Telephone Call with CRT Enforcement

[gazza]

Sorry, is this guy doing those 3 things? If someone is moored in a lock or run an engine all night, I'm sure we would deal with it directly without winging to CRT to make up more rules. This guy might be doing anything he likes but if he's not affecting our enjoyment of the system, what's the problem? I sometimes wish people would spend more time cruising and enjoying what we've got rather than carry out a forum witch hunt.

 

 

Thats a very Naive outlook though,

 

If we all took that aproach nobody would pay a bean for the upkeep of the network. the roads or their local enviroment via council tax etc.

 

Boats, Cars, Kids - infact life in general costs. Its an unavoidable fact. Not having the will or means to pay or stick to the rules doesnt exclude you from your obligation to pay or abide by any rules set out by the navigatuion authority, DVLA, local council delete as appropriate

Edited April 14, 2015 by gazza

[bassplayer]

Thats a very Naive outlook though,

 

If we all took that aproach nobody would pay a bean for the upkeep of the network. the roads or their local enviroent via council tax etc.

 

Boats, Cars, Kids - infact life in general costs. Its an unavoidable fact. Not having the will or means to pay or stick to the rules doesnt exclude you from your obligation to pay or abide by any rules set out by the navigatuion authority, DVLA, local council delete as appropriate

My gripe is with the new T&C's. I don't have a problem with rules provided they align with common sense. There will always be some P takers, it's a fact of life. We've probably all taken the P sometime in our life. In the end, it's our conscience and disapproving looks from others we have to deal with. It's all part of this country becoming a police state. Is it only me who has seen the creep in the last 30 years?

 

I think a lot of these debates are fuelled by the misconception that the entire system will become a ghetto. If that was the case it would have happened years ago. I'm sure most people (including immigrants) would prefer bricks and mortar over a boat anytime.

[Midnight]

Yes but is he actually causing any of us a problem? The new T&C's are however causing stress to us. Isn't it just possible that CRT are using cases like this to justify a hidden agenda? Rid the system of CM'ers, them rid the system of CC'ers, then....??

 

...and anyway, what's wrong with some people preferring to live in a boat. It's been going on for decades. The best solution was to give everyone a bit of slack and leave things alone. Freedom isn't about creating more rules....

 

I think they're simply just trying to get rid of the pi**-takers

[cotswoldsman]

There's obviously a problem with p***-takers like this guy. The new T&C's are an attempt to prevent this kind of thing. I hear the arguments against but I don't hear anyone come up with a better solution.

 

I'm no fan of CaRT but what else can they do in the face of a changing world where people see a boat as a cheap alternative to a house?

In all fairness the 1995 Act deals with this but it does require people to get out of the office and not leave it for 5 months before taking action

If we are going to consider the possibilities, perhaps CRT may have been far too lenient so far.

Yes see above post

[Midnight]

In all fairness the 1995 Act deals with this but it does require people to get out of the office and not leave it for 5 months before taking action

 

Yes see above post

 

 

Isn't that a case of

<quote>The best solution was to give everyone a bit of slack</quote>

 

I suggest CaRT have been very fair in this particular case.

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

Isn't that a case of

<quote>The best solution was to give everyone a bit of slack</quote>

 

I suggest CaRT have been very fair in this particular case.

I did not say they had not been fair I agree they have but a few visits would have been better to keep on top of the situation. They say they cover every part of the network every 14 days. If they have given someone permission to stay for repairs then maybe a visit 4 weeks layer yo check on progress might have been an idea and then again 4 weeks layer etc. A phone call after 5 months is IMO not the way to deal with these type of situations

[nicknorman]

A phone call after 5 months is IMO not the way to deal with these type of situations

How do you know this was first contact?

[cotswoldsman]

How do you know this was first contact?

It was not the first contact read my posts and try and keep up

[bassplayer]

Isn't that a case of

<quote>The best solution was to give everyone a bit of slack</quote>

I suggest CaRT have been very fair in this particular case.

We simply don't know the whole story. In the video it does appear that he feels he has been harassed by CRT over a period of time when he's had more pressing things to worry about. He has at least paid for a boat licence, some P takers don't! He certainly doesn't think CRT have been very fair. Only a court will decide if he's truly a P taker.

[mrsmelly]

We simply don't know the whole story. In the video it does appear that he feels he has been harassed by CRT over a period of time when he's had more pressing things to worry about. He has at least paid for a boat licence, some P takers don't! He certainly doesn't think CRT have been very fair. Only a court will decide if he's truly a P taker.

 

Hi Bassplayer

 

Now lets be realistic. Speaking as a proper ccer ( it aint hard to comply ) I think this bloke is a humungous peetaker and he and his ilk are why some and I stress some boaters are against ccers. He is not a ccer he is most definately a cmer. He reckons that so far he has needed 6 months to repair his engine well a few years ago I bought a new shell and completely fitted the whole caboodle out on my days off in less than 18 months a quite large comitment I think you will agree.

Now lets assume he works 60 hours a week which would not be unreasonable for a business owner as others on here would agree then in six months he has earnt more than enough to pay for the work to be carried out. If he does it himself he has had more than enough days off to completely rebuild half a dozen engines in that time. In the recording he is smarmy and keeps over using the word reasonable and each time ensures that I for one know full well that he is not being reasonable in fact very far from it and just as a for instance 3 bolts or whatever needing doing for the alternator then what would you do after dinner on the first day of repairs?

 

Tim

[Midnight]

......................He certainly doesn't think CRT have been very fair. Only a court will decide if he's truly a P taker.

 

He doesn't! - that's why many on here think he's taking the mick.

It doesn't need a court to decide that one, but a court may be required if he doesn't comply very soon!

[bassplayer]

Hi Bassplayer

 

Now lets be realistic. Speaking as a proper ccer ( it aint hard to comply ) I think this bloke is a humungous peetaker and he and his ilk are why some and I stress some boaters are against ccers. He is not a ccer he is most definately a cmer. He reckons that so far he has needed 6 months to repair his engine well a few years ago I bought a new shell and completely fitted the whole caboodle out on my days off in less than 18 months a quite large comitment I think you will agree.

Now lets assume he works 60 hours a week which would not be unreasonable for a business owner as others on here would agree then in six months he has earnt more than enough to pay for the work to be carried out. If he does it himself he has had more than enough days off to completely rebuild half a dozen engines in that time. In the recording he is smarmy and keeps over using the word reasonable and each time ensures that I for one know full well that he is not being reasonable in fact very far from it and just as a for instance 3 bolts or whatever needing doing for the alternator then what would you do after dinner on the first day of repairs?

 

Tim

Lots more assumptions, but who knows you might be right.

 

What's a proper CC'er anyway? I'm not sure anymore...

[mrsmelly]

Lots more assumptions, but who knows you might be right.

 

What's a proper CC'er anyway? I'm not sure anymore...

 

Yes I will agree with your second point. I for one think it needs proper clarification for the benefit of all but that would need further clearer legislation which I dont think would do any of us any good. One school of thought is that if you need to ask how far then your intention is to bend the rules and I have some simpathy with that idea but equaly just using the term " bone fide " cruising is far too open to personal interpretation.

 

Tim

[bassplayer]

One school of thought is that if you need to ask how far then your intention is to bend the rules...

 

Tim

...or maybe your intention is well placed but you ask because you are just worried CRT are going to pick on you. Don't forget they can also make assumptions about your movements based on poorly sampled data gathering.

 

Some people on this forum seem to believe you can't be a CC'er unless you have no commitments. Me, I juggle my commitments around my love for travelling around the system. I don't have a need to stay in the same place so I'd never use a home mooring even if it was given to me. I try not to break any rules but I have no idea if I'm a proper CC'er.

[cotswoldsman]

...or maybe your intention is well placed but you ask because you are just worried CRT are going to pick on you. Don't forget they can also make assumptions about your movements based on poorly sampled data gathering.

 

Some people on this forum seem to believe you can't be a CC'er unless you have no commitments. Me, I juggle my commitments around my love for travelling around the system. I don't have a need to stay in the same place so I'd never use a home mooring even if it was given to me. I try not to break any rules but I have no idea if I'm a proper CC'er.

Like you I have a lot of commitments and they seem.to grow every year and I also manage to cc well I have now done over the 20 km this year so far and 8 months to go

[gazza]

My gripe is with the new T&C's. I don't have a problem with rules provided they align with common sense. There will always be some P takers, it's a fact of life. We've probably all taken the P sometime in our life. In the end, it's our conscience and disapproving looks from others we have to deal with. It's all part of this country becoming a police state. Is it only me who has seen the creep in the last 30 years?

 

I think a lot of these debates are fuelled by the misconception that the entire system will become a ghetto. If that was the case it would have happened years ago. I'm sure most people (including immigrants) would prefer bricks and mortar over a boat anytime.

Christ, ever thought of investing in a tin foil hat.

 

Its not a misconception that the system will become a ghetto, its the fact most sane thinking people are fed up of the Piss takers, C&RT included - not before time I might add.

[bassplayer]

Christ, ever thought of investing in a tin foil hat.

Its not a misconception that the system will become a ghetto....

Ok, what evidence do we have to show that it will turn into a ghetto?

 

The figures someone posted here a while back show no increase in the number of boats on CRT waters over the last few years. Nobody has claimed they have actually had a problem finding and getting to VM's in London...yet. Who are these people who would pass on a council flat/house rather than live on a cramped boat without immediate access to water, WiFi, fuel etc?

 

If you're right, I'm selling up and buying a camper...

[mrsmelly]

Ok, what evidence do we have to show that it will turn into a ghetto?

 

The figures someone posted here a while back show no increase in the number of boats on CRT waters over the last few years. Nobody has claimed they have actually had a problem finding and getting to VM's in London...yet. Who are these people who would pass on a council flat/house rather than live on a cramped boat without immediate access to water, WiFi, fuel etc?

 

If you're right, I'm selling up and buying a camper...

 

I owned my own house outright and sold it and vastly prefer living on a boat, I have bought other houses over the last few years and always kept the boat as the wife and I vastly prefer the lifestyle to a boring house.........I am not the only one by a long way.

 

Tim

[bassplayer]

I owned my own house outright and sold it and vastly prefer living on a boat, I have bought other houses over the last few years and always kept the boat as the wife and I vastly prefer the lifestyle to a boring house.........I am not the only one by a long way.

 

Tim

Same here but I haven't got a house to fall back on (which might explain why I get a bit sensitive!). Houses are boring if you're strange like me!

[mrsmelly]

Same here but I haven't got a house to fall back on (which might explain why I get a bit sensitive!). Houses are boring if you're strange like me!

 

Same here I no longer own a house to fall back on I am lucky enough to probably be able to buy one again soon but it aint gonna happen life is too short to be mundane. Actualy if I had my way I would probably buy an old double decker bus and convert that to live on for a change but whenever I moot the suggestion swmbo will not allow it

 

Tim

[bassplayer]

Same here I no longer own a house to fall back on I am lucky enough to probably be able to buy one again soon but it aint gonna happen life is too short to be mundane. Actualy if I had my way I would probably buy an old double decker bus and convert that to live on for a change but whenever I moot the suggestion swmbo will not allow it

 

Tim

I thought about the idea of buying up an old London double decker and running a business from it. I saw one pop up on eBay a while back which was done up as a flashy bar. They're not cheap though! Hopefully we can get a few more years on the boat until things get too painful...

[gazza]

Ok, what evidence do we have to show that it will turn into a ghetto?

 

The figures someone posted here a while back show no increase in the number of boats on CRT waters over the last few years. Nobody has claimed they have actually had a problem finding and getting to VM's in London...yet. Who are these people who would pass on a council flat/house rather than live on a cramped boat without immediate access to water, WiFi, fuel etc?

 

If you're right, I'm selling up and buying a camper...

I didn't mean (or state) it is all ready a ghetto.

 

I said it is the fact people are fed up with non compliant piss takers.

 

Just for clarity 'canals are OK - they are not a ghetto - yet' OK?!

Ok, what evidence do we have to show that it will turn into a ghetto?

 

The figures someone posted here a while back show no increase in the number of boats on CRT waters over the last few years. Nobody has claimed they have actually had a problem finding and getting to VM's in London...yet. Who are these people who would pass on a council flat/house rather than live on a cramped boat without immediate access to water, WiFi, fuel etc?

 

If you're right, I'm selling up and buying a camper...

I didn't mean (or state) it is all ready a ghetto.

 

I said it is the fact people are fed up with non compliant piss takers.

 

Just for clarity 'canals are OK - they are not a ghetto - yet' OK?!

[bassplayer]

I didn't mean (or state) it is all ready a ghetto.

I said it is the fact people are fed up with non compliant piss takers.

Just for clarity 'canals are OK - they are not a ghetto - yet' OK?!

 

 

Ah, I misunderstood, sorry. "Its not a misconception that the system will become a ghetto.." = "Its not THE misconception that the system will become a ghetto...".

[gazza]

Fair point!

[Rose Narrowboats]

Ok, what evidence do we have to show that it will turn into a ghetto?

 

Have you been to London lately? Someone I know boating down there reckons there are approaching 1500 hundred boats down there now moored 5 and 6 abreast in places.

There enough anecdotal evidence to make a reasonable assumption that around 500 of these are "second boats" bought by some of the other CMers down there and rented out, almost certainly without correct procedures, insurance or licencing.

 

Closer to home MIlton Keynes is now virtually a linear floating housing estate populated by boats who aren't in my estimation designed and maintained in a condition conducive to safe, effective or enjoyable cruising.

 

Okay, so this is only one of a few boats taking the mick around Nuneaton, but there were only a few boats in Oxford in the late 80's and look at the state that had got into by the mid 90s. When that was dredged in 95/96 the moorers were making death threats against the dredging gang because they didn't want it dredging and didn't want to move in case one of their "mates" nicked their spot afterwards. Personally I think dumping the dredgings on the towingpath might have been the best bet......

 

I have nothing against people who love their boats and want to live on one (been there, done that and hope to again) as many of my friends do, but I don't understand why we should have to pander to people for whom the fact that their home is afloat and has to move is an inconvenience. Surely anyone actually boating along the Ashby must have noticed how much more pleasant it has been for the last couple years compared to how that had got before a change in enforcement boundaries?