12v or 240v wiring?

[Biggles]

I have found this photo and IMO the wiring looks very nice indeed.

 

 

I think its all 12v and it is boat related but the boat does have 240v as well so I am not entirely sure.

 

Things of note to me are the neatness of the job and the use of C rated MCB's.

 

If it is 12v is the use of C rated relevant?

 

Also where can one get the nice slotted trunking and the DIN rail and locking stops?

 

I was going to use consumer units but I like this more as it has a "business like" look about it.

 

Finally what are the other yellow and blue connectors about?

 

Biggles

[Nickhlx]

Very smart !

All the yellows look like positives and the blues, negatives .... ?

 

Nick

Edited December 30, 2010 by Nickhlx

[Biggles]

I see that. But are they simply connector blocks? or is there something else going on there?

 

Biggles

[ditchcrawler]

I have found this photo and IMO the wiring looks very nice indeed.

 

 

I think its all 12v and it is boat related but the boat does have 240v as well so I am not entirely sure.

 

Things of note to me are the neatness of the job and the use of C rated MCB's.

 

If it is 12v is the use of C rated relevant?

 

Also where can one get the nice slotted trunking and the DIN rail and locking stops?

 

I was going to use consumer units but I like this more as it has a "business like" look about it.

 

Finally what are the other yellow and blue connectors about?

 

Biggles

There are some "Klippon" bits on Ebay, terminals and ends

[Chalky]

Try Farnell http://uk.farnell.com/. They sell to the public - minimum order charge is £20. I used the same grey trunking and a couple of domestic distribution boards. The yellow and blue connectors are din rail mounted terminal blocks. They're commonly used in industrial installations. Looks like the work of a professional industrial wireman.

[Nickhlx]

Try Farnell http://uk.farnell.com/. They sell to the public - minimum order charge is £20. I used the same grey trunking and a couple of domestic distribution boards. The yellow and blue connectors are din rail mounted terminal blocks. They're commonly used in industrial installations. Looks like the work of a professional industrial wireman.

 

Or try RS ( rswww.com) they sell to the public too, but I think you have to set up an account ( easy / online) and they don't charge for p+p - I have recently ordered a few components ( £12 worth) and they came partly by DHL from Holland next morning and partly by 1st class recorded from RS the next morning, all at no extra charge - must have cost more in carriage than the items were worth !

 

Nick

Edited December 31, 2010 by Nickhlx

[steelaway]

I have found this photo and IMO the wiring looks very nice indeed.

 

 

I think its all 12v and it is boat related but the boat does have 240v as well so I am not entirely sure.

 

Things of note to me are the neatness of the job and the use of C rated MCB's.

 

If it is 12v is the use of C rated relevant?

 

Also where can one get the nice slotted trunking and the DIN rail and locking stops?

 

I was going to use consumer units but I like this more as it has a "business like" look about it.

 

Finally what are the other yellow and blue connectors about?

 

Biggles

 

 

 

It looks massively over complicated to me

How many circuits and connections do you need on a NB?

I cant understand why the centre 'Q' trips have 13 connections in and only 4/5 circuits out. Whats the pupose of all the 'X2' connections.

Niether can I see why you need the set of 'K' thing - whatever they are

It smacks of 'I did like this because I can'

 

Alex

[Ray]

Over complicated? The OP said that it was boat related but not what size boat. Its probably one of the pictures the Royal Navy is circulating regarding the sale of their spare aircraft carrier?

[Guest]

As someone else said,it is likely the work of a panel wiring person, and is neatly and logically done, typically in keeping with industrial control panels. It is not necessary to go to these lengths on a canal boat, but "their boat,their business." If they have the time, money, ability and patience then good luck to them.

[Nickhlx]

As someone else said,it is likely the work of a panel wiring person, and is neatly and logically done, typically in keeping with industrial control panels. It is not necessary to go to these lengths on a canal boat, but "their boat,their business." If they have the time, money, ability and patience then good luck to them.

 

As others have said - it's nice not to have all the lights and sockets go out when a fault occurs - by wiring each light or at least each "room" back to the electrics board, and separately fusing it, only the faulty / tripped circuit will (should) trip out - this means you have light to find your way to the electrics board, and you can instantly see where the problem is, if you didn't know in the first place. We have 8 distinct areas of lighting on the boat ( with only 5 circuits), 4 DC outlets (not enough) and 9 different mains outlets/areas, as well as nav lights, horn, and lights to see your way on / off the boat at each end....

 

I would definitely wire up in this way if it were up to me, and can only admire the workmanship...

 

Nick

[Guest]

As others have said - it's nice not to have all the lights and sockets go out when a fault occurs - by wiring each light or at least each "room" back to the electrics board, and separately fusing it, only the faulty / tripped circuit will (should) trip out - this means you have light to find your way to the electrics board, and you can instantly see where the problem is, if you didn't know in the first place. We have 8 distinct areas of lighting on the boat ( with only 5 circuits), 4 DC outlets (not enough) and 9 different mains outlets/areas, as well as nav lights, horn, and lights to see your way on / off the boat at each end....

 

I would definitely wire up in this way if it were up to me, and can only admire the workmanship...

 

Nick

You can easily achieve those requirements in a much simpler manner - I did. Ten years on, no problems.

[GUMPY]

It looks massively over complicated to me

How many circuits and connections do you need on a NB?

I cant understand why the centre 'Q' trips have 13 connections in and only 4/5 circuits out. Whats the pupose of all the 'X2' connections.

Niether can I see why you need the set of 'K' thing - whatever they are

 

Nicely done

The Q trips have the input at the bottom not the top

Those I suspect feed the the yellow row across the bottom where they split each MCB feed into multiple lines.

K3 to K10 are relays I suspect that they are used for lighting, makes the switch wiring lighter and easier.

the real thing of note is that all connections that are under a screw rather than a clamp have ferrules on them which IMO is a necessity when using multi strand wiring and almost no one does it on canal boats

 

All in all not a bad job but the main feed wires are a bit light for 12v as they look like 16mm

 

Yes I do do this sort of thing for a living it takes a certain type of anal mind to think this through...

[Guest]

Nicely done

The Q trips have the input at the bottom not the top

Those I suspect feed the the yellow row across the bottom where they split each MCB feed into multiple lines.

K3 to K10 are relays I suspect that they are used for lighting, makes the switch wiring lighter and easier.

the real thing of note is that all connections that are under a screw rather than a clamp have ferrules on them which IMO is a necessity when using multi strand wiring and almost no one does it on canal boats

 

All in all not a bad job but the main feed wires are a bit light for 12v as they look like 16mm

 

Yes I do do this sort of thing for a living it takes a certain type of anal mind to think this through...

True, hardly anyone does use them. I got bootlace ferrules from Maplin's IIRC and used them throughout. Not keen on screw connectors of any sort on a boat, but there are times when it is the only way.

[Nickhlx]

True, hardly anyone does use them. I got bootlace ferrules from Maplin's IIRC and used them throughout. Not keen on screw connectors of any sort on a boat, but there are times when it is the only way.

 

What are those smart looking "waveguides" looping between K3 to K10 - are they just the positive buses (busses?) - look like they have SMA plugs grafted on the ends !

 

Nick

[JGMarine]

this is 12v wiring on a Polish Aqualine via New Boat Co.

 

Fairly simple to work on.

 

The only problem i have come across is undersized bowthruster charging cables.(IMHO)

 

I know the bow thruster cable thing has been siad before so don't want to start another saga on it.

[Biggles]

As I said in the OP title I am impressed, even my wife was and she really didn't know what it was or did but she know it looked right.

 

I will use this as my inspiration and will post my attempts when done for critique.

 

So is the use of Type C MCB's here done for a reason?

 

Biggles

[Arnot]

I have found this photo and IMO the wiring looks very nice indeed.

 

 

I think its all 12v and it is boat related but the boat does have 240v as well so I am not entirely sure.

 

Things of note to me are the neatness of the job and the use of C rated MCB's.

 

If it is 12v is the use of C rated relevant?

 

Also where can one get the nice slotted trunking and the DIN rail and locking stops?

 

I was going to use consumer units but I like this more as it has a "business like" look about it.

 

Finally what are the other yellow and blue connectors about?

 

Biggles

It does look neat but I think it misses the point a bit. Panel wiring of this nature has it's place in industrial and marine control panels but is it really appropriate to a narrow boat? From the electricians point of veiw it's quite cathartic doing this sort of thing and there is a great deal of satisfaction in standing back once it is complete and admiring it. Wiring porn?

 

Technically, this technique is more suited to systems operating at mains voltage for power circuits and lower voltages for control and monitoring circuits. For low voltage DC distribution systems where the currents are far higher, there is more to be gained by keeping wire lengths as short as sensibly possible (allowing for future maintenance) and keeping the number of connections to a minimum. DIN rail panels do not usually have these priorities.

 

There is another reason for this sort of panel that doesn't generally apply to narrow boats either, this is that industrial scale installations almost always start up on a CAD screen (or drawing board) and are planned to the umpteenth degree before the sparky gets to spool out the first metre of wire. There are some narrow boats that are planned and executed to this degree but they are pretty rare, mainly because the extra cost of the planning doesn't really provide much benefit for the owner.

 

My thoughts are that a narrow boat should be kept a bit simpler. The environmental conditions in the typical narrow boat often do not suit this sort of thing, it is more suited to systems that are constantly used so they rarely or never get cold or damp. The images attached, although work in progress, give the sort of idea.

 

So, my advice is admire it by all means (and I do) but don't try to emulate it. If you pay someone else to do it it will cost a lot with little ultimate benefit. If you do it yourself, the added complexity is likely to reduce the efficiency and long term reliability.

 

Regards

 

Arnot

 

[Biggles]

Wiring Porn. Love it.

 

The other photos are nice too.

 

I agree that its probably OTT but combined with the other 2 photos I am begining to modify my ideas.

 

Anymore wiring porn out there?

 

Biggles

[FadeToScarlet]

It looks very complicated to me, compared to Arnot's example. Surely having something done to this level is fine if it's going to be maintained by a pro, but I'm very certainly not; if I saw that it would put me off buying the boat.

[Nickhlx]

It looks very complicated to me, compared to Arnot's example. Surely having something done to this level is fine if it's going to be maintained by a pro, but I'm very certainly not; if I saw that it would put me off buying the boat.

 

If its done to this standard, surely very little, if any, maintenance would be needed ?

 

Nick

[Arnot]

If its done to this standard, surely very little, if any, maintenance would be needed ?

 

Nick

That's the paradox!

 

The more elaborate the panel, the more connections there are to fail and thus the more maintenance is likely - but - the more logical, documented and well laid out it it the easier the maintenance is.

 

The optimum is somewhere on a scale between complex and simple depending on the application.

 

Unfortunately, unless you are in mass production you never get to find out just where the optimum was until it's too late

 

Arnot