efanton

Thanks. Even better explanation.

Thanks for that. Its nice to understand the originating reason for some of our seemingly weird laws and regulations. Not getting het up, but yes the vat would buy an awful lot of extra's and fittings if I do go the route of getting a boat built. I dont know anyone who would willingly and knowingly spend far more than they need especially when it likely to be the second biggest purchase of their life.

this is very strange to me. Most already built boats that I have considered, or the sail away design that I still have in mind are in excess of 15 tonnes true weight. Yet Her Majesties extortion officers (otherwise known as the HMRC) seemingly have their own concept on what a boat weighs. A boat that might actually weight 18 tonnes when launched could according to the HMRC formula only weigh 12 tonnes or less. the formula they use is L (m) x B (m) x D (m) x 0.16 Has this ever been challenged? It strikes me that that's a significant chunk of money to be save if you are going to spend £45,000 or more on a new boat. But that aside, when giving the weight of a boat is it normal to use the weight at launch, and is this the also the dry weight or weight including fuel and water?

why the walk-through bathroom when there is bags of space? Personally, I would put the toilet where the bedroom door is and move the bedroom door to where the toilet is. that would then allow you to partition off the bathroom completely and still have enough space for a corridor. Nice to have a bit of privacy while you are in the bathroom and possibly going to prevent a embarrassing moment when you have guests aboard. Because you will have moved the door the two separate wardrobes wont work. I would replace them with a large double wardrobe. Space is premium on a boat and I will bet you will get far more clothes into a double wardrobe than you will in two small singles. Old Goat has a point about the bed being against the bow door. Personally I would have a double bed against the bathroom wall and instead of central bow doors have them to one side so that a large double wardrobe and possibly a chest of drawers against the bow wall. What do you gain by two single beds? all I can see is more hassle setting them up, more laundry, and the inevitable falling into the crack if the two beds are joined to form a double.

Surely the more logical (and I am sure in general more appreciated) approach would be to answer the question asked? If it is impossible to answer a question directly, then explain why. there is no need to second guess what the OP really asked, nor make judgement on what you might think they know or do not know. If the OP doesnt get the answer they were expecting then leave it up to them to re-frame the question. Those that wish to learn more will ask more questions, those that have the answer they need would I hope thank who ever answered their query. I am on a couple of these forums (motorbikes and other interests), as well as being a moderator on two, and the same problems seems to happen time and time again, people answering questions not asked, the more established members often treating new members differently (dont know why that happens but I am certain it does on nearly every forum I am on) or appearing aggressive in the way they respond (might not be intentional, but then again sometimes its deliberately done like that to not run foul of the mods). There is a real risk, and I have seen this happen time and time again on other forums, of new members being driven out or feeling not welcome on forums in general and that is a real shame. Forum are a great repository of information and apps, instant messengers, google+ etc that are slowly replacing forums will never be able to compete in that respect. Me, I'm quite a simple man. I have no affectations of grandeur nor illusions to my fallibility. If I need help I will ask, if I offer help I offer it because I want to help not because a forum gives me a platform or a alternative to actually having a real life. Life is only as complicated as you wish to make it, personally I prefer uncomplicated.

ok lads. Lets drop it and mark it down to the inter-webs having the effect that what might be read might not be what was intended by what was written. It was not my intention to hijack someone else's thread, apologies to the OP.

I am well aware of the unreliability of solar power. I think most people are. I agree many people might underestimate their power usage, especially if they have not had to rely on anything other than the national grid. Obviously before installing a solar system a power usage audit is required first. Even then your power usage will vary over the year, often using more power when less solar power is available. But the point remains where have I demonstrated "a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of solar". Why use such a phrase if I had not stated my estimate of power usage and the solar array that I intend to use? Of course the alternative is that they assumed without any evidence at all that I was unaware of the unreliability and variability of solar power. Why jump to such conclusions unless you wish to be pedantic?

I said but you cherry picked just and then went on to say What fundamental misunderstanding are you referring too then?

are you naturally a pedant, or is it you put great effort into belittling people you assume to have less knowledge than yourself? While I have never owned a narrow boat I do have a reasonable knowledge of solar but in this case very little to none in managing battery banks (have owned a few (fishing)boats before and built large scale model aircraft). I am very well aware that the power output of an array will vary massively depending on time of year, cloud cover , which way the panels are tilted or pointed as well as the actual quality of panel bought Having said that I dont think anyone on a narrow boat expects solar to be their only source of power, if its turns out that way some of the time then that's a bonus. As I see it you ensure you have the capability of providing all your power needs without solar (engine, generator or shore power) , and then the solar simply supplements or reduces the overall costs. Anything beyond that is a big bonus. Yes you might produce 20 times more solar power in the summer (not sure where you got that number), but any school child would and does realise that output will vary significantly. You better get down of that soapbox, one day you will slip and fall. Advice is very welcome but put downs or pedants arent. When deciding which panels and set up to buy for solar you dont calculate on the maximum theoretical output. having helped install solar systems on houses you factor in which direction the roof faces, the slope of the roof, shade (tree, tall buildings etc), quality of the panel, and there are other factors as well. certainly for the better brands of panels for use of homes most provide either a calculator or guidelines to help aid in deciding how many panels you need, or how much you can POTENTIALLY save for a given area of solar panels. Obviously these calculators would be totally useless in relation to a narrowboat, as the roof will not be facing in a fixed direction while cruising, hedgerows, trees building and other obstacles will continuously vary, but many of the principals will be the same. Its not an exact science simply because there are many variables. The best you can do is estimate by using averages (daylight hours, etc) and the recommendations by the manufacturer. Not at all but maybe , you demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of the person you are talking too. At the very least you should not assume everyone that might be new to this forum or new to canal boats is not a complete idiot, and that they might already have skills and knowledge from their existing life that are relevant.

The question was would a solar installation cause problems by 'overcharging' and you have answered that by saying no. Obviously no one is deliberately going to install a solar array bigger then they need, but I might be tempted to install an array that produces slightly more then I estimate I will need if I know this will have no detrimental effect on their battery banks or electrical system.

And I am slowly but surely going through all the old posts on the forum. (and that wont take days it will take weeks)

question from a newbie. Is there not a meter that can be fitted to tell exactly how much power has been drained from your battery bank each day? Would that be a difficulty thing to wire in to an existing set up, and if not how much would it cost roughly? Surely if you were able to keep a record of how much power was taken from your battery bank each day or week then deciding how much solar you need or how often you are going to need to run your engine (or separate generator) would be simple. Finally, would there be a problem (apart from the initial expense) from having too big a solar array? Could too much power damage you battery banks? This charging of battery banks, how big your banks should be, etc etc, seem to be a regular topic on the forum.

Thanks, but I dont want to waste the mans time. As I have said earlier I am not in a postion to buy a boat yet and wont be for a least 2 years.

Really? what's the head room like? I always assumed that tug decks did not have cabin space below, just storage. If there's headroom for cabin space then that really gives me something to think about. Would certainly open up a lot of options that I did not realise might be there. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. That's the sort of information I was hoping to get from using a forum like this. Not the sort of stuff you would get from a book or you-tube

Pm already sent to Alan thanking him for thinking about me. This is totally unexpected, but really appreciated. What a wonderful group of people there is on this site. Yes, this certainly would be a solution regarding my motorcycle, but it clearly demonstrates the problem with all the motorcycle storage solution I have seen so far. Effectively the bow deck has become totally unusable for anything other than storage. I still think the solution I cam up with is far more practical, in that the bow deck does remain usable for other things. Due to other commitments I will not be able to buy a boat for at least two years. I joined now to learn as much as I can before then and hopefully with what I learn save a bit of money when buying a boat and avoid making a serious mistake. thanks Alan the thought is really appreciated.