Ham Baker paddle gear

[Ray T]

I tried to find the previous thread without any luck, any way:

 

 

 

Taken today on a pre open day at Hatton locks. Open day(s) this week end.

 

For Alan Fincher, to confirm what he has stated previously, the writing on the casing says Ham Baker, not Ham & Baker

 

The writing is:

 

Ham Baker & Co Ltd

Westminster SW

 

In the depths of one of the Hatton Flight:

 

[/u

 

This is what your lock gate sits on:

 

]

Edited February 13, 2015 by Ray T

[OldGoat]

I tried to find the previous thread without any luck, any way:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was it this one - "Hatton paddles 11/7/2012" ?

Sorry don't know how to find the item number

[Laurence Hogg]

For those unaware HAMBAKER are still in business and still producing the same gear, The paddle gear on Hatton and similar is gravity closing and doesn't need winding down (indeed to do so can be dangerous). See their products:

http://www.hambaker.co.uk/index.html

[David Schweizer]

For those unaware HAMBAKER are still in business and still producing the same gear, The paddle gear on Hatton and similar is gravity closing and doesn't need winding down (indeed to do so can be dangerous). See their products:

http://www.hambaker.co.uk/index.html

 

Yes, and I always let them wind down by themselves. However, there is a small problem, if the rubber impact bush at the bottom has perished or is missing they can give out a very solid thud when the paddle is closed. Whether this causes any damage i do not know but as all the inspection plates seem to be missing, it is possible to see whether the bush is still there. If it is missing I usually brake the spindle just before the bottom with a gloved hand, it stops quite easily.

[RLWP]

 

Yes, and I always let them wind down by themselves. However, there is a small problem, if the rubber impact bush at the bottom has perished or is missing they can give out a very solid thud when the paddle is closed. Whether this causes any damage i do not know but as all the inspection plates seem to be missing, it is possible to see whether the bush is still there. If it is missing I usually brake the spindle just before the bottom with a gloved hand, it stops quite easily.

 

The other problem, particularly in cold weather, is that they fail to wind themselves down completely

 

Richard

[FadeToScarlet]

Yes, and I always let them wind down by themselves. However, there is a small problem, if the rubber impact bush at the bottom has perished or is missing they can give out a very solid thud when the paddle is closed. Whether this causes any damage i do not know but as all the inspection plates seem to be missing, it is possible to see whether the bush is still there. If it is missing I usually brake the spindle just before the bottom with a gloved hand, it stops quite easily.

I usually use the angled part of a steel windlass on the large circular part on the spindle if there's no bush, and pulling down with both hands, you can brake it to a sensible stop by varying the pressure

The other problem, particularly in cold weather, is that they fail to wind themselves down completely

 

Richard

Too much oil?

 

I kept daydreaming, last time we went there last year, about CRT restoring a short section of 1930s enhanced cut to "as built" condition, both depth but also cutting back overhanging vegetation to get the "look" right. One of the locks with the Ham Baker gear, also restored to "as built" condition, would be great too.

[Derek R.]

Nice to see the 'innards'. I have often wondered what the broken off lug was for, does anyone know it's original purpose? Considering the fact that some do drop quite quickly, might there have been an external brake pivoting at the lug? I've wound down a few, and used my hand as a clutch on some, though that can hurt if they want to drop fast.

[OldGoat]

Nice to see the 'innards'. I have often wondered what the broken off lug was for, does anyone know it's original purpose? Considering the fact that some do drop quite quickly, might there have been an external brake pivoting at the lug? I've wound down a few, and used my hand as a clutch on some, though that can hurt if they want to drop fast.

 

There use to be an U-shaped block attached with a chain to that lug, so that you could lock the gear in an up position while the lock was filling.

BW removed them and cut the top of the lug off - presumably to stop anyone 'repairing' the fixture.

 

I don't know if that was because of Elfin safety or mebe 'cos some folks (repeatedly) left the sluices up when going downhill (- Oh, yes it does happen) thus emptying the pound or possibly the flight.

 

I can remember the blocks in place - so it must be post privatization (haha).

 

I was told - quite strongly - by BW staff that the paddles should be (must be) wound down - Yeah...

[David Schweizer]

 

There use to be an U-shaped block attached with a chain to that lug, so that you could lock the gear in an up position while the lock was filling.

BW removed them and cut the top of the lug off - presumably to stop anyone 'repairing' the fixture.

 

I don't know if that was because of Elfin safety or mebe 'cos some folks (repeatedly) left the sluices up when going downhill (- Oh, yes it does happen) thus emptying the pound or possibly the flight.

 

I can remember the blocks in place - so it must be post privatization (haha).

 

I was told - quite strongly - by BW staff that the paddles should be (must be) wound down - Yeah...

 

They were missing fifteen (and possibly more) years ago, In fact I cannot remember them even back in the 1960's, so they were perhaps removed post Nationalization!

Edited February 15, 2015 by David Schweizer

[RLWP]

Meanwhile the u blocks and chains are still present

 

Richard

[pearley]

The cutaway drawing in Laurence's thread shows something secured to that block with a but and bolt arrangement. Possibly a cutout that swivelled over to lock the gear?

 

Edited to add that I should have read the link Laurence attached. It states that a ratchet pawl is mounted on that bit just behind the windlass slindle. When I've looked at them I got the impression that the castings had broken there rather than being cut off.

Edited February 15, 2015 by pearley

[alan_fincher]

The cutaway drawing in Laurence's thread shows something secured to that block with a but and bolt arrangement. Possibly a cutout that swivelled over to lock the gear?

 

Edited to add that I should have read the link Laurence attached. It states that a ratchet pawl is mounted on that bit just behind the windlass slindle. When I've looked at them I got the impression that the castings had broken there rather than being cut off.

 

This has been discussed in a previous thread, I know.

 

Some of the gear at Calcutt still carries parts that I cannot recall as still present at any other locations.

 

(Or at least it did the last time I was there, which probably isn't that recently now.).

 

[Derek R.]

The cutaway drawing in Laurence's thread shows something secured to that block with a but and bolt arrangement. Possibly a cutout that swivelled over to lock the gear?

 

Edited to add that I should have read the link Laurence attached. It states that a ratchet pawl is mounted on that bit just behind the windlass slindle. When I've looked at them I got the impression that the castings had broken there rather than being cut off.

 

The idea that there might have been a pivoting device with 'U' shaped piece locking over the larger of the two square bosses seems most likely, and I can imagine the castings getting stressed to breaking point - hence the replacement with a 'U' shape on a chain. Last time I went that way all had a chain and locking device. No other way they would stay up without hanging on to the windlass.

 

Ah! A ratchet! Don't recall seeing that before. Eyes wide shut.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Derek R.

[X Alan W]

 

They were missing fifteen (and possibly more) years ago, In fact I cannot remember them even back in the 1960's, so they were perhaps removed post Nationalization!

Hatton still had some in the early /mid 60's it seemed that if the crowfoot locking bit wore to the point of may/not hold they removed them, also if the chain broke same thing, I remember a BW guy cutting off the lug with a hacksaw on one of the flight

[Laurence Hogg]

Hatton still had some in the early /mid 60's it seemed that if the crowfoot locking bit wore to the point of may/not hold they removed them, also if the chain broke same thing, I remember a BW guy cutting off the lug with a hacksaw on one of the flight

On the drawing it was part 34 which pivoted and locked the spindle, many got broken and very few were left by the 1970's, I doubt any survive today.

[David Schweizer]

 

They were missing fifteen (and possibly more) years ago, In fact I cannot remember them even back in the 1960's, so they were perhaps removed post Nationalization!

 

 

Hatton still had some in the early /mid 60's it seemed that if the crowfoot locking bit wore to the point of may/not hold they removed them, also if the chain broke same thing, I remember a BW guy cutting off the lug with a hacksaw on one of the flight

 

The first time I went up Hatton was 1967, so my recollection is probioby correct.

[Derek R.]

Where's this drawing from Laurence's attached link? The only things I see are the companies modern day products.

 

The claws were there in 1988. (Hanging on chains).

Edited February 16, 2015 by Derek R.

[alan_fincher]

The claws were there in 1988. (Hanging on chains).

 

I'm pretty confident that in the early 1970s, the only option on any was the "claw on chain".

 

What I do think was different, is that a great deal of them back then didn't have the indicator rod added.

 

I would suggest that in the days when traffic was all working boats, and few or no leisure craft the indicator rods would have served little purpose, because paddles were generally left up on the exit gates, so the next crew along would assume them to be up, and dropping them before the lock was worked would normally have been required every time.

 

These pictures, I think 1973, show the claws (just).

 

My first wife Pam on the paddle......

 

 

The boat was my first one, and allegedly 1898 build, though that may not be accurate

 

[Laurence Hogg]

Where's this drawing from Laurence's attached link? The only things I see are the companies modern day products.

 

The claws were there in 1988. (Hanging on chains).

 

[Derek R.]

Thank you Laurence!

[rrt2]

Looking at the drawing then I would think that the original way to hold the paddles up was a basic rachet and pawl mechanism.

Part number 33b being the pawl ( still in place on the paddle gear).

Part number 33a the ratchet arm

Part number 34 the ratchet pivot bolt

not numbered on the drawing but the through bolt assemble just beloe the notation 3b would have been bolted to the now broken part.

This is the ratchet arm stop as well.

Part numbers 30 and 31 were these guide plates with the ratchet arm sitting between them

Edited February 17, 2015 by barry adams

[DHutch]

Cant think what else the ratchet is for.

 

 

Daniel

[Laurence Hogg]

Looking at the drawing then I would think that the original way to hold the paddles up was a basic rachet and pawl mechanism.

Part number 33b being the pawl ( still in place on the paddle gear).

Part number 33a the ratchet arm

Part number 34 the ratchet pivot bolt

not numbered on the drawing but the through bolt assemble just beloe the notation 3b would have been bolted to the now broken part.

This is the ratchet arm stop as well.

Part numbers 30 and 31 were these guide plates with the ratchet arm sitting between them

 

No, it was a part that pivoted onto the square section effectively locking it, you then pulled it off and let the paddle fall, there were a few in place in the 1970's but the inherent weakness was the pivot which is often seen today as a fractured casting part.

[john6767]

 

No, it was a part that pivoted onto the square section effectively locking it, you then pulled it off and let the paddle fall, there were a few in place in the 1970's but the inherent weakness was the pivot which is often seen today as a fractured casting part.

I thought they had been smash off to remove them, did not realise that the castings failed, is it that failure that cause them to be removed and replaced by the claw

[Laurence Hogg]

I thought they had been smash off to remove them, did not realise that the castings failed, is it that failure that cause them to be removed and replaced by the claw

 

Spot on John, that's where the claws came from as I was led to understand.