St Helens Canal. Sankey Brook.

[Burgiesburnin]

I was brought up close to the above. 5 streets one way and across a playing field the other as the canal curved round us.

The over the field bit, below the Burgies was by then virtually dry but the Pocket Nook section was alive and well for fisherman. I have no recolection of ever seeing any form of barge or boat on this section of canal. Born in 1955 so the period I am talking about was early 60,s.

Does anyone have any photos of this area or even of a barge with St Helens based company artwork?

[Pluto]

I served my time at Pilks Cowley Hill Works, so not far from the Burgies. I was more interested in railways as an apprentice, and only discovered canals around 1970. This is the only photo I took of St Helens that I can find, taken in the early 1970s. I have more of the Widnes end of the canal.

[Burgiesburnin]

Thanks for this. It really looks to be in a very sorry state.

Its been tidied up a bit now but moreso in town at the Hotties where the main Pilkington Glass works were.

The Hotties [i,m sure that you know them] are almost a part of the Glass Museum although in the carpark of the local Asda.

[Pluto]

I had six months at the apprentice school in the Central works, so got to know the Hotties then. Although I think the fate of the canal is a little sad, far worse is the fact that the sort of apprenticeship I had at Pilks is no longer available - five years, with six months in almost every department from furnaces to cranes to glass handling, power station work, and in the loco sheds. I don't think there is anything like that today.

[Burgiesburnin]

No, nothing like that anymore. St Helens was the centre of glass years ago and still was when I was a kid growing up there. It's a real shame that the first canal of the "modern" age has been left to deteriorate to the extent that it has.

I understand that there is a local conservation society but I think that they would only be able to restore certain sections.

Following the original course on the canal and what has now been put in its way and where it has been filled its obvious that any future navigation would be impossible.

[Heartland]

Certain sections have had attention from preservation societies. 2 parts near the Mersey still have access to the canal and are used as moorings. Being an early canal navigation, that was constructed, at least in part before the Bridgewater, this waterway deserves much more attention.

 

Ray Shill

[nebulae]

Pity that navigation is not possible between Fiddlers Ferry and Widnes .Now that the entrance to both ends of the section bypassing the Upper Merseyare open,this section could fulfil its origional purpose .Pity about the lock keepers cottage at Fiddlers Ferry. A modest but atractive property ,Would probably sell in todays market for over £200,000 .I seem to remember that the Fiddlers Ferry Inn only sold beer in 1/2 pints for many years.I was told it was to stop workers at the power station from imbibing to much .No idea if this is true. The main thing preventing through navigation between Widnes and Fiddlers Ferry is some sort of water chanel associated with the power station .I remember speeking to the B.W.B. area engineer just after closure .His view was that as trade had finished there was no vertue in retaining the canal. Amenity use was not even on the agenda .I have a vague recollection of the canal dredger.It was a steam driven barge with a Prieistman type crane .Somehow the crane engine drove a propellor through gears.I might be dreaming about this.As an asside,when West Bank Dock(the other side of Runcorn Widnes Bridge) was filled in,the dredger was dragged into the lock and hacked to bits.I think much of it may be in the filled in lock still.This must have been a fasinating area in its heyday,with sailing flats trading between the St.Helens canal,the Bridgewater and the Runcorn and Latchford Canal.To digress even further,does anybody else remember the barges,cranes etc.from Liverpool Docks being cut up on the forshore at Widnes.(around 1972)The Upper Mersey Navigation Commisioners were the navigation authority for the Mersey(Ithink from somewhere above Eastam to Warrington.)They had a crane barge called the Jessie Wallwork which used to be moored under the Runcorn bridge .Appologies for this ramble!

[Pluto]

Does this view of West Bank Dock around 1975 bring back any memories:

 

Or perhaps this of the wooden flat remains at Spike Island in 1975:

[nebulae]

Yes,thats how I remember it .A couple of years earlier I remember seeing a couple of yachts moored in the dock .I seem to remember railway wagons still in the dockside sidings,probably 1972 .Most of the staging was pretty shambolic by this time,but the northern side of the dock had a red sandstone wall..I dont remember the flat in the photo,although I remember a couple of fishing boats used to moor here .I do remember one of the dale flats on the beach at Wigg Island(the other side of the Mersey).In the early 70s it was still quite complete .To digress,I remember Alf Heyman,the manager of the Bridgewater Dept of the Ship Canal,telling me that the new fleet of barges built for the Brigewater Dept replaced 300 wooden flats .Some were dumped in the arms behind Bridgewater House,Some in the sideponds of the new flight of locks and a large number in the Big Pool behind Sprinch Yard in Runcorn.

[Pluto]

It was the Bedale on the beach at Wigg Island.

 

By 1976, the basin area of the Sprinch had been filled in, though there were a couple of Simpson Davies boats sunk there.

 

In 1976 they also excavated the upper locks on the Runcorn flight to install drainage for the road bridge improvements. I didn't see any flat remains, which were more likely to be further down the old flight towards Bridgewater House.

[nebulae]

Its a long time ago(maybe 1966) but I am sure I remember abandoned flats in the side ponds of the new flight(not in the locks themselves).Not sure about the old flight.You can walk parts of it,including through some partly filled locks.Dont think there is any evidence of bits of boat showing,but I could be wrong.Do you remember the octagonal toll office at Top Locks,used by the Bridgewater Motor Boat Club for a while.Demolished circa 1970.Also a lock keepers shelter half way down the new flight.Pleasant walk down the old flight if you are visiting Runcorn,although you have to divert by road and path to re-join the flight where the two flights met below the railway bridge.Top Locks is a dismal place now,used to be a hive of activity.The Waterloo pub is now some sort of religious building,but at least it has not been knocked down.

P.S. Your photo shows just how well the new flight was built.

[Pluto]

I have photos of two of the lock keeper's shelters from 1976.

 

On the lock construction, I do have this view which shows vertical wooden columns fitted into the lock side, a similar construction being used on some Chesterfield Canal locks.

[nebulae]

Wonderful nostalgic photos.What a shame that the Ship Canal and Peel Holdings were so keen to destroy anything which they percieved had no further commercial value .In their defence,vandalism to buildings and structures as soon as they are no longer in use has always been a problem i.e. Telfords straddle warehouses at Ellesmere Port.Over the years,there have been some photos published of Runcorn Locks in their heyday,but considering their commercial importance for many years quite rare.I have personaly,never seen a phota of a Duker flat in the old flight.Also,photos of the side arms around Bridgewater House seem quite rare.Certainly,your photos of Runcorn Locks show that the vaunted restoration of the old flight of locks would not be a simple job. If I have got my bearings right,there is now a housing estate built on top of the new flight (Where one of the lock keepers huts was).I know that the Ship Canal Co.always intended to develop the land released by filling in the locks.Obviously,the bridge aproach road between Waterloo Bridge and the railway bridge puts the caebosh on reopening the locks.I know there are plans to change the bridge approaches and even to build a second Mersey Crossing,but not in my lifetime I think.

[tarboat]

 

A few flat remains in this 1958 view of the Simpson Davies yard at the Sprinch.

Edited February 17, 2014 by tarboat

[Burgiesburnin]

Some great photos and memories here, thanks.

I wonder if anyone has a photo of the livery of a St Helens based boat showing the St Helens origin?

[Mirithehamster]

Pity that navigation is not possible between Fiddlers Ferry and Widnes .Now that the entrance to both ends of the section bypassing the Upper Merseyare open,this section could fulfil its origional purpose .Pity about the lock keepers cottage at Fiddlers Ferry. A modest but atractive property ,Would probably sell in todays market for over £200,000 .I seem to remember that the Fiddlers Ferry Inn only sold beer in 1/2 pints for many years.I was told it was to stop workers at the power station from imbibing to much .No idea if this is true. The main thing preventing through navigation between Widnes and Fiddlers Ferry is some sort of water chanel associated with the power station .I remember speeking to the B.W.B. area engineer just after closure .His view was that as trade had finished there was no vertue in retaining the canal. Amenity use was not even on the agenda .I have a vague recollection of the canal dredger.It was a steam driven barge with a Prieistman type crane .Somehow the crane engine drove a propellor through gears.I might be dreaming about this.As an asside,when West Bank Dock(the other side of Runcorn Widnes Bridge) was filled in,the dredger was dragged into the lock and hacked to bits.I think much of it may be in the filled in lock still.This must have been a fasinating area in its heyday,with sailing flats trading between the St.Helens canal,the Bridgewater and the Runcorn and Latchford Canal.To digress even further,does anybody else remember the barges,cranes etc.from Liverpool Docks being cut up on the forshore at Widnes.(around 1972)The Upper Mersey Navigation Commisioners were the navigation authority for the Mersey(Ithink from somewhere above Eastam to Warrington.)They had a crane barge called the Jessie Wallwork which used to be moored under the Runcorn bridge .Appologies for this ramble!

Pluto it will be possible warrington council nd HBC are looking into it, its called linking the locks

Edited October 20, 2016 by Mirithehamster

[Pluto]

Pluto it will be possible warrington council nd HBC are looking into it, its called linking the locks

As I wrote the heritage assessment for this section, I probably know more about it than most.

[John Brightley]

I have a vague recollection of the canal dredger.It was a steam driven barge with a Prieistman type crane .Somehow the crane engine drove a propellor through gears.I might be dreaming about this.As an asside,when West Bank Dock(the other side of Runcorn Widnes Bridge) was filled in,the dredger was dragged into the lock and hacked to bits.I think much of it may be in the filled in lock still..

Coincidentally today I was looking at 'Britain's Lost Waterways 2' by Michael Ware, and noticed this photo:

The caption reads: 'If the Sankey Brook cannot claim to be the first canal, then it must have been the first artificial waterway to use a steam powered boat. Priestley in 1831 says 'an experiment of propelling vessels by steam was tried upon this canal as early as 1797, when a loaded barge was worked up and down by a steam engine on board for a distance of 20 miles; but, singular as it may appear, to this time vessels have continued to be towed upon it by manual labour'. Steam power of a different sort was applied many years later for this dredger. It was built by Priestman of Hull as a grab dredger, and was delivered to the LNWR in 1881 for the St Helens Canal. The steam plant on the crane also propelled the hull by a shaft through the centre of the slewing ring with a bevel drive to the propeller. Dredger 'Widnes' is seen here on 5 April 1959 in Winwick dry dock attached to the canal company's yard; the boat was in the process of being broken up.'

[Mirithehamster]

Coincidentally today I was looking at 'Britain's Lost Waterways 2' by Michael Ware, and noticed this photo:

IMG_0585.JPG

The caption reads: 'If the Sankey Brook cannot claim to be the first canal, then it must have been the first artificial waterway to use a steam powered boat. Priestley in 1831 says 'an experiment of propelling vessels by steam was tried upon this canal as early as 1797, when a loaded barge was worked up and down by a steam engine on board for a distance of 20 miles; but, singular as it may appear, to this time vessels have continued to be towed upon it by manual labour'. Steam power of a different sort was applied many years later for this dredger. It was built by Priestman of Hull as a grab dredger, and was delivered to the LNWR in 1881 for the St Helens Canal. The steam plant on the crane also propelled the hull by a shaft through the centre of the slewing ring with a bevel drive to the propeller. Dredger 'Widnes' is seen here on 5 April 1959 in Winwick dry dock attached to the canal company's yard; the boat was in the process of being broken up.'

you should share this photo with SCARS And Friends of The Snakey Canal Facebook i am very sure they would like to see it

[Mirithehamster]

Does anyone know when the Mersey Flats where Dumped at Widnes Wharf Spike Island since i have seen a photo on Britain From above dated 1955 and there is no sign of them then