Aftersale Issues

[JamesLeeds]

Hey All,

 

Dont want to go into too much detail on here as its a public forum, however just after some views on the following.

 

Sold my boat through a brokerage last month, And though not advised spent a fair bit of time with the buyer to demo the boat and show how things worked, what worked needed doing etc. Hiring cars at weekends to get to him etc. The buyer has since taken the boat to his mooring.

 

I received a letter today by special delivery from the buyer explaining how disappointed he was in the boat, as he had been having cooling problems on his maiden voyage. The letter hints that I somehow would have known that there was an issue with cooling (I had explained previously that the cooling intake is easily blocked.. so keep an eye on it) but the report explains that the cooling water was not being delivered at a fast enough rate. This has never been an issue and I have cruised over 8 hours at a time.

 

He has subsequently gone to get a full report done on the engine and cooling system that has obviously identified some issues (None of which I would personally consider serious or problematic) along with a quote to have work done. He has demanded a cheque within 5 days to cover the cost, or a full refund. I cant find any record of the engineer that created the report, and it does appear to be printed on the same paper in the same style as the cover letter.

 

The work includes, but is not limited to:

 

- Change freshwater cooling system to keel cooled (Possibly, or relocate intake to side)

- Testing heat exchanger

- Full engine service

- Battery test and new leads

- Alternated tested and replaced should it be required

- ReWire

- Lighting fitted to engine compartment

- Bilge pump checked and replaced if necessary

 

It was even noted in the report that narrowboats normally have more than 2 batteries and therefore up to three new ones have been added to the cost breakdown.

To me this looks like a cheeky attempt to get £5k's worth of new engine bits.

 

Its worth noting that the boat was sold at a reduced price (Reduction was based on the sale not being subject to a survey) The boat had a 4 day cruise to get to the place of brokerage so considered in working order!

 

I ended up spending 5k when I bought the boat for various problems, I usually put these things down to the nature of boating!

 

Has anyone ever had this issue? Or sent such a letter? How should I proceed?

[luctor et emergo]

No survey? Tell him to sling his hook, or you'll report him to the police for harrasment.

[NB Lola]

Caveat emptor applies

[Albion]

No survey? Tell him to sling his hook, or you'll report him to the police for harrasment.

 

Absolutely agree with L et E. If he didn't choose to have a survey then the boat is bought as seen. The list of 'supposed' recommended changes to the existing set up seems very extensive and I would think that this is an attempt, as you say, to get a load of improvements at your expense. This situation is why most on here always recommend a pre-purchase survey because all the negotiation is done up front rather than belated attempts like this.

Roger

[JamesLeeds]

Nope no survey, though thats what makes it more annoying.. Should a survey have been done (I provided one from 2 years before btw) none of this would have even been on it!

[mrsmelly]

Caveat emptor applies

 

Absolutely..Tough titty in my eyes. Tell him to take a long walk on a short pier.

[alan_fincher]

Unless you at any point misrepresented any facts or sought to mislead the buyer about anything, I can't see they have any comeback on you whatsoever.

 

They chose to buy the boat without a survey, so in my view took a decision to risk possible issues, in order to save the cost of putting it through one.

 

I would say they have no comeback on you at all, if you have acted honestly throughout.

 

As to suggesting you pay for things like a skin tank, lighting in the engine area, or extra batteries, any of which it could be determined it never had....... Well, they are surely having a laugh, aren't they ?

[David Mack]

He chose not to have a survey and is now whinging about the sort of things which a survey would have told him.

 

Tell him (politely) to get stuffed!

 

David

[KevMc]

As you sold through a brokerage I don't believe he has any right to approach you - any contract must surely be with them

[JamesLeeds]

Nothing much has changed since I got a survey, Im pretty certain such a survey would have been clean with maybe a few of the jobs I had neglected to do.. These being jobs I had actually told him about anyway!

 

Not to mention, he should really be going to the brokerage as opposed to me like !

 

He is quoting the sale of goods act 1979 that the boat is not fit for purpose

[alan_fincher]

So he is asking you for a large cheque, or a full refund.

 

What action, (if at all), does he suggest he will take if you do not comply ?

[JamesLeeds]

There is no further action listed:

 

"I therefore look to you to assist me by accepting the enclosed costing and I look

forward to receiving your cheque in payment of this account by return, or your firm written undertaking to have the repairs as listed undertaken and completed to my satisfaction by a professional yard of your own choice. Alternatively, of course, you could refund the full amount of money paid to you for the purchase"

 

"Whichever of the above options you choose; I will require you to inform me in writing of your choice within 5 days of the date of this letter"

[RLWP]

Nothing much has changed since I got a survey, Im pretty certain such a survey would have been clean with maybe a few of the jobs I had neglected to do.. These being jobs I had actually told him about anyway!

 

Not to mention, he should really be going to the brokerage as opposed to me like !

 

He is quoting the sale of goods act 1979 that the boat is not fit for purpose

 

Take this up with your broker

 

Richard

[Barry]

However your continued use of the boat since you bought it undoubtedly proves that it is fit for purpose

 

The man is a chancer, probably arrogant enough to think that the world should run the way he wants it to rather than the way it actually is.

 

He took a chance by buying a boat without a survey - that was his choice. You reduced the price because there was no survey - that was generous of you

 

If I were you I would tell him that you are not obliged to comply with his request. The deal is done and you want no further correspondence from him.

 

You can get further support (or check where you really stand) by speaking to the CAB or some solicitors will give you an hour free

Edited February 16, 2012 by Bazza2

[luctor et emergo]

Hahaha,

 

tell him you report him to the police. Harrasment, attempting to obtain goods with malice...

 

 

Unfit for purpose? Ask him if it still floats...

[RLWP]

 

Unfit for purpose? Ask him if it still floats...

 

More likely he's got cold feet now he's bought the boat

 

Richard

[Paringa]

Try not to stress he is trying it on...

 

At what point would the buyer have taken over full responsibility? 1 Week after sale? A month? A year? It is nonsense... It can only be at point of sale, when signing on the dotted line. If he has decided to get it serveyed now it is too late.

 

I suspect he has seen the broker and they have laughed him away and now he is after you.

 

Personally i would ignore it.

[cotswoldsman]

If you did not give a warranty or sell it on the basis of sale or return he does not have any grounds. If he managed to move it from where it was bought to where it is now then it is fit for purpose. Can you imagine what would happen to the second hand car market if this sort of thing was allowed, or for that matter to the property market. In all those cases the buyer has the option to have a survey or inspection done.....

[Nev]

When we brought our boat from a broker there was a lot of paperwork signed - like others have advised let the broker know, they should have some form of hand over paperwork and I would expect it to cover the transfer of ownership and therefore responsibility. Cheeky bugger I say, takes all sorts !

 

Nev

 

NB Waterlily

[soldthehouse]

Dont involve solicitors...... He is obviously a chancer. All you will do is open "the jobs for the lads" can of worms and end up paying for a protracted saga that they will make a fortune out of. He is the one being unreasonable its bound to be disconcerting but thats the trouble with some people just put it down to the percentage rule

[JamesLeeds]

Discounting all the other 'requests' that would result in nearly a full engine rebuild.. The main point of the letter seems to be:

 

"I am very disappointed that the boat has not performed to my expectations. During its first voyage, from [snip] the engine consistently overheated and it was discovered that the fault did not lie with a blockage of the intake, but that the water intake system itself is at fault.

 

I understand that you had already been made aware of the problem, and

I am disappointed that you did not make any reference to the full extent of the

problem repair during the selling process, despite being given every opportunity to do so.

"

 

Not quite sure what this is in reference to, but its never bothered me over the past 2+ years of ownership.. apart from the odd coathanger down the seacock!

[Guest]

I agree with much of the above so not really adding a lot other than support.

 

Key to me is the lack of survey, if some one buys something without one particularly when it is at a reduced price then it's tough in my book, after all, is not the reduced price to cover the fact that something may come to light that neither you nor the seller was aware of???

 

Tell him to <insert appropriate expletive> off!!

[JamesLeeds]

Thanks for all the advice, its pretty much what I was thinking.

 

The reason I went through a brokerage is to avoid this sort of situation (I still have the guy from my last boat sale calling 2 years later asking how to fill the water!) And I'm annoying I spent so much time with him making sure he was happy with everything, and even ended up doing a few extra jobs for him, as well as throwing in a licence and a post sale test drive and pump out!

 

If the boat was perfect, I'd have added an extra 10k to the price I imagine I can find £5k's worth of work that needs doing to any boat in the system if I wanted to!

 

I think some people cannot be pleased!

[fuzzyduck]

Yeah, tell him to Foxtrot Oscar.

 

Sounds like the buyer is stupid at best (buying without survey), or a chancer at worst.

[Richard10002]

Don't even give him the courtesy of a reply. You might say something that causes you a problem down the line. It's for him to take you to court if he thinks he has a case, at which time you, and the judge, can put him straight on how private sales work.