My boat has sunk in Kingston (1939 ww2 wooden motor cruiser)

[Marcuswarry]

Hello lovely boating friends!

 

Sadly this morning I was met with the rather sad image of my 1939 wooden motor cruiser largely submerged in the Thames... The wheelhouse is popping out... And she's resting on the river bed.

I'd post an image, but can't from my phone... If you're on the 'london boaters' Facebook group, you can have a gander at the sad & sorry situation!

 

I'm trying to work out a way of getting afloat again using tractor inner tubes, and hefty pumps... And someone on london boaters sensibly suggested asking if any of you guys and girls have any experience of this, with CarlT being mentioned a few times?!

 

Sorry to bother you, on this lovely sunny Sunday. A huge thank you in advance for any help of advice you're able to offer!

 

Everyone is safe, and that's the main thing!!

 

Marcus

Xxx

[RLWP]

Wrap the hull in tarpaulins and use big pumps is the usual way

 

Richard

Edited July 27, 2014 by RLWP

[magnetman]

I just came through Kingston today and didn't notice it

 

That's sad news.

 

You could try Turks as they have salvage gear but a pro salvage is probably more than boat value...

[Wanted]

As I said on FB Marcus, CarlT may have some advice, Richard is on the money though..

 

Here's a pic

 

And before.

 

Hope all gets sorted and glad everyone is safe

 

[carlt]

 

Is the river level likely to drop at all?

 

If not I would go and buy a couple of rolls of builder's plastic, wrap it around the top of the hull using the stanchions and rear cabin to support the plastic, stapling it to the top of the hull.

 

Chuck a pipe attached to a big petrol pump in the boat and wait for it to come up. If it doesn't start to rise keep adding pumps.

 

Don't bother with tarps as they are not flexible enough to mould to the shape of the boat.

 

Things like inner tubes and the like just get in the way.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Oh no, So sorry to see that,

A cpl of the cheapest thin tarps,to put around the hull covering any protrusion that could tare the plastic.Then as Carlt says Go to a builder's merchant and get some DPM (Damp Proof Membrane), & wrap the hull fixing it in place with maybe some Roofs battens into the Gunwhale Rubbing Strake, then a cpl of pumps going should do the trick . You could put a few Big inner tubes,into a cpl of ton builders bags, which are then fixed together with a Strong Ratchet strap passed Under the keel like a cradle out side the boat to hold or assist when 'Afloat'

Do you know why it sank ! if it's Holed, Plank or seam gave way, or a seacock failed ? Anti syphen failed on sea toilet ?.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Peter X]

Maybe a bunch of us should turn up one day to help Marcuswarry do a DIY salvage operation, once the equipment is organised?

I have no relevant experience apart from some basic DIY, but could bring some cakes/biscuits and follow instructions from those who know what to do...

[Wanted]

Providing it's not the weekend a head I can help in evenings etc.

[bizzard]

I wouldn't stuff inner tubes into the cabin space through the windows and under the coach roof, as there's a very good chance that the coach roof will just break away and float off.

[Marcuswarry]

Wow, you're all amazing people!

 

Thanks for all your advice and support!!! It sounds like the builders membrane and large pumps is the way forward... And I'll try to cobble together reasonable equipment from boating friends... Peter & Wanted, your offer to help me, and the offer of cakes is movingly kind!!! I'll keep you all posted on the developments, and it would be amazing if you came along to join in!!!!!

 

I'm not sure why it sank, but it's possibly to do with the stern gland... It's taken on more water since some essential work was done to the gearbox.... It used to sit for 3 weeks, without needing pumping out... This time.. It was just over a week... And this happened. It's a steep learning curve for me sadly.

 

Thanks for all your amazing help and support!

 

Mx

[RLWP]

When she is up, first thing we need to do is get the water out of the engine and gearbox

 

Richard

[carlt]

When she is up, first thing we need to do is get the water out of the engine and gearbox

 

Richard

Second thing surely?

 

First thing is plug the holes so she doesn't go down again.

 

Oh no, So sorry to see that,

A cpl of the cheapest thin tarps,to put around the hull covering any protrusion that could tare the plastic.Then as Carlt says Go to a builder's merchant and get some DPM (Damp Proof Membrane),

Not DPM, Builder's plastic.

 

DPM, like tarps is just not flexible enough to mould around the hull.

 

I wouldn't bother with wrapping the hull either but block the leaks when the boat starts floating with any knackered soft furnishings in the boat (foam and futon stuffing make great emergency caulking).

 

The builder's plastic is fastened just below the gunwales upwards to raise the sides of the boat above the water level, not plug holes in the hull.

Edited July 27, 2014 by carlt

[Tony Brooks]

Be aware that wooden boats with along solid wooden keel often have the hole through the shaft log and keel drilled well oversize for the sterntube. The flange on the outboard shaft bearing and on the stern gland screw onto the sterntube and the flange are coach screwed to the log & keel. The upshot is that on older boats water can leak into the gap between the tube and log/keel and from there past the gland flange into the boat. This can get confused with a leaking sterngland.

 

My old boss told me that traditionally that gap was packed with a mixture of white lead and grease but being unable to find a ready source of white lead we mixed putty and grease to a thick consistency but one that would still pass through a grease gun with no nozzle on the end. that would.

 

There is usually a metal plate (tingle) or wooden plate covering a hole in the upper surface of the shaft log. Metal usually held down with copper naiis but wood often screwed. Under this is usually a hole into which the grease gun was used to repack that gap. On the odd boat i have had to drill one but for goodness sake do not go through the sterntube as well.

 

I am not saying this is the problem but you need to know about the possibility. It could also be coming from an area of caulking & stopping that has fallen out, potentially between the keel and lower planking.

[craftycarper]

I don't know if it's normal practice but I saw a boat sink a few years and the owners with friends were failing miserably with pumps and buckets then the fire brigade came along stuck a monster pump in it and it was back up in minutes don't know if you would have to call the fire brigade as it was sinking or weather they would come along after the event but may be worth a call

[carlt]

I don't know if it's normal practice but I saw a boat sink a few years and the owners with friends were failing miserably with pumps and buckets then the fire brigade came along stuck a monster pump in it and it was back up in minutes don't know if you would have to call the fire brigade as it was sinking or weather they would come along after the event but may be worth a call

 

I have refloated 50+ boats over the years and wouldn't dream of bothering the emergency services.

 

To each his own but I really think they have better things to do.

 

When my boat was torched and the Fire Brigade attended they did, however, sink it for me when I asked them to.

[craftycarper]

I have refloated 50+ boats over the years and wouldn't dream of bothering the emergency services.

 

To each his own but I really think they have better things to do.

 

When my boat was torched and the Fire Brigade attended they did, however, sink it for me when I asked them to.

. Fully respect your experience with floating boats but I think if my home was sat on the bottom of a river I would justifiably consider it an emergency

[carlt]

. Fully respect your experience with floating boats but I think if my home was sat on the bottom of a river I would justifiably consider it an emergency

 

But once it is sat on the bottom the FB and their big pump are a cheap convenience, not an essential, a bit like asking them to sweep up the ashes and fix the roof after they've put the house fire out.

[Tony Brooks]

However approached in a suitable way with the offer of expenses they might rather like to treat it as a training exercise - but in their time, not yours.

[Barry]

The local station might be willing to treat the pump out as a training exercise.

 

On the other hand they might pump the boat as a "paid special service call". Brigades differ in charges for that I think but the standard cost for an appliance with crew was around £360 per hour a few years ago when I last had to think about it. It could well be a lot more now.

 

To see if they will pump it out as a training exercise you could try knocking on the door of the local station and asking.

 

If it is an un-manned retained fire station (assuming you are not lucky enough to drop in on a drill night) Just look in the yellow pages for the local fire brigade HQ and ask to speak to the Officer in Charge of the local station. That person might agree to help you out or they might refer it upwards for a decision on a paid special service call

 

ETA A little googling found this chap - he's the guy to speak to

 

Borough Commander

John Elwell

Tel: 020 8555 1200 x 54811
Email: SWPerformanceManagement@london-fire.gov.uk

Fire stations in this borough:

• Kingston (H41)
  390 Richmond Road
  KT2 5PR
• Surbiton (H39)
  31/33 Ewell Road Surbiton
  KT6 6AF

Edited July 27, 2014 by Bazza2

[smileypete]

Sorry to hear of this

 

Would have thought a 3" petrol pump or 'trash pump' for £60/day in a decent enough size boat alongside may have the best chance.

 

Might want to locate a source of thin ply in case plastic sheet isn't enough for getting some 'freeboard'. Wickes in Kingston may be cheapest, they will at least have plastic sheet, or there's a timber yard next to the local Screwfix.

 

I'm about 40 mins away so could help if you're short of hands, but haven't done this sort of thing myself... .

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited July 27, 2014 by smileypete

[John Williamson 1955]

It looks as though the cabin top can be made watertight above the gunwales without too much bother, and if it's only a stern gland leak that's sunk her, then a decent petrol pump on a boat next to her should do the job without too much drama. Maybe a tarpaulin nailed to the hull round the gunwales with some thin lath to hold it in place?

 

Wrapping her with a membrane as has been suggested would involve lifting her slightly somehow, possibly using a big boat at each end, to get the sheet between the keel and the river bed.

[Guest]

a terrible thing. Hope the boat is raised without any more problems.

[John Williamson 1955]

a terrible thing. Hope the boat is raised without any more problems.

This too, of course. I've had boats sink on me before, and it's no fun.

[churchward]

It looks as though the cabin top can be made watertight above the gunwales without too much bother, and if it's only a stern gland leak that's sunk her, then a decent petrol pump on a boat next to her should do the job without too much drama. Maybe a tarpaulin nailed to the hull round the gunwales with some thin lath to hold it in place?

 

Wrapping her with a membrane as has been suggested would involve lifting her slightly somehow, possibly using a big boat at each end, to get the sheet between the keel and the river bed.

No it doesn't a plastic membrane would be used the same as the tarp you suggest but is much much more flexible.

[magnetman]

I see its on the mid river trot moorings behind the Small Boat Club island.

Therefore any pumps will need to be situated on other boats not on land so the fire brigade are probably going to charge a lot of money.

 

I also think the boats hull may be in bad condition and that it is actually a wreck.

 

I know its bad but that is IMO

 

I know a Nb which sank to the bottom near there and it was nearly ten grand to raise it using a crane, apparently.

 

I suppose the Nb was probably covered by insurance and the insurance company probably insisted on paying for a 'professional' job where Carlt and/or others could sort it fairly easily