WW2 unexploded bombs in Birmingham's canals - are there any?

[Laurence Hogg]

Illustrated below is a bomb map of the biltz on Birmingham. The red dots are high explosive bombs, the black dots are incendiary bombs. With the "hole" in the canal just off Gas St on the Worcs B'ham I just wonder if that was a UXB, I suggested this to Ian Lane (acting manager) who admitted it had never crossed his mind. Just look how many hits are near the canals, and that's the ones they have identified. There were rumours of UXB's in Tyseley near the old BSA factory but how many more may there be?

 

Three years ago I found a small German incendiary in my back garden, unexploded the main body had rotted away and the material was jut rust and powder, however the tail fin remained which I kept as a souvenir, Willenhall suffered Incendry attacks and my old house was close to Tildersleys factory, a known target.

 

The resolution isn't brilliant but here's the map:

 

 

[pete harrison]

I suspect there are numerous unexploded Second World War bombs in the canal.

 

When I was living at Sherborne Street Wharf in the early 1980's 'Caggy' Stevens was involved in dredging there (after a fashion), but stopped and left when it was reported that an unexploded bomb lay beneath the canopy of the F.M.C. Ltd. warehouse. I do remember there being a missing corrugated roof panel where the bomb allegedly passed through - my boats were often tied beneath it .

[cotswoldsman]

Illustrated below is a bomb map of the biltz on Birmingham. The red dots are high explosive bombs, the black dots are incendiary bombs. With the "hole" in the canal just off Gas St on the Worcs B'ham I just wonder if that was a UXB, I suggested this to Ian Lane (acting manager) who admitted it had never crossed his mind. Just look how many hits are near the canals, and that's the ones they have identified. There were rumours of UXB's in Tyseley near the old BSA factory but how many more may there be?

 

Three years ago I found a small German incendiary in my back garden, unexploded the main body had rotted away and the material was jut rust and powder, however the tail fin remained which I kept as a souvenir, Willenhall suffered Incendry attacks and my old house was close to Tildersleys factory, a known targ

 

Completely off topic Laurance but is Ian still acting manager? If he is then I am amazed that he has not been appointed full time as it certainly seems Dean is not coming back

[Bee]

Dunno about Brum but having been up and down the R. Somme it crossed my mind that if I got stuck on the mud I ought to be a bit careful prodding around with a long shaft.

[Pluto]

 

This is the aqueduct at Kedzierzyn on the Gliwice Canal in Upper Silesia, Poland. It was built in the 1930s as part of the Adolf Hitler Canal, and towards the end of the war the arches on the right were supposedly filled with high explosive. It is suggested that no one has checked as any disturbance could set them off.

[tree monkey]

this is an interesting site but unfortunately only seems to show London

 

http://bombsight.org/#17/51.50788/-0.08511

[Guest]

There must be many undiscovered bombs in our cities. My daughter lives in Cologne alongside the Rhine, and the discovery of unexploded bombs of ours is a weekly event it seems.

[Richard T]

I'm currently working on a project in Dagenham where before piles are driven to support the buildings an unexploded ordanance survey has to be undertaken at considerable expence!

[Laurence Hogg]

Completely off topic Laurance but is Ian still acting manager? If he is then I am amazed that he has not been appointed full time as it certainly seems Dean is not coming back

 

Yes he still is as of yesterday.

[davey b]

Having recently left the job running the MoD Ops Room for all UK bomb disposal, I can point people in the direction of the info on this but br prepared to face difficulties in actually getting the info as the authorities tend to want to keep it quiet for a number of good reasons.

 

There will likely be a few bombs still in canals but there was a lot of clearance done in the 50s and most would have been removed from the canals as a priority. Some will have gone too deep to deal with sensibly whilst maintaining services in the area but to reassure people if they're that deep they'll remain and age safely unless interfered with.

 

The bomb mapping website is hoping to expand into other cities and the info is from the original ARP mapping. Records of clearances have changed ownership so are a little problematic to chase.

 

I'd be happy answer pm questions with a due sense of security... FOI requests don't generally work in this area as the records are manual and FOI has a reasonable cost limit

Having recently left the job running the MoD Ops Room for all UK bomb disposal, I can point people in the direction of the info on this but br prepared to face difficulties in actually getting the info as the authorities tend to want to keep it quiet for a number of good reasons.

 

There will likely be a few bombs still in canals but there was a lot of clearance done in the 50s and most would have been removed from the canals as a priority. Some will have gone too deep to deal with sensibly whilst maintaining services in the area but to reassure people if they're that deep they'll remain and age safely unless interfered with.

 

The bomb mapping website is hoping to expand into other cities and the info is from the original ARP mapping. Records of clearances have changed ownership so are a little problematic to chase.

 

I'd be happy answer pm questions with a due sense of security... FOI requests don't generally work in this area as the records are manual and FOI has a reasonable cost limit

I'll edit that later on the laptop?

[Tony Dunkley]

Having recently left the job running the MoD Ops Room for all UK bomb disposal, I can point people in the direction of the info on this but br prepared to face difficulties in actually getting the info as the authorities tend to want to keep it quiet for a number of good reasons.

 

There will likely be a few bombs still in canals but there was a lot of clearance done in the 50s and most would have been removed from the canals as a priority. Some will have gone too deep to deal with sensibly whilst maintaining services in the area but to reassure people if they're that deep they'll remain and age safely unless interfered with.

 

The bomb mapping website is hoping to expand into other cities and the info is from the original ARP mapping. Records of clearances have changed ownership so are a little problematic to chase.

 

I'd be happy answer pm questions with a due sense of security... FOI requests don't generally work in this area as the records are manual and FOI has a reasonable cost limit

Having recently left the job running the MoD Ops Room for all UK bomb disposal, I can point people in the direction of the info on this but br prepared to face difficulties in actually getting the info as the authorities tend to want to keep it quiet for a number of good reasons.

 

There will likely be a few bombs still in canals but there was a lot of clearance done in the 50s and most would have been removed from the canals as a priority. Some will have gone too deep to deal with sensibly whilst maintaining services in the area but to reassure people if they're that deep they'll remain and age safely unless interfered with.

 

The bomb mapping website is hoping to expand into other cities and the info is from the original ARP mapping. Records of clearances have changed ownership so are a little problematic to chase.

 

I'd be happy answer pm questions with a due sense of security... FOI requests don't generally work in this area as the records are manual and FOI has a reasonable cost limit

I'll edit that later on the laptop

 

At about the time the coal traffic from the Moira cut ( Ashby) to the paper mills finally finished BW were doing a bit of dredging and after only a few grabs they fished a bomb out from virtually under the bridge at Market Bosworth wharf.

It was a bit alarming because until then you'd felt a bump on something hard and solid every time loaded boat used to go under that bridge. The reputation the Germans have for building stuff to last is obviously well deserved.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[Derek R.]

It's estimated that 90 tons of ordnance is still being ploughed up every year from the fields of Northern France and Belgium from the artillery launched during the first WW. Some of it in need of controlled detonation.

 

Sleep tight.

[Machpoint005]

As for WWII ordnance actually in the canals of Birmingham (or anywhere, for that matter) are there any pounds that haven't been dewatered at some point between 1945 and now? I think it's fairly unlikely, but I doubt that there are any records to be inspected.

 

...but some might say that a bomb or two under Birmingham might (on balance) be a Good Thing.

[Guest]

It's estimated that 90 tons of ordnance is still being ploughed up every year from the fields of Northern France and Belgium from the artillery launched during the first WW. Some of it in need of controlled detonation.

 

Sleep tight.

That is a quite stunning amount.

[Tim Lewis]

this is an interesting site but unfortunately only seems to show London

 

http://bombsight.org/#17/51.50788/-0.08511

 

In 2008 during the construction of the new Three Mills lock an enormous WW2 bomb was encountered. The controlled explosion took out some substantial sheet piling.

 

http://www.mby.com/news/world-war-ii-bomb-unearthed-at-prescott-lock-32926

 

Tim

[Derek R.]

About twelve years ago when we lived in St Albans there was groundwork going on behind a garden centre on the Hatfield Road approximately one and a half miles from where we lived. I was sat on the floor in the upstairs bedroom sifting through some stuff one Sunday morning when the room - and the house moved four inches one way and back again. It was unbelievable. Seconds after, there was a huge whoosh like a jet had passed close overhead - but no roar of any engine. I got up and went outside to see people coming out of their houses and looking bemused at one another and eventually to the skies in the distance where a plume of smoke rose. The whoosh was the shock wave.

 

Turns out the Army had been called in to destroy an unexploded 500lb bomb that the groundworks team had discovered. It wasn't publicised due to the fear of drawing a crowd which may have endangered themselves by their proximity. That was a 500 pounder over a mile away - makes you realise just how it might have been during an air raid much closer.

[tree monkey]

About twelve years ago when we lived in St Albans there was groundwork going on behind a garden centre on the Hatfield Road approximately one and a half miles from where we lived. I was sat on the floor in the upstairs bedroom sifting through some stuff one Sunday morning when the room - and the house moved four inches one way and back again. It was unbelievable. Seconds after, there was a huge whoosh like a jet had passed close overhead - but no roar of any engine. I got up and went outside to see people coming out of their houses and looking bemused at one another and eventually to the skies in the distance where a plume of smoke rose. The whoosh was the shock wave.

 

Turns out the Army had been called in to destroy an unexploded 500lb bomb that the groundworks team had discovered. It wasn't publicised due to the fear of drawing a crowd which may have endangered themselves by their proximity. That was a 500 pounder over a mile away - makes you realise just how it might have been during an air raid much closer.

It's amazing really how little damage was actually done, with one or two exceptions of course, when considering the amount of explosive and incendiaries dropped

[BEngo]

There was an awful lot dropped, but not much of it ended up where it was aimed at. At one stage the RAF's Circular Error Probable ( the diameter of the circle in which 50% of bombs actually fall) was about 5miles- so 50% of bombs were more than 5 miles from their aiming point. the USAAF were no better and I believe the Luftwaffe were only a little better.

 

Later in the war gyro bomb-sights made things better and then specialised training and weapons meant things like a viaduct or V-weapon sites could realistically be targeted by specialists.

 

The big damage to cites was done by firestorms caused by incendiaries, but even there the effect on factory production was less than hoped for.

 

N

[tree monkey]

There was an awful lot dropped, but not much of it ended up where it was aimed at. At one stage the RAF's Circular Error Probable ( the diameter of the circle in which 50% of bombs actually fall) was about 5miles- so 50% of bombs were more than 5 miles from their aiming point. the USAAF were no better and I believe the Luftwaffe were only a little better.

 

Later in the war gyro bomb-sights made things better and then specialised training and weapons meant things like a viaduct or V-weapon sites could realistically be targeted by specialists.

 

The big damage to cites was done by firestorms caused by incendiaries, but even there the effect on factory production was less than hoped for.

 

N

Germany arms production actually increased as the war continued, even in face of the increased accuracy of the bombing campaign

[Laurence Hogg]

As for WWII ordnance actually in the canals of Birmingham (or anywhere, for that matter) are there any pounds that haven't been dewatered at some point between 1945 and now? I think it's fairly unlikely, but I doubt that there are any records to be inspected.

 

...but some might say that a bomb or two under Birmingham might (on balance) be a Good Thing.

 

Some of the long pounds haven't been dewatered which is where some are suspected to be, its seems odd most civil engineering contractors survey for uxb's but BW seems to overlook the chance they may have some, the are round Sampson Rd and Tyseley is quite a hot spot.

[Derek R.]

It's amazing really how little damage was actually done, with one or two exceptions of course, when considering the amount of explosive and incendiaries dropped

 

The inhabitants of Dover, Plymouth, Bristol, Cardiff, Pembroke, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Birmingham, Coventry, London and many other towns - and villages might disagree with that. Likewise Dresden and I'm sure an equivalent number of German towns. Granted the ordnance manufactured was massive, but the destruction no less due to the effective volume being less.

[tree monkey]

 

The inhabitants of Dover, Plymouth, Bristol, Cardiff, Pembroke, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Birmingham, Coventry, London and many other towns - and villages might disagree with that. Likewise Dresden and I'm sure an equivalent number of German towns. Granted the ordnance manufactured was massive, but the destruction no less due to the effective volume being less.

I take your point I really do dresden, hamburg and Coventry were prime examples of bombing working and it was horrific but overall it was a remarkably ineffective method considering the amount of ordnance dropped

[davey b]

It is partly the psychological effect that was relied upon. Changes or differences in the public collective spirit are important. Look at the difference in the attitude of the Vietnamese in the face of carpet bombing... lots more ordnance dropped there.

 

Surely even if not dewatered, they will have been dredged once in 70 years? It is likely that most heavy bombs will be deeper than CRT will need to go whereas the foundations of tall building go very deep particularly in difficult soil areas