Moorings Management Proposals

[matty40s]

New proposals hot of the press and stuck to all the boats this evening.

 

By the Summer BW will create 6 new "Neighborhoods" in the region covering the above waterways. Large chunks will be 7 day moorings and overstays will have Mooring Charges payable - £20 in advance, or £40 if invoiced afterwards. The entire stretch from the Limehouse/Ducketts to A406 North Circular is one neighborhood.

 

They will enforce by daily patrols!!!!!Any boat may not in 12 calendar months spend more than a total of 61 days in any neighborhood, unless it has a home mooring in that neighborhood.

 

 

Discuss

 

 

edited to add, They spelt it River Lee, not me.

Edited February 17, 2011 by matty40s

[cloggy]

New proposals hot of the press and stuck to all the boats this evening.

 

By the Summer BW will create 6 new "Neighborhoods" in the region covering the above waterways. Large chunks will be 7 day moorings and overstays will have Mooring Charges payable - £20 in advance, or £40 if invoiced afterwards. The entire stretch from the Limehouse/Ducketts to A406 North Circular is one neighborhood.

 

They will enforce by daily patrols!!!!!Any boat may not in 12 calendar months spend more than a total of 61 days in any neighborhood, unless it has a home mooring in that neighborhood.

 

 

Discuss

 

 

edited to add, They spelt it River Lee, not me.

Went to a talk on the Lee Monday remembered something about on any official documents it is always spelt Lee

[matty40s]

I thought it was the Lee Navigation, but the River Lea.

[Lady Muck]

New proposals hot of the press and stuck to all the boats this evening.

 

By the Summer BW will create 6 new "Neighborhoods" in the region covering the above waterways. Large chunks will be 7 day moorings and overstays will have Mooring Charges payable - £20 in advance, or £40 if invoiced afterwards. The entire stretch from the Limehouse/Ducketts to A406 North Circular is one neighborhood.

 

They will enforce by daily patrols!!!!!Any boat may not in 12 calendar months spend more than a total of 61 days in any neighborhood, unless it has a home mooring in that neighborhood.

 

 

Discuss

 

 

edited to add, They spelt it River Lee, not me.

 

They're already cracking down - someone was moaning to my partner that his new license was £400 more than it should be. Due to all the overstay charges, obviously. Boaters are only finding this out when they renew their licences so it's a shock to them. Have to say that the great majority of the liveaboards do move every two weeks, it's the holiday boats that seem to hang around for months on end.

 

But there's alot of boaters up here on River Only licenses with no home mooring, I guess that'll really put pressure on them as some stay in the 'neighbourhood' that is named, most of the time.

I wonder about the legalities of this, because as I mentioned, it's not like these boaters don't move around.

 

ETA I suppose most of us saw this coming a long way off. That's why that mooring near me, suitable for a widebeam went for £9k - several boaters I know were desperate to get it.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Lady Muck

[Lesd]

New proposals hot of the press and stuck to all the boats this evening.

 

By the Summer BW will create 6 new "Neighborhoods" in the region covering the above waterways. Large chunks will be 7 day moorings and overstays will have Mooring Charges payable - £20 in advance, or £40 if invoiced afterwards. The entire stretch from the Limehouse/Ducketts to A406 North Circular is one neighborhood.

 

They will enforce by daily patrols!!!!!Any boat may not in 12 calendar months spend more than a total of 61 days in any neighborhood, unless it has a home mooring in that neighborhood.

 

 

Discuss

 

 

edited to add, They spelt it River Lee, not me.

 

Having read all the debates on here in the past I wonder how this stacks up legally; I was under the impression the 'no return within...' clause was outside of BW's powers under the Waterways Act. Also the ability to issue a fine for overstaying on anything under a 14 day mooring ?

Is this a similar approach to what BW were trying on the K+A ?

Les

[Lady Muck]

Having read all the debates on here in the past I wonder how this stacks up legally; I was under the impression the 'no return within...' clause was outside of BW's powers under the Waterways Act. Also the ability to issue a fine for overstaying on anything under a 14 day mooring ?

Is this a similar approach to what BW were trying on the K+A ?

Les

 

If anything, Les, it sounds alot more 'full on' The Lee isn't that long a river, you can easily do the whole thing in a couple of days. What annoys me about these BW crackdowns is that we all end up suffering because of it. If I want to spend two weeks somewhere on the Lee that isn't my home mooring (and we do, sometimes) will we be able to?

[bottle]

Also the ability to issue a fine for overstaying on anything under a 14 day mooring ?

 

According to the first post it is a 'mooring charge'.

 

Do not know if that is legal though.

[carlt]

 

Do not know if that is legal though.

"Lime Green Boat"

 

BW believe they can do what they like and, until challenged, I guess they can.

 

I think the people that are discovering this policy, by finding their licence bill hiked by several hundred quid, will stand a good chance of success, if they refuse to pay, or sue for a refund, though.

[matty40s]

For LadyMuck,

 

"The abovce "Neighborhood" rules will not apply to boaters with home moorings within the plan area, provided of course that they return to their home mooring regularly. For he avoidance of doubt,boaters who rarely return to their home mooring,will be required,upon reasonable notice, to comply with the neighborhood movement rules above.

 

Oh, here's another classic....

 

"The fee of £20 represents a reasonable estimate of what it will cost to implement the new rules, including the necessary resource to monitor boats and ensure compliance. By way of comparison, the average cost of a simple BW long term mooring for the year in the plan area is in the region of £1500-£2000."

Edited February 17, 2011 by Lady Muck
oops edited instead of quoted

[Paul Evans]

According to the first post it is a 'mooring charge'.

 

Do not know if that is legal though.

 

BW claims that, under Section 43 Transport Act 1962, they have to the power to "demand, take and recover or waive such charges for their services and facilities, and to make the use of those services and facilities subject to such terms and conditions, as they think fit".

 

If a boater thinks that BW is wrong that boater, when charged a fee for overstaying on a mooring, has a choice - pay up or challenge BW's right to charge in Court. In my view a legal challenge would fail but, unless one is made, we will never know for certain.

 

.

[Lady Muck]

"Lime Green Boat"

 

BW believe they can do what they like and, until challenged, I guess they can.

 

I think the people that are discovering this policy, by finding their licence bill hiked by several hundred quid, will stand a good chance of success, if they refuse to pay, or sue for a refund, though.

 

Well it could go two ways - either boaters could challenge it, or there'll a be glut of London based boats on Apollo Duck.

 

I guess BW's answer if anyone complains will be, ''Roydon Marina is thataway------->''

 

"The abovce "Neighborhood" rules will not apply to boaters with home moorings within the plan area, provided of course that they return to their home mooring regularly. For he avoidance of doubt,boaters who rarely return to their home mooring,will be required,upon reasonable notice, to comply with the neighborhood movement rules above.

 

Hmm - I spend about four months a year cruising, bare minimum. One month of that locally, the rest on other bits of the system. Hmm.

[Lesd]

Is this the stretch where a new marina is opening (did I read that somewhere on here ??)

[Lady Muck]

in the region of £1500-£2000."

 

ORLY - lets see, the last ones near me went for about £4k and £5k, then there was the £9k one.

 

Roydon is about what I pay - £3.5k

 

Is this the stretch where a new marina is opening (did I read that somewhere on here ??)

 

It's not - it's in Roydon, on the Stort, maybe 6 or 7 hours away from where we are in the Nam

[matty40s]

Well it could go two ways - either boaters could challenge it, or there'll a be glut of London based boats on Apollo Duck.

I guess BW's answer if anyone complains will be, ''Roydon Marina is thataway------->''

Hmm - I spend about four months a year cruising, bare minimum. One month of that locally, the rest on other bits of the system. Hmm.

 

 

Neighborhoods are

 

1 Limehouse/Ducketts to A406 (7 day mooring Bow Lock to A12)(7 day mooring Lea Bridge to A406)

2 A406 to M25 (7 day mooring Enfield lock to cheshunt lock)

3 M25 to Fielde's Wier

4 Fieldes Wier to Hertford (7 day mooring Dobbs Wier to Stanstead Lock)(Hardmead Lock to Ware Lock)(Hertford Lock to end navigation)

5 Fieldes Wier to A1184 Cambridge Road (Premier Inn)

6 A1184 end of Navigation (River Stort completely 7 day mooring)

[Lady Muck]

Neighborhoods are

 

1 Limehouse/Ducketts to A406 (7 day mooring Bow Lock to A12)(7 day mooring Lea Bridge to A406)

2 A406 to M25 (7 day mooring Enfield lock to cheshunt lock)

3 M25 to Fielde's Wier

4 Fieldes Wier to Hertford (7 day mooring Dobbs Wier to Stanstead Lock)(Hardmead Lock to Ware Lock)(Hertford Lock to end navigation)

5 Fieldes Wier to A1184 Cambridge Road (Premier Inn)

 

Bloody hell! That's pretty harsh. When you bear in mind that many boaters don't moor in some of these areas as much as they used to (sanitary stations taken out of service and boat yards are really hostile towards them), it doesn't leave much river to play with.

 

I hope we don't end up with a situation where we see dumped cassette contents and rubbish - it's getting hard enough as it is. I know a boater who was threatened for trying to chuck his rubbish in a boatyard rubbish disposal point - because there's not anywhere else to do it for miles.

 

Times they are a-changing.

[carlt]

In my view a legal challenge would fail but, unless one is made, we will never know for certain.

 

.

It would neither fail nor succeed because they would just settle, like when they tried to charge me for moorings, they settled (in my favour) before it reached court.

 

If I was the boater, charged £400 on top of my licence fee, I would simply ignore it and keep offering BW a cheque, for my licence fee, until it reached court.

[matty40s]

The licence fee is a fee to use the BW administered waterways. The moorings charges are a totally different invoice for services used and offered, they could not refuse the first because you hadn't paid the charges as the two are completely different.

Lime or aquamarine.....

 

another anomelay(sp!!to include extra a/e ) I have now spotted is that some of the 7 day zones cross Neighborhood boundaries.....

 

 

Toffee popcorn

[Lady Muck]

So, Matty, what are the zones on the Regents?

[Keeping Up]

The licence fee is a fee to use the BW administered waterways. The moorings charges are a totally different invoice for services used and offered, they could not refuse the first because you hadn't paid the charges as the two are completely different.

Lime or aquamarine.....

 

another anomelay(sp!!to include extra a/e ) I have now spotted is that some of the 7 day zones cross Neighborhood boundaries.....

 

 

Toffee popcorn

 

One way in which they achieved this with some friends of mine was, when they received the cheque in payment for the annual licence, to pay in the cheque and then take from that the amount which they claimed was already owed to BW. They then refused to issue a licence on the basis that they had not been paid enough money to cover the licence fee.

[sueb]

As the rules will vary from canal to canal how will continuous cruisers, who cruise the system, know what the rules are in each area? can see that summer cruising is going to be a nightmare.

Sue

[Lady Muck]

Another mess from BW?

 

As the rules will vary from canal to canal how will continuous cruisers, who cruise the system, know what the rules are in each area? can see that summer cruising is going to be a nightmare.

Sue

 

It's exactly the same mentality that means not one laundry room, electricity bollard or pump out machine anywhere on the system uses the same card or costs the same! I.e. a right pain!

[matty40s]

None as yet, that's next, probably Limehouse to LV inc Paddington, then LV to cowley...........

The proposals front Title states Regent's Canals (quote), however, it is only the Lee Navigation inc Ducketts which the plan covers.

 

I think this is the beginning of a really hard push to try to gain income that ain't going to come.

 

Quote"We will similarly develop "neighborhoods, time limited zones and associated rules for the Regent's Canal (! again) as a second stage to these proposals; they too will be subject to consultation in due course."

 

BTW, two meetings - Tues 1st Marchy 6.30-8.30 Stanstead Abbots village hall

Weds 2nd March same times, near to you, Leaside Canoe Centre,Springfield

 

One way in which they achieved this with some friends of mine was, when they received the cheque in payment for the annual licence, to pay in the cheque and then take from that the amount which they claimed was already owed to BW. They then refused to issue a licence on the basis that they had not been paid enough money to cover the licence fee.

 

 

Then you make your cheque payable to BW Licence Fee Account..........cross cheque, bank will acept to corect account only.

[Big John]

New proposals hot of the press and stuck to all the boats this evening.

Any chance of a scan or transcript of the whole thing?

[carlt]

One way in which they achieved this with some friends of mine was, when they received the cheque in payment for the annual licence, to pay in the cheque and then take from that the amount which they claimed was already owed to BW. They then refused to issue a licence on the basis that they had not been paid enough money to cover the licence fee.

They should have gone into a waterways office, with their moorings invoice and cheque, and got a receipt, over the counter, specifying that the amount paid was for that specific invoice number.

[matty40s]

Any chance of a scan or transcript of the whole thing?

 

I will try o get it on Flickr tommorow John, was up at 04.30 and same again tommorow.