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I bet there's no stratification on Tim and Pru's boat!

Boating Perquisites - Version 3,429.5 Alarm, crew summoning ding-dong Anchor with associated chain and rope. Antifreeze Anti-vandal key & spare Baby wipes - loads Basic toolkit Batteries for LED torches & spares Beer Beer money Binoculars for seeing what is happening on the lock ahead Bread knife Boat hook Boat license stickers Bottle opener BSS stuff Bucket Burgee (optional) BW key & spare Camera Carbon Monoxide alarm Cat o' nine tails to keep the crew in order (& some soft rope) Chair Chocolate biscuits - loads Clock (for tunnels) Clothes & footwear & spares (note all may be needed in a single day) For cold weather For wet weather For warm weather For hot weather Cash - loads Coffee Compass Cooking Stove & fuel for it Corkscrew Cup-a-soups Cutters for use in weed hatch Depth/draft gauge Diesel Dipstick for diesel tank Dogs - minimum 2 max ~ 12 (edited) Duvet - 99Tog or better Electric Blanket (edited) Emergencies Action Plan (edited) Fan belt(s) - spare Fenders (for sleeping) - various , to taste Firelighters, box of, & spare First aid kit Floats for keys Fuses, spare Gang plank (for mutinous crew) Gas bottle spanner (must be reverse thread) Gas lighter thingy for lighting stove zip lighter blocks (edited) Glasses (optical) as needed & spares Gloves, nitrile, for dealing with weed hatch material which can be sharp. Grease - stern gland Guides - eg Pearson's, Nicholson's, Waterscape Hammers 2 - sledge/lump (edited) Headlamp & spare bulbs Heating system & fuel for it Horn Iphone or other pale imitation (edited) Jubilee clips, Stainless Steel, spare, in a range of sizes Jump lead - used on your domestic batteries if for some reason your starter battery dies Kart tyres on a few metres of rope as fenders Kettle "Keys" for eg water filler toilet pump out diesel filler Keys to everything & 2nd spare set (with keys individually identifiable) Leatherman/Swiss army knife Lifejackets (primarily for rivers) Lock key longthrow with roller handle & spare Lock key shortthrow with roller handle & spare Loupe & tweezers for splinters Magnet with string already attached. Maps Mirror Mobile phone & charging system Nappy pins 4 Nail scissors (edited) Oil, spare, engine Optimism - large size Padlocks - spare Paper & pencil Pins 4 (2 extra long) Pole, barge (Must be comfortable with spending long periods of time on the roof) Quaker's Porridge Oats - for use as a temporary adhesive/sealant only Radio (for weather forecast) RCR membership or similar Ropes, at least 3 (bow, stern, centre) but 4 (2x centre) makes life easier for some Sacks, plastic, black, for the storage of all manner of thing including Smokeless Fuel & Rubbish Salt (pinch of) for treating expert advice & traditional wisdom Saw Scaffolding pole, 8ft, preferably heavy gauge aluminium Scissors Slippers Sponge Stationary wallet, plastic, to keep paper stuff dry. Sticky Tape - sellotape, duct tape, easy-off tape, double-sided tape. (edited) Sun glasses & spare Sun hat & spare Tea Thermos flask Tiller bar and pin Tin opener Tinned food - loads (for emergency use) Tissue - loads Toilet paper - loads Torches (LED) & spare Towel (for travelling the Galaxy) Two-it (must be round) (edited) Umbrellas - 1 large 1 small (edited) VHF radio & certificate Vinegar for chips and wasp stings Walkie-talkies, pair Water Waterscape Boaters Guide - print Water hose Wellies (aka Wellington Boots) Wire - spare, electrical Wok plus two large wooden spoons Working toilet with more than adequate capacity Zip ties Zip (or other) fire lighter blocks (edited) Note that boats under 12ft in length may have difficulty in passing under low bridges when carrying the full inventory. Note that the alcohol may be for guests use only - or not.

Well I thought I had, which is why I splashed out on a decent set. Three months later, having looked after them in accordance with the advice on this forum they are farked. Why is it hysterical to tell people about it and try to figure out how/why it happened? Isn't that what forums are for?

If only there was an easy way to generate electricity from drizzle on a narrow boat.

Just back from the boat. When I got there Olive had put her old charger on the battery and there were lights. I showed them both how to remove two failed halogen bulbs and check the supply. The halogens were 10 watts. Judging by the weight the charger was of the transformer type and a row of lamps/leds on the front indicated it might deliver 6 amps. It was showing 1 amps and 13.6 volts (measured) when I got there. I could not measure any significant permanent discharge. After trying a variety of tricks to get none of the modern Halfords "smart" chargers to charge (including my own that looks like Biz's) I gave up. By that time the charger was showing no lamps and 15.2 volts with a measured 0.8 amps. I think this confirms it is a non-smart charger and it is why it will charge but smart ones will not. This morning I looked up the data for Halford's chargers and as expected it was all marketing blurb and no proper technical specs. By extrapolation from the few figures given it appears that the chargers range in outputs from 2 amps to about 4 amps. There were no current markings on the chargers we had. There was also the "new" 115Ah Halfords leisure battery that registered 6.4 volts when I tested it. Again no Halfords charger would even show power when connected to it. On both the connected battery and the "new one" I tried connecting both the old charger plus a Halfords one in the hope that the old charger output would fool the new charger into thinking there was some charge in the batteries and work. All that did was to illuminate the "bulk" charge light on the Halfords charger even without it being plugged into the mains. My conclusion is as follows. The old original battery that I did not bother with but I was told it worked for some time probably had a degree of internal shorting so the charger never sensed that the battery was fully charged so it stayed in bulk charge and covered the loads. When that battery failed (probably shorted a cell) the new battery had far less internal discharge so the so called smart charger did fully charge it. Now, I am far from clear what they do at this point being "consumer, mass market items". They may just illuminate the "fully charged" lamp and turn themselves off or they may drop to a float voltage. I do not think the float voltage is enough to cover the load of the 10W lamps being on until after midnight so the battery gradually fully discharged and sulphated. The speed at which the voltage from the old transformer charger reached 15 volts (about an hour or less) tends to confirm gross loss of capacity. I think this may have been avoided if the "smart" charger was turned off and on again each day to force it back to "bulk" charge. In short I think its a very stupid charger ruining batteries. I have advised that the batteries be taken to a garage and charged with some beefy equipment. This may just knock some sulphate off the plates and reconvert a bit more. I have also advised that if the Halfords charger is to continue in use it MUST be turned off and on again each day but the real answer is a three stage "marine" type charger that will not turn itself off and will switch automatically back to "bulk"/"absorption" when a load goes on or the batteries discharge a bit. Although I do not like single battery boats because of starting issues in this case and with the use made of the electricity I think it will work once the charging and battery condition is sorted.

Hello all, just thought I would post a few of my paintings, some of you probably all ready know me, if not I hope you like them. thanks Pete Tuffrey

Hi! Having some problems with our boat electrics. Currently moored in a marina and plugged into shore power however still having power issues. Red light which indicates low power on the inverter comes on frequently. Also noticed today that the pump to pump hot water from log burner heated water to the radiators, controlled by a thermostat seems to be struggling and I'm assuming it's a power issue. But if I'm plugged into shore power why should any of this be happening? Also have a battery charger which indicates that it's on 'float'.....whatever that means. Currently have a bank of 4 domestic batteries.....completely clueless, can anyone help?... Thanks in advance

I think it's a problem with the warp drive you forgot to mention under the secondary motherships rear deck. Well, with the response from the OP to the relevant helpful questions, what else could I surmise.

Don't get one too big - remember you will need to be able to carry it off the boat - alternatively (and preferably) get a 'ready made' one from Thetford (it comes complete with a toilet)

Please can you all give Tony a lot of reputation points from me (as I don't know how to do it) for giving up his time to come and review the boat electrics and dying batteries? I am interested to read you responses to his post, especially the one about putting the charger on a timer (sounds eminently sensible to me as a 'know-nothing' person, in the light of Tony's advice). Also, can you all let me know what you think of the hyperlink posted by Arthur, as I don't know what it means?

If it keeps cows off my boat, I'm happy.

Couple of questions: 1) When doing a full charge, do ALL the cells bubble moderately well at the end of charge? 2) What are the SGs reading. I'd expect the answers may be 'no' and 'all over the place'. I often don't get satisfactory answers to these type of questions. Batts must be charged at the manufacturers temperature compensated charge voltage, people fail to appreciate that in winter with batts on a cold counter, this could be rather high and much higher than they expect! Also narrowboats are essentially a stationary application, so if the acid stratifies the only way to get it mixed is by electrolyte gassing during charge. All the answers are in a few paragraphs of The Battery FAQ, but people never pay attention to it. I think it's quite easy to recover sulphated batts, but there's no easy cheap off-the-shelf way of doing it, and it does take time. I suspect the Trojans are barely broken in, but rather sulphated.

Just be grateful it wasn't a tartan handbag............

to be honest, I think this book is of only limited relevance to canal boats in the UK. it tries to encompass everything - UK, US, marine, inland, GRP, aluminium, steel, all possible M&E systems, only a few of which are found on UK inland boats. I found Tony Brooks' free training notes more relevant to most issues. I gave my copy (of an earlier edition) away.

With this link, even with two boats it is just to clicks to see the details for either. "My Boats" (select correct boat) "View/Edit" Every detail of interest including BSS is shown.

I have now found the BW document I made reference to in this post...... Extracted info, which is at least consistent with Progress claimed 75 foot length. (Good luck though with following any instructions to "consult local waterways office" and asking "can I really navigate a 78 foot narrowboat from Braunston to Camp Hill!.....) GRANDUNIONCANAL Brentford Basin to Berkhamsted (lock 54) Maximum dimension Absolute maximum* Length: 72ft (21.95m) 76ft (23.16m) Beam: 14ft (4.27m) 14ft 3ins (4.34m) Draught: N/A N/A Headroom: 8ft 2ins (2.49m) N/A *Consult local waterway office Berkhamsted (above lock 54) – Braunston Maximum dimension Absolute maximum* Length: 72ft (21.95m) 76ft (23.16m) Beam: 12ft 6ins (3.81m) 13ft 8ins (4.16m) Draught: N/A N/A Headroom: 7ft 10ins (2.38m) *Consult local waterway office GRAND UNIONCANAL Braunston to head of Camp Hill Top Lock Maximum dimension Absolute maximum* Length: 72ft (21.95m) 78ft (23.77m) Beam: 12ft 6ins (3.81m) N/A Draught: N/A N/A Headroom: 6ft 6ins (1.98m) N/A *Consult local waterway office Additional Cruising notes: 1. Boats up to 14ft (4.27m) beam may be able to navigate this section, but some bridges have low arches and may not be passable, depending on cabin profile. 2. Locks are more than 14ft (4.27m) wide so two narrowboats can safely share.

Watch an amazing video from Hans Rosling and you won't be so pessimistic about our planet's future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1021&v=Sm5xF-UYgdg

You are probably doing the best you can within your circumstances just accept that you may have to spend £2 per week on a 'disposable item' Take the following actions : 1) get a couple of hundred watts of solar. 2) buy a set of the cheap batteries, look after them as you have previously and let the solar do the rest. (Even at this time of year you will get SOME benefit)

The world population will probably top out at 11 billion. We can feed 11 billion. Anyone who looks forward to a plague that killls 90% of the population is a psychopath! I hope you did not mean that?

Don't panic, I believe it is now quoted as the principle reason why almost nobody anywhere now views this site!

Log on to online licensing https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/licensing-your-boat Your BSC details should be there, mine are.

Bang on. But as we both accept, this is not going to happen. The 'elephant in the room' (I hate that phrase but can't think up a better one) is the human race needs to stop and reverse population growth or energy demand will continue to rise indefinitely. Same for food supply. Unless and until the Human Race takes effective steps to limit its size, energy demands (and food and water demands) will continue to rise.

To keep the noise down? I misread it as headboard!

I'm far from convinced this is the case. You overlook the fact that CRT regularly put forward some proposal or another, often employing third party consultants, and using large amounts of time and money for surveys and open meetings. In several of these I have been involved in the proposal either gets completely ditched, or at least 80% to 90% ditched, with very little of the original intent left in the end result. I actually think there is a great deal of support for the "by area" model of charging, (though I concede if I owned a wide-beam I might not support it!) Do i actually think "by area" charging will be an unwatered down outcome of this review? Probably not, based on past experiences. Do I think it will actively discourage people from filling up canals with boats to which they are ill suited? Almost certainly not. If you can afford £80K to £150K of boat to make your home, you will almost certainly not be deterred by licence costs maybe 50% higher than for an equivalent length narrow boat. Would I support it as a fairer system regardless? Probably, though my mind is far from fixed on the subject, and I will follow any reasoned debate on the topic, before taking a firmer view.

QED

Ok I'm on a different machine now and I can see all of Pete's paintings. I have to say I find ALL of them deeply pleasing to gaze at. I think its actually Pete's draughtsmanship that makes his work so pleasing. The boats look dead right, with perfect perspective. Few artists succeed in getting narrow boats looking dead right in my personal opinion. I'm very impresssed, Pete.

You wouldnt want mine then when in dock from tip of bow to very back of counter (not including the rudder) im at 72 feet and 1 & 1/4 inch. I was hoping it was a miss print when we get her but its not :-( Think ill try the welsh cut

Cor - give me a chance, Just got back covered in diesel smell so needed a bath and change of cloths before reporting back. Report When I got there the OP told me that he had not tried running with the fuel filler cap off because of a misunderstanding. This meant we could not rule out a blocked breather. The fuel filler was surrounded by an upstand but the trim of the boat was such that the fuel filler was submerged by collected rain water. We moped the water away, removed the filler cap and blew down the breather. The breather was clear and I advised that the filler O ring be changed regularly. Note to other boaters - I put the running with no filler cap at the top of my list above because it is so easy to do. The boat has both an agglomerator (water trap) and engine filter. The OP had only found the agglomerator and when he tried to drain it I think he had the fuel supply turned off so very little came out. Both filters were CAV 296 types and there was just one spare on on the boat (I consider on an older boat that as a bad sign). I also discovered the Mikuni failed at roughly the same time as the engine problems started - another indicator that there may be a fuel in the tank problem. I noted the Mikuni does not appear to have its own filter so I ignored it. That's more than I can sort out on a Saturday morning and it will not stop the boat moving. We removed the agglomeator and found a black slimy build up on the top of the filter, some water and black blobs in the bowl and very discoloured filter paper. In view of the water above the filler and the black stuff we tried to open the tank drain but it was stuck so we used my Pela oil changer to sample the bottom of the tank. The diesel at the bottom was far less pink that that higher in the tank and a lot of black was sucked through the pipe. Feeling the stuff on the top of the filter and the blobs from the bowl showed them to be both slimy and gritty so I am not so sure it is bug but if it is it is not too bad yet. In addition to the normal filter O rigs there was another ordinary round section ring wedged into the top of the filter in a manner that suggested that it may have been part trapped in the seal groove and part drawn down into the filter. the lower O ring was also too small. Either could have allowed the engine to suck air if there was any restriction in the tank area of pipe work. The old upper O ring was also very hard so we replaced it. We could not undo the "bleed point" on the agglomerator so bled it from the outlet port. I checked the gravity flow and it seemed good enough so there is probably no significant problems with the pickup pipe in the tank. We changed the engine filter that as expected was much cleaner with little sign of water but the element seems a bit heavier to me than they usually do when just saturated in diesel. The easiest place to bleed the filter, pipes & injector pump was by removing a rubber cap from one end of the leak off rail. This we did and I was able to assess the flow rate from the priming pump. It seemed fine to me. The engine started "on the button", very quickly smoothed out, and ran at 3000 rpm plus in gear as it should. Note to other readers: this marina is river fed and probably has a gravel bottom so there should be no issue with digging the odd hole in it with the prop. I advised the OP to use a biocide tank additive (Marine 16) ASAP and to carry spare filters so he can change them every month or so until he can see what they are catching. I noticed the the polyV Travelpower belt had shed one mini-V so I advised that he get it changed.

I would not use pva anywhere near an area that is likely get wet. Also depending on what the grout is made of it can have an adverse affect on it. http://www.tilersforums.co.uk/threads/pva-in-grout.52112/ https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/pva-and-why-you-shouldnt-use-it-as-a-tiling-primer.33645/

In a civilised society (which we once were) there would be state benefits etc to help those who are in desperate need. Alternatively you could say don't have children until you are in a position to afford them as most people do. Take your pick of which of the 2 alternatives you like best.

Or what about the council worker living in a tiny 2 bed terrace with wife and 3 v. young children getting by on one wage who suddenly has to pay poll tax for 2 adults and doubles what he had to pay in rates. Not a hope of paying that lot and ended up having to borrow to keep the bailiffs out. Meanwhile the property developer in the big house down the lane saw his rates disappear and he just paid one lot of poll tax. I remember working out that we could lose the gas if we kept the electric. Can never forgive Portillo for that even if he does like trains now.

So why is she living in a house that is far too big for her? The 'bedroom tax' was supposed to stop the plebs doing this, why should your poor little old lady have the right to do so? If she wants to pay less Council Tax get a smaller place to live in, it is her choice (unlike Poll Tax in which if you couldn't afford it, tough luck you still have to pay).

You'll do best to ignore any charts or recommendations from 'experts' as to how long to charge for. Simply charge until the tail current at absorption voltage is around 3% or less of the battery capacity in Ah, so for your 330Ah batteries that'll be less than 9A. Better still is as I've already suggested, when the charge current has stopped decreasing. It takes however long it takes, but expect something in the region of 6+ hours to go from 50% to 99.9%

Fully agree but at this stage there are considerations that Olive has alluded to in this topic that makes the charger or solar a non-starter. I fear at the moment its trying to make what they have do soem kind of a job for them.

it is hardly worth going over old ground again, suffice to say that whenever I paid the tax I took a mixed uncounted bag of coinage to the value of the owed amount to the council office since, due to the job I was doing any other form of protest would have cost me my job. How a system whereby let us say on a Poll Tax figure of £300 and a disposable income of £10,000 (this was back in 1990) I would pay 3% of my disposable income in Poll Tax, some deserving case, let us say Philip Green with his disposable income of a trifling £1.000.000 then has to stump up a staggering 0.03% of his disposable income to pay the tax, and that is fair is it? Al least your retired widow on a pension has the option of reducing her liability by downsizing, there was no escape from the Poll Tax, Let us perhaps try the the same system with income tax, flat rate it so that those at the bottom of the pile will have to pay substantially more so that those who already have more money than they know what to do with can pay less. The crappiest idea ever to come out of government and the rioting was fully justified

I have a 140w semi-flexible panel stuck down on a steel roof (in strong summer sun you can't keep your hand on the roof despite it being light grey). in those conditions I have had no problems with lower output from the panel with it producing around 10A @ >13v (over 130w) It may be worth noting that in the UK when the sun is strong enough to heat the panel too much is also the time when the panel has already done most of it's work in the morning before it got hot, so any loss of efficiency makes little to no difference over the whole day.

I am not a live aboard but I think I have extended the life of my batteries greatly by having solar panels, from a cost point of view, what is 3 hours without the noise of an engine running worth, to me its a lot. I hate nothing more than to be moored up with an engine running.

There is a potential problem with that....... no moving boats >excessive weed > any boats that want to move struggle > boaters tell everyone how difficult it was to travel the canal > fewer boats come. Did you know there are counters on certain locks to show how often it has been used? CRT know which canals get the most use and with limited funds they will direct the money for maintenance to the canals where it benefits most boaters > fewer boats = less maintance Enjoy your quiet canal while you can before it reverts to a ditch

Is it used for trail boat events?