it now). New single mattress.

three used office chairs.

Various shelves and bits and bobs

Lots of paint for painting over the tatty melomime (spelling?)

Paint for walls.

Two new windows

New sealant to windows and rear cabin door

Tiling to the shower/wc/washroom and sink/cooker area of the kitchen

Stripping out existing kitchen unit and appliances.

Replaced sections of spongy flooring with marine ply.

New wooden floor boarding.

New light fittings throughout (halogen 10w thingies with chrome bezzels)

New Mattres and privacy curtain to double bed

New toilet/pan macerator (its a pumpout)

New Porta Potti back-up chemical loo with new wash basin.

New window blinds and chrome venetian blids with magnetic tie-backs.

Door handles lots of bits and bobs that add up the dosh.

 

That also includes license, survey, blacking, and labour for installing the inverter, a helmsman course and diesel engine mantenance course. Everything else was done by my wife and I. Incidentally, we are fortunate in that my wife is brilliant at tiling and sewing 8/10 for tiling and 10/10 for anything related to fabric and sewing. I rate myself about 7/10 at DIY but we got it done. My 19 yr old son is good with electrics so he re-wired the boat for the lighting. BP boats have a switch for each light whereas he re-wired it so the new lights are controled by light switches per room.

 

The boat is used as a liveaboard on shore-line power at weekends and in central London Mon-Fri. The only real problem is the washing machine drains the batteries very quickly so they only use it at weekends when in the marina on shore-line power. We plan to fit an upgraded alternator, a battery management system and possibly another one or two batteries. We'll see how it goes.

 

We are all totally new to boating of any description. I started looking at boats at the beginning of February and learning about narrowboats and canals, much of it on this brilliant forum. By the middle of June we had found a boat and bought it. By the middle of August, we were taking it down to Engineer's Wharf (a new mooring) in West London. A steep learning curve for the three of us but with focus, determination and plain hard graft... WE DID IT!!! My son and his friend pay me rent which is calculated to cover the moorings, insurance, license and a bit for maintenance. It's done him a world of good; the responsibility ( and a bucketful of cool kudos from his piers) is maturing him before my eyes, and we have acquired a holiday home, a base in London, common ground with my son, and a whole new interest. Love it!

Cheers

 

Ian

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When I used to show people out on Saturday afternoons, if the "Dominant Male" (aka skipper) couldn't steer I'd ask the wife if she could steer a shopping trolley (walk the back end in the opposite direction to where you want to go, and then push) and she'd always understand and show her husband how it should be done. :cheers:

 

I can't even steer a shopping trolley... seriously! :lol:

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Ripple is ex hire and extremely robust: so robust that making changes is quite a demanding job! I paid 40k for her: 62 feet 8 berth semi-trad straight from fleet (well no, she'd sat around for a year but had no owner in between times) John O may be right about wear in some instances but generally although hire boats are worked harder the level of maintenance and the more robust build to start off with more than compensates for this. Other boats at around 40k came nowhere near in spec at that sort of length.

 

However, I was single when I bought her and the layout doesn't suit a couple (as I'm now half of one) as well as it does a single bloke with his mates: that said, I was chatting to a guy who'd bought a 1999 braidbar 66 footer from Whilton (it was moored next to Ripple in Whilton as well) and he couldn't belive I'd got a 62 foot 1999 build from a reputable builder for that: he'd paid 61k. Was it nicer? yes, a lot better, worth another 21k? Only if you've got that sort of dosh hanging around doing nothing.

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Like pretty much everyone commenting here, we've got an ex-hire Black Prince - had it since May. (Lots of threads and gallery on this forum about it) It's 65ft long and the layout (lots of small cabins) really suits us (we like to compartmentalise our lifestyle :cheers::lol: ) A lot of boats are all open-plan and having lived open-plan in a house, we knew it wasn't for us!

 

As has been mentioned above, it was nearly all beds; so we ripped two of them out to give us a study and sitting room in addition to the kitchen/diner/lounge room, double bedroom, bathroom and utility room.

 

Buying ex hire was a good way for us to get a lot of boat for not a lot of money. Yes, it's needed work doing to it (but we had expected that) and we'd have wanted to personalise any boat we bought anyhow.

 

We initially looked at a lot of AngloWelsh boats before going for the Black Prince one. In my opinion, although the AngloWelsh boats had new nifty little engines fitted, the rest of the boat hadn't been kept in anywhere near as good nick as the BP one. And the initial hull thickness was less, and they retire them after being about 15-20 years old. Ours was retired after just 2 years and despite having had two owners since then, the hull survey was very favourable.

 

I see no reason for people to shy away from buying ex-hire; they are regularly maintained despite being bumped about a bit. Not all private boat owners can say the same when they sell their boat.

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Ripple is ex hire and extremely robust: so robust that making changes is quite a demanding job! I paid 40k for her: 62 feet 8 berth semi-trad straight from fleet (well no, she'd sat around for a year but had no owner in between times) John O may be right about wear in some instances but generally although hire boats are worked harder the level of maintenance and the more robust build to start off with more than compensates for this. Other boats at around 40k came nowhere near in spec at that sort of length.

 

However, I was single when I bought her and the layout doesn't suit a couple (as I'm now half of one) as well as it does a single bloke with his mates: that said, I was chatting to a guy who'd bought a 1999 braidbar 66 footer from Whilton (it was moored next to Ripple in Whilton as well) and he couldn't belive I'd got a 62 foot 1999 build from a reputable builder for that: he'd paid 61k. Was it nicer? yes, a lot better, worth another 21k? Only if you've got that sort of dosh hanging around doing nothing.

 

I would echo this and BSP's sentiments.

 

I looked at all sorts - our requirements were something we could hire out (all fully licensed of course) quickly and in the full knowledge that it wasn't a self-fit out death trap.

 

We didn't want all the chintz that often accompanies private boats.

 

Going forward, I envisage that as the BP boats are built production line style, faults and repairs should be easier to effect.

 

Alvechurch and Black Prince were compared and the key difference was that the BP were much newer and more 'contemporary' for proportionally not that much more brass.

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I see no reason for people to shy away from buying ex-hire; they are regularly maintained despite being bumped about a bit. Not all private boat owners can say the same when they sell their boat.

 

We have an ex Alvechurch boat ( but the you will have worked that out from my avatar).

 

To add to the maintained bit. Hire boats are designed and built with maintenance in mind. I recently did the oil, fual and air filters on Tawny Owl in about half-an-hour. This was easy to do as the access is simple in the roomy cruiser stern. We had a problem the season before last with a water pump so we switched it off and opened the bypass between the hot and cold circuits and ran on one pump for a while. Generally anything is easy to get to, quick to work on and uses fairly common robust parts.

 

There is a downside to this though. Sometimes things have had to be fixed in a hurry and stay that way. I recently rewired the bilge pump and replaced the six part live feed wire!

 

As this is our first boat we decided that the bumped about bit wasn't important. We might as well make our mistakes on a battle scarred boat where they won't show as on a brand new shiny hull.

 

Be aware that you will usually be buying a hire boat at the end of the season. If it had stayed on hire then all of the outstanding maintenance jobs would have been done over the winter. You will have to pick up the wear and tear repairs.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Richard

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