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As far as i know they are all full up with over-staying widebeam boats.

Strewth. Give me strength. It's people who behave like this that are causing CRT to want to take more draconian action. Why do you need to wait to be told to move? Are you incapable of working it out for yourself. It's really not difficult.

I think I'll say this before leaving this forum for good. I've chatted and still chat on many forums, both to do with boats and other topics. In general this one has been informative helpful and often quite funny. However there is a cadre of people on here who seem to think they can talk to others in any way they see fit. I'm not talking about the content of their posts because a good debate is good fun. But one sometimes feels one is walking on eggshells because if one has the temerity to express a view it results - not in a debate - but vitriolic put downs. Sorry life's too short.

For the third time in two days I see people mixing up this forum with real life. Where exactly do you get the paranoia from Dean? No-one gives a toss whether you stay there as long as you're not abusing someone else's desire to use those facilities. Except.... the mass whingers of CWDF. As you demonstrated CRT don't care. The law on Visitor Moorings is obscure anyway (cue 15 pages of 'discussion' on the meaning of the words 'service' and 'restriction'. You are simply setting yourself up by bringing this real world non-problem into this hate filled cesspit. Perhaps counselling could get to the root cause of that?

Tackling the triumphs and tribulations of my recovery, I'm thinking of new ways to canal bash. As most of you know I own Juno, a 23 foot cruiser. In some ways she is both too big and too small. Too small to live on, too big to readily tow with an ordinary car. When I get my licence back next year I'll be sticking with smaller cars for a while until the insurance implications of become apparent. I suspect my premiums will be high. The ideal would probably be a 50-60 foot narrow boat and a tiny cruiser such as a Shetland 16: this is a pipe dream at the moment not least because the narrow boat would have to come first: using Juno as semi-liveaboard is doable, a Shetland 16 really not so! Anyway, scale the idea down a bit and I end up with Juno and a canoe... My taste in waterway exploration is not limited to the main canal system and certainly not just to those silly little ditches in the midlands. Juno can be trailed and can go on estuaries, that was the main reason for buying her, but a canoe can reach even further, The Neath Canal? The Avon through Chippenham? The Parret from Thorney Lock to Oath Lock? However, I will have limited storage, no garden and no garage, and will want to cart the thing round in a car (I doubt it is possible by bus, but someone may know different), so an inflatable canoe has appeal. Does anyone have any experience of these? I think a two person canoe as if someone wanted to join me that would save them needing their own canoe! Also, any suggestions as to juicy bit to explore on abandoned canals and rivers, I've some ideas, but others most welcome Thoughts?

I woke up this morning on a VM, which was empty except for me. I phoned CRT and asked if I could stay put, as there is plenty of space at the moment. I was told the reason I cant stay on the VM (even though it's currently empty), is because YOU LOT WILL COMPLAIN I'VE EXCEEDED THE 48HRS. So it seems that the real culprits causing all the hassles, is not CRT, who are more than willing to say...heyyy there's plenty of space at the moment....feel free to stay and enjoy until it gets to 75% full...........but BOATERS.....who have put the fear into CRT, that the balance has now swung too far the other way. I managed to extend my stay by 1 day, but if the VMs are still empty tomorrow, I guess I'll have to go moor on the river....not because I'm causing any problems where I am, but because boaters.....complain to CRT if I dont follow the signage to the letter. I could phone CRT again and say...it's still empty...can I stay another day.....but ..they are so worried someone's going to complain, that they'd rather I dont push it. SO THE PROBLEM IS NOT CRT. IT'S BOATERS. as seen by so many posts on this forum complaining about boats moored where they really aren't affecting anyone else. (15days on the towpath in the same place..).............but...ya know....rules are rules and all that. ;-0 It's no ones fault really....it's what happens when some boaters forget to be considerate to other boaters (obviously I would move the moment I saw the VM start filling up as that would be the right thing to do), so BigBrother have to enforce signage instead, costing us all a fortune I imagine. I am most grateful I have been told I can stay an extra day and not have to pay the £25 daily mooring rental fee. If I was a little wealthier, I'd just pay it and stay without having to beg.

So, sat up in bed contemplating my navel when it occurred to me that our CCing friends are missing a trick in responding to their opponents. We read a lot about how CCers are getting something for nothing and that the should pay more for street lamps and rubbish bins. However, I am really grateful that we have a dedicated first response team all over the network that can and will call in the right people when faced with issues such as maintenance and vandalism. In fact, just by moving a boat through ensures a canals survival. So, to the haters, doubters and even our masters, next time you think about complaining about continuous cruisers, consider them as waterways guardians and it may not seem so bad. (Maybe they should get a cheaper license for the work they do?) Enough, back to my navel! Rob (non CCer but gratful for em!)

You may have problems getting under the bridges.

. Oddly enough, earlier today I was going to string together some of the terms which had lewd connotations but I decided that it would be improper to do so with ladies present. Ho hum. You do realise that you may be tested on the Naming Of The Parts before being allowed near another broker?

So you see my point - NO other forum I've ever spoken on has seen fit to speak to other members like this. If Mr Pink is allowed to speak like this it is not a forum I want to be any part of. Thank god all the real people I've met on the canal aren't like you.

I think the problem may be that you had the temerity to stick your toe into Chris's "hate filled cesspit" make sure you extract it safely. Edited to add I'm currently moored well away from Visitor Moorings

It has gone rather quiet though hasn't it! Right. I have paid, over the course of my working life, quite a lot more income tax and national insurance contributions than most people. Whilst I agree partially with Carlt and Chris Pink and others about the 'unfair' difference in fuel prices for propulsion, red and white diesel etc., I can't seem to get my head around their point of view. In their opinion they think we should pay the same as road users for our diesel unless we have separate tanks for propulsion and generation. I'm not trawling through all the posts but I think it was Carlt who posted that Europe seems to have got their head around it so why shouldn't we. Well as far as I know, they pay less, not a lot I know but less, than we do. I may be wrong though. What I'm getting at is, I don't mind paying tax but I only want to pay the minimum amount I legally can. I've never been in the super league of tax payers but 25 years at 40% plus the massive hike in Ni contributions means I have paid my dues. If our tax money was used as frugally as the government are expecting us to live at the moment then I wouldn't moan about it but we all know there's a lot of money wasted left right and centre by not only this government but Brussels and previous governments of this wonderful country of ours. Doghouse has posted a link that has said our government don't want to implement what Brussels wants them to do. That should be good enough for anyone to accept that it isn't right for us to have to conform with Europe just because they say so. It may even cost more to collect the tax than it brings in in revenue. How mad is that, and yet some people welcome it. Why on earth should we pay more than we have to when a lot of it will just get wasted or eaten up with red tape. HMRC stated years ago that we can run our boats on red at a discounted rate. What's wrong with that? It's the law. We should abide by it. Just because they want to change the law it doesn't make them right. Just because some people, and it should be everyone, want to abide by the law and do what is best for them, it doesn't make them wrong. Rant over. I hope it makes sense although you don't have to agree. Steve P

I wouldnt know where to start to find all of this info if I wanted or needed it. I am amazed every day by the levels of input and information on this site and the time that people put into providing it.

Hello again, Appologies to the smug and sarcastic people who seemed slightly irritated by my oh so silly questions. One day I should have more experience in this game and perhaps then I will be fit to approach you. Although... But thanks to the others who were sympathetic and more decent. Fear not popcorn pillocks - I get the picture. I won't be renting. M.

In order to frighten off ANY dodgy interlopers, thieves or burglars you could always dress yourself up permanently in an attire akin to a complete and utter crazy, maniacal, lunatific mad imbecile by wearing an old, filthy and ragged string vest, old moth eaten bobble hat, dirty and holey shorts, busted spectacles, welly boots and perhaps an eye patch, train yourself to lather and dribble and foam at the mouth like a dog with Rabies, scream and shout incomprehensively as loud as possibe, twitching and throwing yourself about all at once with terrible terrible energy and violence. This behavior should frighten off the most toughest and hardened thief or criminal.

Ah, you'll fit in well with the boat-owning community!

Is this why you have 8,591 posts Chris? But it did make me laugh

Sorry to say this, Nick - your are part of the Old Guard now, and have been for some time Didn't you get the badge? Richard

I hope it doesn't make him go blind.

Luctor, perhaps you need to "stand out from the crowd". Maybe, after doing the course, you could offer different coloured coal. Even graduate to offering "coal painting" courses as a sideline? ......

I hope this is not the start of sending emails to Richard parry on what I would call minor issues. I think Richard parry has far more important issues to deal with. I have no problem with people raising what they consider to be a problem but why not send the email to the person who is responsible for that stretch of water. In this case that would be Manchester and Pennine Waterways david.baldacchino@canalrivertrust.org.uk (I think I am right that the stretch of canal mentioned in the OP comes in that area but as has been shown in another thread my geography is not that great) Lets keep Richard Parry focused on the bigger issues. There are a lot of people on here doing quite a lot about the state of the canal and many other issues. I personally have never come out of a Marina.

1. Wake up one morning in March and think, “painting the boat! Epic idea, and I’ve got that long weekend in April.” 2. Decide on a complex and highly convoluted colour scheme that involves lots of panels, coachlines, stripes and contrasts, because that dude in the marina did his boat last year and it looks awesome. 3. Buy tins of paint, brushes and sheets of sandpaper, optimistically congratulate yourself for being ready to start as soon as the long weekend in April comes around. 4. Eye up the outside of boat appraisingly every couple of days, thinking about how that rust will just sand right off and how easy it’ll be to follow the existing coachlines. 5. Tell everyone you’re painting the boat next month, and stand basking in their impressed if slightly sceptical mutterings. 6. Get advice from ten different people on how to go about it. Wonder at the maths that says ten people times boat painting advice = 15 answers. 7. Realise you might have been over optimistic in your belief that you could just wave a bit of sandpaper at the rust and slap some gloss on top. Buy paint scraper, Fertan and undercoat. 8. Nod sagely at your foresight in realising the potential problems with your original idea, draw out running order of how painting will go and how simple it all seems now that you are so much wiser. 9. Eagerly await long weekend in April. Should be able to get the bulk of it done over the three days, right? 10. Long weekend in April dawns to torrential rain, biblical flooding and tornado-style winds. Keep picking up paint scraper at every break in the weather, put it down again muttering angrily. Read the forum for a bit instead. 11. End of April. Scowl at people who ask how the boat painting is going, while your tins of paint and new brushes collect dust. 12. Mid May. OMG! Sunshine! Paint all of the things! 13. Figure you can sand and undercoat at least the roof and one side in one day, get to work. 14. End an eight hour day of blood, sweat, rust and tears with one gunnel just about acceptable enough to put undercoat on. 15. Wait two weeks for the next break in the weather. 16. Scrape, sand and generally beat the crap out of the boat, until it’s no longer fighting and all of the rust and remaining paint is cowering in fear. 17. AWESOME! Now you can do the undercoat. It’s a bit grubby from all of the shed rust though, so hire a pressure washer to clean it up with first. 18. Have an amazing time playing with the pressure washer, then aim it at the sanded, smooth keyed paint remaining after you prepped it. 19. Watch in abject horror as the pressure washer lifts whole strips of previously stuck fast paint off in layers. 20. Spend a long time crying in self pity, then even longer drinking the pain away. 21. Re-sand and prep the worst parts. 22. Re-pressure wash now that you are absolutely positively certain that there is NO loose paint left to come off. 23. Repeat points 20 through 22 a couple more times, before deciding that you’re never going near a pressure washer again and you’re just fecking well painting it now, regardless. 24. Undercoat boat to within an inch of its life. Smile tightly at passing boats that all, to a man, say either “you’ve missed a bit!” or “you can do mine next!” 25. Wake up following weekend planning to put on first layer of gloss. Observe undercoat isn’t actually dry, and really, should it be both the thickness and consistency of chewing gum? 26. Survey says “no.” 27. Wait another week for the undercoat to become more putty than chewing gum. Decide to paint over it anyway. Know that this is Incorrect but stick fingers in ears and hum, studiously avoiding eye contact with anyone who looks more closely. 28. Wonder how in the name of all that is good and holy you’re supposed to paint the underneath of the handrails, when however convinced you are that you’ve covered them, they are still clearly not done from certain angles. 29. Realise how shitey the roof looks due to your painting technique best being comparable (unfavourably) to a finger painting toddler, resolve to do better on the rest. 30. Paint sides and gunnels with surprising ease, due to surface being less pizza-like than the roof. 31. Measure out in precise distances how far the average person with reasonable eyesight has to be from the boat to miss the shocking workmanship and flaws, address areas that particularly stand out from eight feet away in dim light with no glasses. 32. Wonder why two weeks later there are still very slightly tacky patches of wrinkled paint on the roof that appear to be at least a couple of mm deep. See the light that paint shouldn’t be slapped on at the same consistency as glue. Too late. 33. Cover roof in plants and solar panels, then half-heartedly sand back and re-paint any areas not now covered in boat tat. 34. Decide against the painting in of panels and contrasting colours, start secretly wondering how ashamed of yourself you will be if you get vinyl stick-on coachlines. 35. Try masking up a tiny bit of coachline to paint. Observe result. Decide, not that ashamed of vinyl at all, actually. 36. Buy vinyl coachlines, apply, stand in shock at how well they worked out. Start eyeing up particularly bad patches of paint, wonder what else comes in vinyl that can be stuck on to cover it. 37. Acquire set of stick-on decals, apply artistically to various points on the bow and front of the boat where the paint is the worst. 38. Realise this actually looks ten times worse, but oh well, they’re there now. 39. Lose will to live and become increasingly frustrated at how however many times you undercoat and then paint contact areas (such as where the cover goes on or where the mooring line passes over the bow) and leave them to dry, the paint just rubs right off within days. 40. Decide to concentrate on the tiller, because it looks shocking and an elaborately painted tiller will really draw the eye. 41. Use all acquired wisdom of paint prepping, thickness of paint and technique to paint fracking AWESOME stripes on the tiller that impress even your neighbours, in the middle of the driest week of the year so far. 42. Hear rain two hours later. Learn what paint “blooming” is. Consider getting tree branch and going a bit Basil Fawlty on it. 43. Run out of ideas as to how to reach and prep/paint the tunnel bands. Leave the job there for a considerable amount of time, while “thinking.” 44. Decide you’ll actually just black up to the gunnels. One day. No, it still has not been done.

Oh for goodness sake......can you all just chill out and let Phil run his course I hope he has loads of responses and makes a killing.

ok then: This letter is addressed to Richard Parry if that’s not you would you please ensure it gets passed onto him Dear Mr Parry. This open letter was put on The canal world forum by me, hopefully you will you will get further communications from other members that have also recognised the beauty on this stretch of canal That way there will be more than one letter on record of the contents. I would respectfully like to draw your attention to the outstanding natural beauty existing on the Trent and Mersey canal Between Middlewich and bridge 217. The overgrown trees and vegetation on the offside of the canal , also the reed beds create a fantastic habitat for lots of varied wildlife. There are numerous bends on this stretch, so one needs to go slowly to avoid collisions, but this only gives one more time to appreciate the beauty and spot many different birds. I've been on this stretch for a week now - Bramble Cuttings is a most excellent mooring as are the other ones provided. Anyways, i wont take up any more of your valuable time, just wanted to give you some feedback on how lovely this natural stretch is - It's what the Shroppie could be like if the SUCC weren't intent on turning chunks of it into a short-stop, manicured, water fairway Keep up the good work! regards Lone Good point, well made keep up the good work!

Great! I'll post then! If the canal is "one lane" wide, then there is no right or wrong side. There's the bit you drive down. There's bends on all canals, most of which you can't see round. You also can't see round bends on other modes of transport, eg roads, railways. It seems to be a common feature of transport infrastructure. Privately owned boats including share boats are also used for holidays. And some hirers are more experienced than private boat owners. And the vast majority of hire boaters (no matter the experience) are able to appreciate dangers and drive the boat accordingly. Being on the roof is not illegal, neither is there a requirement to wear a life jacket on the canal network. I'm happy to let boaters determine their own risks to themselves and their passengers. Can you draw a diagram of how on earth 2 narrowboats in a narrow channel are going to be able to broadside collide? If anything, they'll collide head to head, but this is extremely rare occurrence. In fact, its possible to drive slightly into the reeds and pass in this section. I've done it many times. If I put my boat in reverse, it slows down, for an instantaneous piece of time it will be stationary, then it will go backwards. Oh, and I can steer in reverse. "God forbid that the collision will be between two hire boats." Are these kind of collisions worse than others? What about a hire boat hitting a private boat? Or a hire boat hitting a stationary object, etc. PS I may take on your suggestion to email Richard Parry and tell him not to worry about the reeds.

Ally, NB terminology:

A few facts: When the OP passed the Battlestone and Fusedale on the afternoon of Wednesday 24th July, news of the closure of the Whitwood Wharf and therefore the ending of the Besthorpe - Whitwood gravel traffic had only just been announced, possibly less than an hour previously. I was telephoned the following morning by John Branford - who operates 3 boats on this run and co-ordinates the remaining vessels - with the whole sorry story. The first he knew that the final load was to be delivered on Wednesday 31st July - just seven days hence - was via a phone call from the local Lafarge Tarmac manager on Wednesday afternoon. To say that he was still in a state of shock when he phoned me would be an understatement. From time to time I crew for him on that run and we are both absolutely gutted. The explanation he was given was that the current 'Whitwood Operation' was making a loss as 4/5th of the aggregate landed there is forwarded by wagon to other, local Lafarge concrete batching plants. So just one fifth of the aggregate landed at Whitwood is used on site, in their own concrete plant (which is to remain open, supplied by road) while the remainder is forwarded to the four other plants. It appears that this double handling is the main financial stumbling block. At no point in the conversation with the Lafarge manger was the quality of the material at Besthorpe Quarry mentioned, nor that Girton was to be a replacment for the material running out at Besthorpe ............. which as far as anyone knows - isn't!!. Over a very considerable number of years John has operated a range of craft for Lafarge and their predecessors from various pits up and down the Trent, landing the aggregates in Leeds before Whitwood came on stream. Previously he carried glassmaking sands to Knottingley and when a riverside pit closed, he briefly (and reluctantly) went into the road haulage business simply to keep the sand traffic going. This is quite a testiment to his comittment to water transport and it represents an immense loyalty to the company he has carried for over a considerable number of years. To be repaid for this with seven days notice of cessation of carriage is a very poor reward indeed, and altogether pretty shabby treatment. It is ironic that in a conversation, only a month or so earlier, with the same manager tasked with breaking Wednesday's news, John was reassured that his operation looked very secure (backed up by new investment at Whitwood) - although said manager was very nervous about keeping his job in the light of the recent Lafarge - Tarmac merger. As anyone out on the NE waterways will testify, John keeps his three boats - Humber Renown, Farndale and Fossdale - in beautifull condition and invests heavily in their upkeep. He is continually chasing new cargoes but shortage of wharfage and the demand for carriage at an unrealistic rate are constant impediments. Whilst John - who has been a skipper for more than 50 years - is 3 years past retirement age, he is anxious to maintain the family barging business for his son who now represents the fourth generation of bargemen. In the past quarry management have always showed a willingness to involve John in any negotiations from setting tonnage rates, through general problem solving, to the design of wharfage - indeed he helped design the set up at Whitwood. It will indeed be a great pity if the directors of Lafarge Tarmac continue with the "there is nothing to discuss" attitude when presented with the opportunity of a meeting to examine possible ways to compromise in resolving this issue.

When I first joined the forum I asked lots of questions that had been asked before. The search facility on here is a bit pants but it wasn't just that - I just didn't consider that it had been asked before - why would I? As far as I knew at the time this was a brand new question that no one had asked before. I was clearly fortunate that I wasn't derided and was offered some damn good advice rather than popcorn. It does get tiresome I'm afraid - let's not be so smug please - we should never be an elite club that makes newbies feel silly for asking a polite question.

The best so far was on the Macc. A chap warned us that there be Vandals at Stoke. He was watching T.V. at 2130 when all the lights went out! Some Vandal had chucked his generator from the rear deck, into the cut! Classic.!!!