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Albion

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Albion last won the day on August 15

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  1. Brexit 2017

    Anyone who lived outside the UK for more than 15 years was ineligible to vote in the referendum. This was contested by a couple of claimants in the High Court and the Court of Appeal and was rejected so it was not as if it was an arbitrary rule. See this link to a House of Commons document: House of Commons pdf link In my opinion anyone who has lived outside the UK for more than 15 years has most clearly voted with their feet and should not have as much right as those who continue to reside and vote in the UK to influence UK policy. It is not as if 15 years residency abroad could be termed a temporary work contract for example. Roger
  2. Brexit 2017

    The point being discussed by the other correspondents was when the term Common Market changed in to EC (later to EEC of course). Nobody is denying that the terms of the 1975 referendum were not discussed routinely but I'll bet you didn't discuss the subtleties of the change of name and the implications of that change even though the stats seem to indicate that only the term EC should have been used by the time of the referendum. Roger
  3. Brexit 2017

    That may be true but the Wilson 1975 referendum leaflet to encourage remain used the heading: This pamphlet is being sent by the Government to every household in Britain. We hope that it will help you to decide how to cast your vote in the coming Referendum on the European Community (Common Market). but then went on to use only the term Common Market uniquely on several of the topic headings or in the text so it was no wonder that the British public were confused (misled, perhaps) by this use of CM as opposed to its true identity of EC. I can find 6 topic texts using Common Market and only 3 that refer to the European Community or Community. Roger
  4. Brexit 2017

    The pound took a nose dive but the economy didn't. Financial markets are always very volatile to any uncertainty so it was no surprise at all that the pound would be affected. You only have to look at the way the pound reacts at the slightest news of an upturn or downturn of Brexit negotiations to see proof of the volatility of the money markets. Roger
  5. Brexit 2017

    2.........Carl, do you not recall that the economic disaster was supposed to happen the day after an exit vote and was not scheduled to be 18 months down the line even if the statement was true? Roger Taking the approximation of 52% leave and 48% remain a 2% shift of vote from one to the other only brings it to 50/50. Roger
  6. Brexit 2017

    1...........Yes, it's always great to engage in reasoned, challenging and abuse free arguments as per the two quoted below......(warning, irony alert). 2...........2% would have resulted in an approximate tie so I think you would have needed a greater number who would have been misled by what was a headline, but factually incorrect statement even if it was grammatically correct. 3...........There were, of course, also scare tactics employed by the Remain side if you would like to give a completely balanced view. 4...........Nobody could predict the mishandling of the current negotiations and the way that we are capitulating to every demand of the EU, unfortunately, so, just as in every election, you can only vote on your aspirations and beliefs. We should man up and withdraw from the negotiations to indicate that this nation will not be bullied into some sort of fudge. Only then will we get the EU to realise that punishing the UK for having the temerity to want to leave is not the way to go about negotiation. It's a fabulous club that punishes a member who desires to leave rather than asking itself what could have gone wrong and is there anything that could be done to prevent similar sentiments in other countries. Roger
  7. Brexit 2017

    Whilst negotiations aren't going well, I admit, I am heartily glad that we don't have the Geldofs and Gervais's in charge of our destiny. Roger
  8. Brexit 2017

    Ah well, we can all rely on affluent, so called 'stars', to guide us to the true path of enlightenment, just look at Sir Bob Geldof if you want an example of an educated and erudite comment on Brexit. What would we ordinary people do without their guidance? Roger
  9. Brexit 2017

    1........In other words you are unable to specify exactly how another layer of expensive politicians would curb the <quote> excesses and extremes of both our main parties <unquote> of our own home grown variety of politicians. Perhaps you can enlighten us exactly how the EU bureaucracy has reigned in excesses or extremes of our government recently. There must be many examples I take it from what you claim but I can't just bring one to mind at the moment so perhaps you can help. 2.........If there were people who made their referendum choice based on TV, papers, pub discussions...........or heaven forbid the Cameron propaganda document.......then that would apply to both sides equally. You cannot logically suggest that all people on the leave side were easily led by the TV, papers, etc. and all those on the remain side were intellectuals who made a thoroughly well researched decision. As far as the newspapers were concerned I understand that the Guardian, Observer, Times, Financial Times, Independent and the Daily Mirror were supporting remain so there seems to be some balance there surely. Obviously the general attitudes that one might have encountered in the pub would vary significantly and possibly reflect the area or constituency in which the pub was based and even areas that voted remain so that would also suggest some balance of influence. And then we are left with the Cameron document which supported remain and was therefore strongly trying to influence a remain vote at a cost to the taxpayer of £9.3 million. All in all, I suggest that in general there was a balance of uninformed and informed people on both sides of the argument. Roger
  10. Brexit 2017

    Oh dear, you seem to have missed my point. The Remain side keep using the figure of the bus's £350 million (a gross figure admittedly) , even as recently as last night on Question Time as Peterboat has highlighted. If everyone knows that the figure was false and that the bus did not promise to send all the money to the NHS why do the remain supporters keep banging on about it all the time long after it has been debunked? On your other point about having the EU controlling our politicians you must surely be joking. Why add another layer of slippery politicians to the governance of us and our country? If you think that the EU politicians are even less slippery than our home grown ones you are deluded. We do, at least, get a chance to control via General Elections our own but, as just one one of 28 nations with 751 MEPs in total and another layer of bureaucrats above them, all with their snouts in the trough (MEPs don't need to justify expenses up to £120,000 per annum with supporting evidence) we have even less control because we are just one of 28. Curbing excesses of politicians is a difficult task but adding another huge layer makes it easier? You have a very rose-tinted vision of MEPs integrity for sure. Roger It may have been their choice but it is still not good common sense not to do so. Roger
  11. Brexit 2017

    Agreed, some professions can opt out and some can't and that is easily verifiable. Anyone who didn't do a modicum of research to verify their opinions (or otherwise) before voting in the referendum was not sensible IMO. Roger
  12. Brexit 2017

    That applies to both sides in all honesty Martin. The claim that the Boris bus was promising to divert £350 million per week to the NHS is not quite what the wording said. It was something like 'We send the EU £350 million per week. Let's fund our NHS instead'. Now the 'LET US FUND' statement doesn't actually promise the whole £350 million. I agree that it implies that when read quickly, but the statement actually only says that we could spend some of that sum on the NHS. As with all promises from politicians it pays to think carefully about what they are actually grammatically saying as opposed to what you think they are saying on first hearing because they are all slippery sods and that included the Remain side also in the referendum. Roger
  13. Brexit 2017

    Do you honestly believe that the initial meeting of the 27 to decide tactics, the total lack of flexibility from the EU negotiators, the desire to punish a major financial contributor and discourage any other possible leavers by the EU bureaucrats was caused solely by the UK's negotiating team. Does not compute I'm afraid. Roger
  14. Brexit 2017

    Just a modicum of exaggeration perhaps? Roger
  15. Brexit 2017

    Someone like Ken Clarke or Anna Soubry perhaps who both claim to accept the democratic vote and yet are doing everything in their power to undermine the process in the undoubted desire that the whole process collapses (including their private meetings with EU negotiators) and yet they will still be able to claim that they accepted the democratic will of the electorate. I think that there is too much uncertainty as it is now without having undercover remainers at the controls. I think that the ongoing negotiations are not good but they would have been a total capitulation in your scenario. Roger
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