My experience at the brokerage

[Durhamdales]

On Saturday we made a 2 hour trip to a major brokerage outfit (maybe the biggest) to view a boat. I had phoned during the week and was told that they weren't that familiar with it but it was definitely available to view. On arrival my details were taken and I was simply handed the keys - this was fine by me as I have had several boats before and welcomed the chance to have a nose about on my own. I was surprised that there was no attempt to find out what I was actually interested in, a chance perhaps to 'up sell' me to another boat - but basically the keys were just fine.

There were lots of notices around asking viewers not to start engines - fair enough - a trip back to the office and the whole experience started to turn sour. 'Are you actually keen on making an offer before we start the engine?' OK, you will have to wait until we have someone available. 'How long?' - 'Could be half and hour could be two hours!' The whole tone was just - can't be a***ed - maybe because the boat was in the £20Ks and not £70Ks - but £20K is still a helluva lot of money to most folk.

Eventually a really surly guy came and started the engine and without making any other comment waited a while and wandered off - no sales patter at all. When I went to return the keys, I asked whether it would be better to arrange a test run in the week when it was quieter. I was told that this could only be arranged once an offer had been made and accepted!! When I questioned this, I was told that it was to stop them going out on endless pleasure trips - I can understand the principle, but the tone was all wrong.

As I drove away I thought of my customer experience and reflected that most owners when they come to sell their boat (is it still 6% + VAT) - that they wll have no idea of how potential buyers are treated - my advice would be to go in as a buyer before committing and check just how YOUR buyer might be treated - it could be very enlightening! Is this typical of most establishments?

[jelunga]

Mmmm, bet this was a certain Marina at a place with a similar name to a carpet near Daventry. If so, I had almost the same experience. It did not make me want to buy from them.

 

However, totally the opposite experience at Trinity Marina, on the Ashby at Hinkley. Really helpful chap, couldn't do enough and knew his boats far above the level you would expect. I know where I will go to buy a boat!!!!

 

 

 

On Saturday we made a 2 hour trip to a major brokerage outfit (maybe the biggest) to view a boat. I had phoned during the week and was told that they weren't that familiar with it but it was definitely available to view. On arrival my details were taken and I was simply handed the keys - this was fine by me as I have had several boats before and welcomed the chance to have a nose about on my own. I was surprised that there was no attempt to find out what I was actually interested in, a chance perhaps to 'up sell' me to another boat - but basically the keys were just fine.

There were lots of notices around asking viewers not to start engines - fair enough - a trip back to the office and the whole experience started to turn sour. 'Are you actually keen on making an offer before we start the engine?' OK, you will have to wait until we have someone available. 'How long?' - 'Could be half and hour could be two hours!' The whole tone was just - can't be a***ed - maybe because the boat was in the £20Ks and not £70Ks - but £20K is still a helluva lot of money to most folk.

Eventually a really surly guy came and started the engine and without making any other comment waited a while and wandered off - no sales patter at all. When I went to return the keys, I asked whether it would be better to arrange a test run in the week when it was quieter. I was told that this could only be arranged once an offer had been made and accepted!! When I questioned this, I was told that it was to stop them going out on endless pleasure trips - I can understand the principle, but the tone was all wrong.

As I drove away I thought of my customer experience and reflected that most owners when they come to sell their boat (is it still 6% + VAT) - that they wll have no idea of how potential buyers are treated - my advice would be to go in as a buyer before committing and check just how YOUR buyer might be treated - it could be very enlightening! Is this typical of most establishments?

[Mac of Cygnet]

I bought Cygnet from Calcutt in February 2 years back. After expressing an interest, I went back a week later. Not only had they made sure the batteries were charged up and the seacock open (It had lain unsold since the previous August), but had actually lit the stove to provide a welcome. I was given the keys and lent a centre rope to work up the locks single-handed, and told to take it as far as I liked. I had a great afternoon, and made an offer on the spot, which after a little negotiation was accepted. Extra work ordered and done promptly. All this for a boat costing less than £20K. And yet I had previously heard the company slated by more than one person.

 

People's perceptions of a company can be very different according to circumstances.

 

Mac

[Ex- Member]

I bought Cygnet from Calcutt in February 2 years back. After expressing an interest, I went back a week later. Not only had they made sure the batteries were charged up and the seacock open (It had lain unsold since the previous August), but had actually lit the stove to provide a welcome. I was given the keys and lent a centre rope to work up the locks single-handed, and told to take it as far as I liked. I had a great afternoon, and made an offer on the spot, which after a little negotiation was accepted. Extra work ordered and done promptly. All this for a boat costing less than £20K. And yet I had previously heard the company slated by more than one person.

 

People's perceptions of a company can be very different according to circumstances.

 

Mac

 

True you can turn up when the Saturday lad or lassie is left in charge and don't know anything or give a toss anyway Whenever dealing with brokerage; estate agents; boatbuilders or anywhere your proposing to spend a lot of money, ask to speak to the top person available and insist on dealing with them, after all you're parting with good money, so deal with the organ grinder not the monkey.

[NiceNarrowboat]

I had a similar experience with a well-known marina - the snobbery was appalling. It was only when it came down to "and how will one be paying?" the 'cash' answer got a change in approach. I guess the problem is that you know when you see the boat you want so they know they don't have to bother 'selling'. After all, you're going to buy it anyway.

Edited April 14, 2008 by NiceNarrowboat

[Durhamdales]

I had a similar experience with a well-known marina - the snobbery was appalling. It was only when it came down to "and how will one be paying?" the 'cash' answer got a change in approach. I guess the problem is that you know when you see the boat you want so they know they don't have to bother 'selling'. After all, you're going to buy it anyway.

 

If this was the saturday boy I would have understood it - but this appeared to be a top down attiude. If I was a first time buyer, faced with a boat with lots of complcated kit on board, it would have been very confusing. I have had some experience of the customer service at Calcutt and would recommend them to anyone. With the boat market apparently quite flat, it is (hopefully) the companies that will go the extra mile that will succeed.

[RichardH]

There was a great thread on this subject started by Blue String Pud a while back - a real horror story.

 

Is it me or have prices at the brokers started to tumble - many of the boats in this months WW are shown as 'reduced'

[bargeeboy]

It is more because they were overpriced to start with.

 

I get people asking me what an acceptable price would be to their boat on Brokerage.

 

I give a realistic figure that will result in a sale in a short while (less then 2 months normally)

 

They then tell me that *** or *** have said its worth x much more.

 

Off they go and 3 months later the boat is still for sale

 

I have had overpriced boats (by owners instructions) that left us after the contracted 3 months and are still today in brokers yards unsold. Three actually left us before the Winters stoppages with the promise to make the owners expected price and guess what THEY ARE STILL FOR SALE.

[StoneHenge]

We got out boat from trinity. They can be really helpful, but they try and get top whack prices so it's wroth trying to talk downt he price.

 

I found the experience good though. We got a show around first time, handed the keys second time, and by the time we had put in offers etc, they got the owners to come round and do a detailed show around of all the kit etc, so you had the benefit of the sales staff and the owners themselves as well.

 

Sorry you had a bad experience, seems some people just are not that interested in actually selling boats.

[blackelle123]

WE actually bought our boat from the one that sounds similar to said carpet - I will never ever ever go there again!!!!. We are first time buyers and we thought we had done our homework, but we could have done with some extra advise and got 'didally squot' (old family expression). The first time we took the boat out was when we were the owners, no help or advice with regard to anything. 10 minutes away, the heating failed (november conditions), the answer was, "Well, it worked when you left the marina". That had our money, we were history.

When hubs was trying to get the diesel heating/cooker to work he found that the filter to the fuel pump was empty - it didn't even have any paper filter in it. This was a system that had just been through a thorough boat survey and had passed its safety cert!!!!!!!

Overall, we are generally very happy with our boat, shes good and strong and sound, but we have had to buy a new bath (bath mat covered up a fault), new heating system and new cooker. But if we ever buy again, we know what to look for and will probably try and deal with the seller direct.

[Lady Muck]

It is more because they were overpriced to start with.

 

I get people asking me what an acceptable price would be to their boat on Brokerage.

 

I give a realistic figure that will result in a sale in a short while (less then 2 months normally)

 

They then tell me that *** or *** have said its worth x much more.

 

Off they go and 3 months later the boat is still for sale

 

I have had overpriced boats (by owners instructions) that left us after the contracted 3 months and are still today in brokers yards unsold. Three actually left us before the Winters stoppages with the promise to make the owners expected price and guess what THEY ARE STILL FOR SALE.

 

Agreed - our boat (a newish, well finished owner fit out, but stll an owner fit out IYSWIM), started out on Apollo Duck for £68k - it then went on the boatshop website for £46k and the surveyor valued it at £43k

 

One of our mates delivers boats for one of the big marinas, his opinion of their prices? 'A fantasy'

 

We had to get a survey and a valuation - the marine mortgage peeps insisted on it, but I have to say, they really do ensure that you don't get ripped off, becuase it's in their interests that you don't.

Edited April 14, 2008 by Lady Muck

[LEO]

Hi,

 

I have sold 2 boats though a boat shop at MK and got excellent service. The boats came under offer very quickly, (infact to the first people who viewed them), the applicants were very carefully screened and the surveys and sales went through quickly. The cash went straight into my bank account from the vendor.

The broker actually did what they were contracted to do - act in the vendors best interest! - something very few brokers or estate agents do.

 

The boats are normally sold from moorings and the vendor may or may not show potential customers round, which has it's advantages.

 

All for a flat fee (£500) - I have no connection with the Brokers other than being a satisfied customer.

 

When I purchased my current boat my cash offer did not proceed quickly - the brokers also had an offer from an owner whose boat they were trying to sell, commision to them under those circumstances £6000, commission if the boat was sold to me - £3250 mmmmmmmmmmmmm they gave him a long while to try and sell his boat.

 

Albi

[Lady Muck]

I had mixed feelings about the boat shop that we bought through. They put lots of pressure on us to not have a survey, said it wasn't worth it for such new boat, I felt a bit bullied TBH, I was threatened that they'd find another buyer who didn'twant a survey and then, 'you'll never find a surveyor at this time of year,believe me' (took us two weeks!).

 

We didn't listen to them and from the survey, we discovered galvanic corroson that needed attention, plus all the epoxy blacking that was supposed to last another four years, simply dropped off from the pressure wash! So we are bloody well pleased that we ignored them and got her out to have a look!

 

Then at the very last minute, on the day we were suppposed to get the money from the mortgage brokers, the day the sale went through, the mortgage brokers discovered that the RCD was only for the hull! We had to wait another month for the RCD to be written - we were very lucky that the guy who fitted the boat out was meticulous and careful and had fitted out absolutely by the book, saving all the manuals and receipts for every single thing he'd fitted and following all the guidelines.

 

In a nutshell, don't trust anyone else when you buy a boat - if yu don't know much about boats, read, read, read and read some more - theres great advice here. Make sure you've got all the right paperwork, too.

 

The boat is great now, by the way, no problems since we bought her!

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Interesting note about having a survey - both those boats I sold had surveys, both were for cash to first time buyers and both I and the boat shop insisted and on one boat a substantial price reduction was negotiated (I was selling this on behalf of a friend).

 

Presumably if marine finance is involved a survey is a requirement.

 

Keeping up pressure on prospective purchasers is reasonable, as that's what the vendor pays the agent to do (ie. introduce an able, willing purchaser and complete the sale as soon as possible) and lots of people say 'yes' but then 'no' in the cold light of day and all to often the vendor has 'missed' the market.

 

I have spent nearly 40 years being amazed at people's reluctance to spend money on house surveys (few realise that offers should be made 'subject to survey'), that if ever I sell a house or a boat I now insist that a proper survey is carried out before a sale. I retired as an FRICS and maybe I have vested interest in keeping my fellow surveyors employed, but such an action avoids lots of problems.

 

Now don't mention HIPS to me.

 

Albi.

[PaulG]

On Saturday we made a 2 hour trip to a major brokerage outfit (maybe the biggest) to view a boat. I had phoned during the week and was told that they weren't that familiar with it but it was definitely available to view. On arrival my details were taken and I was simply handed the keys - this was fine by me as I have had several boats before and welcomed the chance to have a nose about on my own. I was surprised that there was no attempt to find out what I was actually interested in, a chance perhaps to 'up sell' me to another boat - but basically the keys were just fine.

There were lots of notices around asking viewers not to start engines - fair enough - a trip back to the office and the whole experience started to turn sour. 'Are you actually keen on making an offer before we start the engine?' OK, you will have to wait until we have someone available. 'How long?' - 'Could be half and hour could be two hours!' The whole tone was just - can't be a***ed - maybe because the boat was in the £20Ks and not £70Ks - but £20K is still a helluva lot of money to most folk.

Eventually a really surly guy came and started the engine and without making any other comment waited a while and wandered off - no sales patter at all. When I went to return the keys, I asked whether it would be better to arrange a test run in the week when it was quieter. I was told that this could only be arranged once an offer had been made and accepted!! When I questioned this, I was told that it was to stop them going out on endless pleasure trips - I can understand the principle, but the tone was all wrong.

As I drove away I thought of my customer experience and reflected that most owners when they come to sell their boat (is it still 6% + VAT) - that they wll have no idea of how potential buyers are treated - my advice would be to go in as a buyer before committing and check just how YOUR buyer might be treated - it could be very enlightening! Is this typical of most establishments?

 

We had a similar experience when we bought our boat. On the basis that we could give them a name, address, and telephone number, they gave us the keys to several boats that we were interested in viewing, and pointed us in the direction of their "sales pontoons". They didn't need to put up notices asking viewers not to start engines - on all the boats that we looked at, the batteries were as flat as a witches' t*t.

 

I couldn't understand why "our" boat had been up for sale for so long, as on paper it looked like a good deal. But when we went on board, some of the reasons became apparent straight away. There were so many spiders' webs inside that it was an "Indiana Jones" experience to pass from one end to the other. The galley worktops were covered in a thick layer of grime and dead insects, and the bath contained an inch of stagnant water. All in all, enough general "grot" to send most females running for cover!

 

The service batteries were just as flat as the engine start one, so you had no way of knowing whether any of the electrical systems actually worked or not. All in all, it was a dirty, lifeless, non-functional thing with a £45K price tag.

 

I made an offer for the boat which was substantially less than the asking price, and, with a little haggling, got a slightly higher offer accepted. I came to the conclusion that the main negotiating skill required in that brokerage was being able to pursuade an owner to accept a lower offer, rather than pursuading a prospective buyer to pay the asking price. In other words, as a buyer, the broker was actually fighting my corner against the seller - the very person who was paying his fee!

 

I mentioned the condition of the interior to the person who was manning the desk at the brokerage, and they said that "it was the owner's responsibility to look after the interior". They only hosed down the outside from time to time. Obviously occasional battery charging was out of the question.

 

"for", "rope", "money", "old" - arrange in the order of your choice.

 

Before placing a boat for sale with any brokerage, I'd agree 100% with you. Visit them posing as a buyer first, just to get a feel for the service that they really provide to sellers.

[Chris-B]

After reading Richardf's comments about a certain brokerage

I had to post this photo ...It could quite possibly belong to the salesman he saw

 

 

Chris

[PaulG]

After reading Richardf's comments about a certain brokerage

I had to post this photo ...It could quite possibly belong to the salesman he saw

Chris

 

That number plate is fitted as standard equipment on Crossfires

[Durhamdales]

It's crazy isn't it - a few years ago you paid your percentage to a broker primarily as you knew they would put a picture in Waterways World - and that's where the buying public would go initially.

Now all that has changed and most people (I think) would go to apolloduck or something like that. You would think they knew they would have to work a bit harder.

I have had several PMs this morning from folk who have had a really bad experience when selling from Whilton - if I was selling my boat with them I would be really concerned about their attitude.

[Tusses]

On the basis that we could give them a name, address, and telephone number, they gave us the keys to several boats that we were interested in viewing, and pointed us in the direction of their "sales pontoons".

 

At Braunston (delete if I'm not allowed to say that) I just had a look on their board - chose some boats I wanted to look at, and they gave me the keys and pointed to where I might find them !

 

one NB had a 3mm hull, so I asked if that was ok. they said thats how it was made , so it must be !

[Malarky]

Is this typical of most establishments?

 

Estate agents... seem the same; but wind you up with service when looking, but slip into incompetance if you show the money and want to buy!

What about giving the impression you just want to look around for the sake of a free outing; take a picnic and blanket for the roof, and of course, ghetto blaster; who knows they might communicate to discover what on earths going on!

[Chertsey]

This is all quite a long time ago now but I would like to put on record the fantastic treatment we got when we bought our first boat from Penton Hook. We were on our way back from Walton or somewhere and nearly didn't go in, it looked so flash and out of our range... but we did.

 

They had cruisers there that were half a million pounds; the boat we were looking at, the second cheapest there, was a hundredth of that. A wonderful salesman (Darren Shead, take a bow wherever you are now) took us out straight away, for as long as we wanted; he was infinitely patient. He talked us through the whole process of buying a boat, getting a survey etc. He talked me through things on the phone after we'd gone away to think about it. We went back a week later and he took us out AGAIN. We had a survey and got twenty percent knocked off the asking price, and bought the boat.

 

They then told us that as the mooring (£90/foot) was paid up for the next six weeks, why didn't we keep it there and enjoy it on the Thames for a while before going off to our new mooring. We didn't have a Thames map, so they lent (not sold!) us one.

 

That's what I call service for a boat at any price - but a £4,000 one? Fantastic. And all with great enthusiams, real commitment, friendliness and patience.

 

As for the other place, it's great for doing research as a potential buyer ...

[Chickadee]

We went to four different brokers around Daventry before choosing our boat and the service was all pretty similar.

Disinterested seems to be the way. We did have a nice chat with the guy at Braunston despite not wanting any of the boats we looked at. He gave us some great advice. One marina told us we had no chance of finding the boat we wanted (40ft for under £30k) but we found plenty at other marinas.

 

Where we eventually got our boat from although a bit non plus before have given us perfect after sales care. We spent a good four days in the marina and they were really helpful. Our surveyor was really impressive and gave us lots of extra info about the boat that he didnt have to. He made sure everything was spot on before he would issue a certificate.

I dont think we would use them to sell but thats because we would like to keep the 6% for ourselves.

[BlueStringPudding]

As mentioned above, I had one very bad experience at a brokerage: Harral to be precise. The account of which is somewhere in the depths of this forum. Harral told us, as someone above was told, that we'd never get a boat in our price range. Well, we ended up with a sturdy 65ft-er, less than ten years old and well within our price range. So yah-boo-sucks-to-you Harral.

 

But the BWML brokerage at Sawley was great. Again it was just a hand the keys over sort of service - which suited us fine. And it gave us the opportunity to compare some cheap old wrecks with some posh boats well out of our price range - which was very helpful in teaching us exactly what you get for your money (or don't get, as the case may be).

By our second visit they remembered us and didn't even bother asking us to fill in a card to sign out the keys, they just handed them over for whichever boats we were interested in!

 

They weren't in any hurry to take us out for a test drive (2 hour wait) but when they did they gave us lots of time, talked us through the handling of it and got Kev used to the tiller and even talked him through turning it a full 180 degrees on the River Trent for the return jorney. Very nice feller.

 

Needless to say, we bought a boat from Sawley. We didn't buy one from Harral.

Edited April 14, 2008 by BlueStringPudding

[larkshall]

seems to me there could be some dosh to be made by acting for purchasers. Many will have little experience of buying.

 

When I buy I always like a second pair of eyes to be there, as they will see things i miss, and stop the 'falling in love must have' syndrome. Then get in a surveyor.

 

Wonder if a good surveyor could do this?, Then get a neutral surveyor to confirm choice. and do survey...just an idea from a suspicious old scoundrel

[BlueStringPudding]

When I buy I always like a second pair of eyes to be there, as they will see things i miss, and stop the 'falling in love must have' syndrome. Then get in a surveyor.

 

We had the benefit of a certain lovely feller from a certain lovely froum who was our third pair of eyes.