River Weaver boat sizes

[magpie patrick]

We had our first full length trip on the River Weaver last weekend: I'd been on before but only up to Northwich. Wonderful, a beautiful river and very different from an ordinary canal trip.

 

But it got me wondering...

 

the current big locks are about 220 feet long and 35 feet wide. I think Hunts and Vale Royal are a teeny bit smaller but still flippin big by canal standards. I know ships came up to Winnington (there is still a rabies sign at one wharf) and some of these were what you might call "Weavermax". But what about above Northwich, through those top two locks? Traffic above Northwich apparently stopped in 1963, but was it ever more than big barges anyway?

 

I suspect the locks weren't originally built for ships but to take a number of barges in one locking. Certainly working in pairs, rather larger than your average narrow boat pair, occurred.

 

Anyone know? and while your at it, does anyone know when the locks where reduced in number: Hadfield states there were originally twelve but is a bit vague about when they disappeared.

[fender]

We had our first full length trip on the River Weaver last weekend: I'd been on before but only up to Northwich. Wonderful, a beautiful river and very different from an ordinary canal trip.

 

But it got me wondering...

 

the current big locks are about 220 feet long and 35 feet wide. I think Hunts and Vale Royal are a teeny bit smaller but still flippin big by canal standards. I know ships came up to Winnington (there is still a rabies sign at one wharf) and some of these were what you might call "Weavermax". But what about above Northwich, through those top two locks? Traffic above Northwich apparently stopped in 1963, but was it ever more than big barges anyway?

 

I suspect the locks weren't originally built for ships but to take a number of barges in one locking. Certainly working in pairs, rather larger than your average narrow boat pair, occurred.

 

Anyone know? and while your at it, does anyone know when the locks where reduced in number: Hadfield states there were originally twelve but is a bit vague about when they disappeared.

 

I havent been up the weaver for years, in fact I was one of those boaters that returned up the Anderton lift the last week before it suddenly shut for the very long closure. I cant remember but it was either before or just after the IWA rally at Preston Brook.

 

I loved the Weaver and going round and round the bottom flash at Winsford.

 

I also loved the railway signals that were used to control the traffic in and out of the locks. The lock mechanism failed at Vale Royal on our return trip and BWB were called out, it was interesting to see them opening the machinery access covers using these great big handles (rather like those used by the water companines but much bigger) to turn the hydraulic gear for the gates and paddles.

 

Commercial traffic above Northwich only went as far as the salt works, not sure that any commercial traffic went as far as Winsford itself. Most of the traffic was for the ICI works, and it was a sight to see these coasters moor up at ICI's wharf right oposite the Anderton lift.

[dor]

Salt was certainly shipped via the Weaver from the salt mine at Winsford, but I don't know if they were trains of barges or ships.

[fender]

Salt was certainly shipped via the Weaver from the salt mine at Winsford, but I don't know if they were trains of barges or ships.

 

I just had a bit of a look on the net, and found that sailing barges (the Weaver flats I presume) originally carried salt down river on the tide prior to 1732 (this was when the tides were able to reach Winsford.)

 

When the Weaver was canalised 40 ton barges were able to navigate to Winsford, though I imagine this still included the Weaver flats.

 

When Edward Leader Williams became the resident engineer for the navigation a lot of changes happened, like the deepening and straightening of the channels, and of course the larger locks built. This allowed coasters to reach Winsford.

[cheshire~rose]

There were ships that came up the Weaver. This was happening at leat up until the 1970's. I know because a friend used to be in the merchant navy and has told me about his trips up there to cargo.

 

He was due to take his NB down the Weaver last year but a stoppage elsewhere on the system meant the circular route that was planned was not an option given the time constraints and so he never did it.

 

Not being very well informed in types of ships I cannot tell you more about the type or size of vessel he used to be on at the moment and the person who can is away on holiday at the moment.

 

I have sent the question to him so hopefully he can enlighten us upon his return.

[dockgateman]

We had our first full length trip on the River Weaver last weekend: I'd been on before but only up to Northwich. Wonderful, a beautiful river and very different from an ordinary canal trip.

 

But it got me wondering...

 

the current big locks are about 220 feet long and 35 feet wide. I think Hunts and Vale Royal are a teeny bit smaller but still flippin big by canal standards. I know ships came up to Winnington (there is still a rabies sign at one wharf) and some of these were what you might call "Weavermax". But what about above Northwich, through those top two locks? Traffic above Northwich apparently stopped in 1963, but was it ever more than big barges anyway?

 

I suspect the locks weren't originally built for ships but to take a number of barges in one locking. Certainly working in pairs, rather larger than your average narrow boat pair, occurred.

 

Anyone know? and while your at it, does anyone know when the locks where reduced in number: Hadfield states there were originally twelve but is a bit vague about when they disappeared.

 

 

yes the river weaver was open to commercial traffic up to the early 1980s large vessels ie 'coasters' A & J Gardens, of

Glasgow, In 1977 i was on a ship m/v saint Moden, the ship had tanks in the 2 hatches and load calcium cloride at ICI

Winington and and we sail up to scotland ie Troon. Girvan, Lerwick in the shetland isles. and Bacaldine near Oban,

we pick up the 'Pilot' at Marsh locks and it took 7 to 8 hours to get to winnington the pilot use the Anderton lift area as the

winding hole to turn the ship round and we moor-up and start loading, if we had a night or two along side the crew would

go to the british leagen club in barton, and the river weaver was as Blissful then as it is today....

[James2nd]

I'm a non commercial filmmaker and my current project is the Weaver Navigation.   I'm trying to find out the name and if possible get a photograph of the last commercial boat that operated on the Weaver.  The previous post indicates that ships were coming up to Northwich up to the early 1980s.   A photo of the M/V Saint Moden would also be great.  Another question - do narrow boats pay a fee to use the Anderton Boat Lift?  I would like to take some shots going up or down the lift.  I'm going to give it a go on the tourist boat this week - but suspect it won't be good for filming inside what looks like a glass bubble.   I was wondering if I offered to pay for the transit through the lift - a boat owner might let me have a ride up front.

[DHutch]

3 minutes ago, James2nd said:

Another question - do narrow boats pay a fee to use the Anderton Boat Lift?

Can't really help with details of weaver boats, but the lift is free to anyone with a standard CRT liecence (almost anyone) if you just turn up, which is what most will do.

If you want to book a specific timeslot in advance it's £5. For any nonCRT boat, such as anyone on a Bridgewater liecence it's £30 I believe.

See a current running topic on the lift for more details.

Daniel

[David Mack]

Viaduct Shipping were operating on the Weaver up to Frodsham until about 2013 when they moved to Runcorn.

[billh]

Poor quality pictures exist of our wooden narrowboat sharing a Weaver lock with the Saint Something-or-Other coaster in 1977. Ship goes in lock first , we squeeze alongside and exit first when the head gates open. We had to give the engine plenty of gas to keep ahead of the ship which was bound for  ICI Winnington. Six and a half quid to use the Anderton Lift forty years ago but not much demand for it then (was it  too expensive?)

[dor]

6 hours ago, David Mack said:

Viaduct Shipping were operating on the Weaver up to Frodsham until about 2013 when they moved to Runcorn.

But I think that was on the Weaver proper, rather than the Navigation.  Were they the grain carriers?

[Derek R.]

11 hours ago, DHutch said:

Can't really help with details of weaver boats, but the lift is free to anyone with a standard CRT liecence (almost anyone) if you just turn up, which is what most will do.

If you want to book a specific timeslot in advance it's £5. For any nonCRT boat, such as anyone on a Bridgewater liecence it's £30 I believe.

See a current running topic on the lift for more details.

Daniel

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/museums-and-attractions/anderton-boat-lift/boaters-area

 

Edited August 1, 2017 by Derek R.
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[James2nd]

11 hours ago, billh said:

Poor quality pictures exist of our wooden narrowboat sharing a Weaver lock with the Saint Something-or-Other coaster in 1977. Ship goes in lock first , we squeeze alongside and exit first when the head gates open. We had to give the engine plenty of gas to keep ahead of the ship which was bound for  ICI Winnington. Six and a half quid to use the Anderton Lift forty years ago but not much demand for it then (was it  too expensive?)

Is it possible to have sight of these pictures - thanks

[nebulae]

As I understand it,the Weaver from the junction with the Ship Canal to Frodsham Bridge is a toll free navigation. Vessels whose destination is on this part of the river,have toll free passage on the Ship Canal from Eastam to Frodsham Bridge.  I do not know if the river is toll free from Frodsham Bridge to the old Derelict Frodsham Lock,but I believe it may be.  CaRT is not the navigation authority,neither is the Ship Canal. As an aside,I believe the Ship Canal paid for Weston Marsh Lock,although it is owned by CaRT.

[mykaskin]

3 hours ago, nebulae said:

As I understand it,the Weaver from the junction with the Ship Canal to Frodsham Bridge is a toll free navigation. Vessels whose destination is on this part of the river,have toll free passage on the Ship Canal from Eastam to Frodsham Bridge.  I do not know if the river is toll free from Frodsham Bridge to the old Derelict Frodsham Lock,but I believe it may be.  CaRT is not the navigation authority,neither is the Ship Canal. As an aside,I believe the Ship Canal paid for Weston Marsh Lock,although it is owned by CaRT.

It is possible that the bottom end of the river is a free navigation, and there is free access from the Mersey to the river, but I haven't found any information online about it yet.  I do know that the Manchester Ship Canal is responsible for keeping at navigable depth on the river (after it removed the tides that would have kept it clear), but have reneged on this.
  

[nebulae]

I suspect that the toll free access to the Weaver would have been through the lock into the Mersey opposite the Weaver entrance. As the Ship Canal have closed this lock,they have to give passage from Eastam. The grain barges which used to moor below Frodsham Bridge,thus had free passage and free mooring. I understand that the sailing club based below Frodsham Bridge and the water skiers above the  bridge have free access to the water,but I am open to correction.

[fanshaft]

6 hours ago, nebulae said:

I suspect that the toll free access to the Weaver would have been through the lock into the Mersey opposite the Weaver entrance. As the Ship Canal have closed this lock,they have to give passage from Eastam. The grain barges which used to moor below Frodsham Bridge,thus had free passage and free mooring. I understand that the sailing club based below Frodsham Bridge and the water skiers above the  bridge have free access to the water,but I am open to correction.

Ships and barges have toll free access to the Weaver from the Mersey via Ship Canal but still have to pay ships dues.

I operated barges to Anderton principally the 'Charles William' (100 tonnes), with occasional general cargoes such as talc from Manchester docks from December 1979.  Then from February 1981 a new traffic, wheat, from Seaforth to Anderton.  This transferred to Frodsham from June of that year, then for reasons I don't recall, reverted to Anderton between October 1981 and June 1982.  Other carriers' craft were utilised including 'Spurn Light', and also 'Parbella' and 'Sarah Abbott' of Viaduct Shipping who took over the contract from October 1982.  More recently, as stated, the traffic has moved away from Frodsham to wharves on the Ship Canal.

This barge traffic may have been the last to operate on the Weaver Navigation as ICI disposed of its craft around this time (early 1980s), while the British Waterways Board was required to dispose of its none core assets and activities in 1987.  Freight depots were mostly sold or leased to road haulage concerns and this probably saw the end of ships and barges to Anderton depot.  

The last ship to trade up the Weaver was, I believe,  the tanker Saint Kearan (1978) which ran to Winnington until 1999.

As far as Winsford is concerned my narrow boat 'Swallow' carried market produce from there into Manchester between 1942 and 1946.

regards David L