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About to liveaboard with wife, baby and cocker spaniel - Help!


Valcesca

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All - I hope you can help. :cheers:

 

I'm a new addition to the forum and I need to know/understand (if possible) a couple of things with regards to living on a narrowboat, with a small family.

 

To explain - There's me, my wife, our little 6 month old boy and our cocker spaniel. We've been desperate to move onto a narrowboat for many years now but when we found out that we were going to have a baby, we put it on hold. Now he's 6 months, we've stepped up a gear and are now searching again for the right boat etc. We've talked so much about what an incredible life we could have on a boat and how it would be a much healthier life for our son....watching the wildlife, seeing and really experiencing the seasons come and go and not being cooped up playing on a Playstation all the time! We want him to have a real respect for nature and have an appreciation of things like energy etc. which is ever more important in this day and age. I can't think of a lovelier upbringing for a child.

 

That said, being a responsible new Dad, I really want to make sure that we find the right boat and that I fully understand (as much as I can!) what I need in a boat to give us as comfortable and safe a life as possible. It's a little daunting! Any advice you could give me would be very greatly appreciated.

 

Firstly, we have decided to go for a narrowboat. We thought about a widebeam at first (room-wise) but we really would like to do quite a bit of cruising and with the right fit out, it would be enough space for us I'm sure. We can't buy a new one as our budget won't stretch that far but we're looking at around the 57ft mark with a top price of £50,000. Obviously, as we won't be buying new I'm worrying a bit about the heating and power. So here goes:

 

1. Heating - We will definitely have a multi-fuel stove, but what heating would be best on the boat...as we have a little son, is diesel heating the right way to go? How would this work - would the engine need to be on the whole time to heat the boat? Sorry for being ignorant!

 

2. Power - This seems to be a real minefield. We will be occasionally running laptops and I have a small studio (as I'm a composer) so I have a keyboard and speakers. What system could you recommend that doesn't involve running the engine all day long (as I've heard this is bad for diesel engines) - I know it's all to do with alternators and inverters and batteries but I'm getting lost in it all!

 

3. Is anyone out there who has had a baby/children on the boat and would you say that it is vital to have a washing machine? My wife is adamant we can get away without one but I'd like to make sure by listening to people that have actually done it!

 

Based on the above, we have looked a couple of times at a boat that is in the right price range and has a nice feel and this is the spec...do you think it would be ok for us?

 

- 4 cylinder diesel engine

- 240v ring main (allowing landline electricity)

- Morso solid fuel stove

- 1500w inverter

- Eberspacher diesel fired heating (feeding 4 radiators)

- 150 gallon water tank

 

I'm not sure how many batteries it has.

 

So that's it. Sorry to waffle on, but as I say, I'm getting a bit stuck on what would be sufficient for us. Thanks so much for reading this far. It's all a bit daunting but I think it'll be worth it once we're onboard and a little bit further away from the craziness of modern life!

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Welcome to the forum!

 

Speaking for myself, that looks OK. You'll probably need to get a petrol generator, too, for times when you're not near a landline and you don't want to run the engine to charge the batteries.

 

You'll also need to consider water heating. Run off the engine cooling, a diesel system or immersion (or all three!).

 

I've a 57ft and was well under £50k from www.vcmarine.co.uk - highly recommended. Don't forget that a full survey is always A Good Thing!!

 

Again, welcome to the forum, and happy boating! :):cheers:

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All - I hope you can help. :cheers:

 

I'm a new addition to the forum and I need to know/understand (if possible) a couple of things with regards to living on a narrowboat, with a small family.

 

[massive snip]

 

Boy, you ask the simplest of questions don't you? :)

 

You've obviously done a considerable amount of research already, but don't stop there. You've hit on the main concerns, ie. power and heat. Sort these out and you're well on the way. The spec. for that 57' you mention is identical to my boat, with the exception of the diesel central heating which I don't need. My boat's 45' and the Squirrel is more than adequate, but there again I'm on my own and any privations I suffer are my sole responsibility.

 

Power is the real problem. I run a 1500w inverter from a single dedicated battery, not attached to the domestics. I also run a teensy little 350w inverter from the domestics(2) which powers/charges the laptop and the mobile. I do have to run the engine to keep things reasonable, but it's really not a problem out here on the Thames. On the cut or in a marina (with no shore power) there are other people to consider when you fire up the engine. Investigate wind and solar power, and maybe a small quiet generator (Honda, to mention the best) to augment your power supply. Do without the washing machine if you can - real power gobblers, and if your wife claims you can do without, go with that.

 

I have a flat screen TV aboard, which I hardly use. I watch the small amount of TV I'm interested in on the laptop, using a USB digital TV stick (£40 from PCWorld) attached to a huge digital aerial. Not found bad reception anywhere yet (mind you, you should see the size of the aerial!) I reckon not powering the full-size TV saves me quite a bit of power.

 

Life as a liveaboard is fantastic when it's good, and slightly less so come the grim months of Dec/Jan/Feb.

 

My best piece of advice? - Stick around this forum; there are literally dozens of extremely experienced people around here who will gladly offer all sorts of good advice. I couldn't have done it without their help.

 

Good luck,

JOTW

 

Sorry Chris - our posts leap-frogged.

Edited by JohnOnTheWey
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I'll be keeping a close eye on this topic as we're in a similar situation to Valcesca (minus the 6 month old baby).

 

We're definitely after a widebeam as I'll be working from the boat (graphic designer/musician) and I just know we'll need the space if we're to avoid strangling one another after a week. We're not bothered about cruising the whole system - pootling along the L&L will be fine for us, based as near to Barnoldswick as possible.

 

I've done a lot of research but I'm still unsure about loads of things - inverters, hull quality, batteries/gennies, swim... the list goes on. I hope to absorb the info found on this great website in small doses.

 

We have our eye on two boats - one is 57' and the other is 61' (both 10' wide). The first is probably the most versatile (turning the boat round, for example) but the latter gives us more workable space. However, the L&L maximum length is 62' - is this going to be a bit tight for us when it comes to locks? Has anyone any experience of a 61-footer on the L&L?

 

I've already gleaned valuable info about t'Internet from the folks on here - Web 'n' Walk sounds like it's the answer.

 

Thanks to all so far and I'm sure Valcesca will benefit from the combined experience and knowledge of Canal World people as much as I have done.

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Regarding inverters, there are two basic types. One produces a rough

approximation of an AC signal (quasi sine wave). This is fine for many things, radios,

laptop chargers etc. However, I bet it won't be good

enough for musical equipement.

 

So you need to look at the second type, 'pure sine wave'. As you

will have guessed, these are more expensive . . .

If you are working from home, power is going to be your biggest issue.

 

As for heating, it is easy to heat a boat, particularly with solid

fuel. However, it always remains much colder at floor level, which

can be difficult for small children playing on the floor. For your

child, I suggest you build in a raised play area of some type. If

you make it so the dog can't climb up, it will keep the dog hair

and inevitable dirt off the play area as well. This should be

easy enough to build into a widebeam, maybe put the dogbed

underneath.

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All - I hope you can help. :cheers:

 

 

3. Is anyone out there who has had a baby/children on the boat and would you say that it is vital to have a washing machine? My wife is adamant we can get away without one but I'd like to make sure by listening to people that have actually done it!

 

Oh yes ! We've had a child on board, from 6 months old (he's now 2 and 1/2). Unless you're in a marina, moored next to a laundrette, I'd say a washing machine is at least as vital as the hull ...

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The biggest hassle of living without one is the drying of clothes. Washing machines spin out so much of the water. I found hand-washing used a lot of water, as well.

 

Saying that, we've managed without one for the last 3 years. We use a laundrette, which is expensive, but the clothes come back folded and dry. As we both work, it is difficult to imagine where we'd find the time to wash, dry and fold up clothes for 7 people (3 full-time, 4 part-time).

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Oh yes ! We've had a child on board, from 6 months old (he's now 2 and 1/2). Unless you're in a marina, moored next to a laundrette, I'd say a washing machine is at least as vital as the hull ...

 

After having brought up a child in a house I can say most definately that a washer is vital - but also think about on a boat where you are going to dry stuff - especially when it's cold and wet outside, id spring for a washer dryer as well! so the 3.5Kw genset is a must.... This may not be seem too much of an issue at 6 months - but wait until your young darling gets mobile..

 

As far as TV, Video & Music goes a laptop/small form factor PC running mediacentre is a major win - with t-mobile web'n'walk being great for 3G connectivity. The PC really comes into it's own with young children as you make backup copies of all those kiddy DVD's onto the hard drive and hey presto - lots less tears... the little inverters are great for this, also you end up with less wires compared to a normal system with it all in a single box! and if you're away from the boat it all packs up into a single bag and can get easily hidden aboard or taken with you...

 

A decent ariel is a must though...

 

Oh and with a toddler on the boat - please fence in your bow and stern - spending time with daddy whilst he's driving the boat brings a whole new world of worries if you don't.

 

 

Simes.

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We have an integrated washer/dryer,the washer works fine, but condenser dryers(which the integrated ones seem too have) take far too long and also use water for drying too. Whilst this isn't much of a problem if you have shorepower, running gennies for ages and I mean ages(around 3 hours for a wash and dry), can become tiresome.

 

If we did it again, it would be the small Candy (which work off a 1500 watt inverter) and a studio tumble dryer with a hose out of the window if needs be.

 

Valcesca-you are correct about the power minefield, however, if you are going to do this, you need to give serious consideration to it. Adults can rough it to a degree-but kids can't.

 

The electrics are probably the single most important area for you to consider. Personally, I would allow for a decent generator and inverter along with on-board washing and drying facilities in your costings.

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All,

 

Thanks all so much for your help. I've been away for the weekend but have come back to all these replies and reading through them just now I already feel like I now know ten times as much. A real help. Thanks again.

 

My wife and I have done a lot of talking about how we can live on the boat as comfortably as we can, giving our little baby (soon to be little boy!) as safe an upbringing as possible.

 

David and Julie - You're absolutely right, what we may be able to deal with in terms of cold and damp and lack of washing in a machine, will not be suitable for the little one. So that's why we're thinking really hard as to what we need and what we don't. The washing machine, believe it or not, is a real issue as we've discussed launderettes, "Magic Washers" etc....and I know that these would probably be fine for us but not with our son as well. And of course (Twoputtyrats and Alastair) you're absolutely right about the drying aspect and we hadn't got to that bit yet! So, the first thing I'm going to do is show my wife the answers you've all kindly given so far and suggest that a washing machine - perhaps a Candy - would probably be very worthwhile with a little boy.

 

I'm going to look at the 3.5kw genset you recommended (Twoputtyrats) as I think something like this will be the way to go, as well as looking at pure sinewave. I really get the feeling from everyone so far that the power subject is one of the most important (if not the most importaant) of them all and so I'll carry on slogging away and researching, but I feel like we're getting there thanks to the advice on this forum...any more thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated....

 

There's light at the end of the tunnel!

:cheers:

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  • 2 weeks later...

We have 3 cocker spaniels, but don't live aboard.

 

They love the boat, and are very good on and off most of the time. However, cockers are hairy, and even rain let alone canal water makes them VERY wet. :)

Invest in those rag rugs. We cover the floor in them, very absorbant, easily washed and dried - a must with our dogs when boating or camping!! :wub:

 

Good luck!

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All,

 

Thanks all so much for your help. I've been away for the weekend but have come back to all these replies and reading through them just now I already feel like I now know ten times as much. A real help. Thanks again.

 

My wife and I have done a lot of talking about how we can live on the boat as comfortably as we can, giving our little baby (soon to be little boy!) as safe an upbringing as possible.

 

David and Julie - You're absolutely right, what we may be able to deal with in terms of cold and damp and lack of washing in a machine, will not be suitable for the little one. So that's why we're thinking really hard as to what we need and what we don't. The washing machine, believe it or not, is a real issue as we've discussed launderettes, "Magic Washers" etc....and I know that these would probably be fine for us but not with our son as well. And of course (Twoputtyrats and Alastair) you're absolutely right about the drying aspect and we hadn't got to that bit yet! So, the first thing I'm going to do is show my wife the answers you've all kindly given so far and suggest that a washing machine - perhaps a Candy - would probably be very worthwhile with a little boy.

 

I'm going to look at the 3.5kw genset you recommended (Twoputtyrats) as I think something like this will be the way to go, as well as looking at pure sinewave. I really get the feeling from everyone so far that the power subject is one of the most important (if not the most importaant) of them all and so I'll carry on slogging away and researching, but I feel like we're getting there thanks to the advice on this forum...any more thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated....

 

There's light at the end of the tunnel!

:)

 

Hey folks

 

your right. washing and keeping clean is probably the most important factor when chosing to livaboard( unless your a stinker to begin with) sorry....dont know where that came from

 

Installing and using a washing machine is easy. the hard part is dryng the soddin (.....sodden.....soddon...get it?) stuff if you dont have a residential mooring

 

I set aside a cabin which isnt used much, purely for drying clothes.

not always easy on a boat where space is vital. But, you will find a way that suits you...;.we all have. each boat and boater is different. what works for one dont always work for the other...so... give it a go...try various options and you will find what suits you most.

 

go on go on go on go on

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We moved on board with a just under 1 year old at the time, and whilst he wasn't walking, things were a lot easier. As soon as he got mobile, then you suddenly realise things.

 

The good thing about a boat is the steps leading to the bow and stern are removeable. Useful to stop the wee darlings climbing out, and we have done so many a time.

 

We also find a small pushchair a god send (a cheap fold up thing, nothing fancy) which we put up at the stern just a few feet from the bottom of the steps. Put brakes on, strap baby in. Great if you need two hands for doing a lock, or turn or mooring up as you know exactly where they are and they can also watch you as you cruise.

 

We do this, and our boy is nearly two (in two days!), and he will sit there quite happily for half an hour or so, then once we are set off, we bring him out back with us as he can sit with me or hubby (whoever isn't steering) and watch the other boats or ducks etc.

 

Then if we need to do something we put him back in the pushchair. He's not always impressed, but at least he is very safe. We also have a small TV at the very back for the kids on occasion and one of those omni directional aerials. Useful when you are cruising and want to keep them entertained for a tad with Cbeebies (works for about ten minutes with my son, but gives you time to put a cuppa on).

 

A fire guard is also a must if you have a multi fuel stove. We had a back boiler with ours which connected to the eberspacher pipework. It had a 240 pump, which was fine when connected to shoreline, but drained your batteries when out and about. We are having the back boiler removed as we could either use one (the stove) or two (eber), and it was a pain. At least with an independant stove, you can run both heating systems if you needed to.

 

We know many people who have five or six leisure batteries and can last ages out on the cut without running their engine, but once they are drained, it takes some whumph to get them back up. We have three leisure, one starter and it seems to be a nice balance.

 

A genny is a must if you plan to spend a lot of time out and run things like laptops. Loads of these folks have them on here, so I'm sure they will give you the 'good ones' to look out for.

 

Oh and one more thing. Be careful what you keep in the bow. If you have a quick handed little devil like my son, and are sitting out enjoying the weather and view, some of it could well end up in the cut (so better get yourself a sea searcher and fishing net as well). More than a few keys on your cork keyring, it will sink anyway!

 

Good luck finding the boat, it's really exciting and I don't blame you at all. We have been on board a year and a month now, and I wouldn't change it for the world (apart from all the painting I'm doing!!!!). I love it really!

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Hi Valcesca,

I'm a liveaboard full time musician and run a personal studio from my narrowboat. You don't say whether you're recording in your studio, but I would guess you are. Soundcards which draw power from your laptop via usb or firewire are the way to go. You can charge your laptop off a car charger from your 12v supply, and because you're not running it direct from the power supply but from charging batteries you don't have to worry about freaky glitches. I run an E-mu PCMCIA cardbus 1616m thing which needs external power, which is a nuisance. I can use it off a fully charged up battery bank via a modified sine wave inverter without problems, but if the voltage drops too far you start getting sonic glitches. A pure sine wave inverter works ok. Don't get an enormous one and hope to use it for everything around the boat. They drain power FAST and are expensive. Get one dedicated small one for your studio which can run everything you'll need at the same time but no more. Be prepared to put up with some weird hums and glitchy sounds in your headphones. Don't worry too much. Most times they don't appear in the recording!

All the best,

Cris

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All - I hope you can help. :lol:

 

I'm a new addition to the forum and I need to know/understand (if possible) a couple of things with regards to living on a narrowboat, with a small family.

 

Best of luck, personally think it could be a bit cramped (my partner and my cat tend to hog the bed ;) ) but then again you could all absolutely love it. Basic spec sounds fine. Ours is very similar but no baby and no dog and I certainly wouldn't be without the washing machine (and Ecover washing powder which is fab and less harmful to the environment). Have you got a mooring sorted or are you going to be have fab adventures continuous cruising around the system? Will you have a car and how are you going to manage access to health care and then schooling for your little one. These aspects are worth thinking about now as getting a suitable mooring to allow school regular school attendance in the future without falling foul of navigation authority rules could take some time to find. It does sound like you've done your research but it is harder with kids if you don't have a permanent mooring and there is loads of stuff to to think about.

Wishing you a happy life on the cut.

Debbi

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We moved on board with a just under 1 year old at the time, and whilst he wasn't walking, things were a lot easier. As soon as he got mobile, then you suddenly realise things.
Thanks so much again everybody for your words of encouragement and advice.....we really are getting somewhere now!Stonehenge - Great advice about your little one. Sounds like yours is exactly how I think our one will turn out. He's already grabbing everything in sight (and all going into his mouth) and I foresee that he's going to be a rascal so your advice is invaluable. He loves watching us do things and the pushchair idea is great. At the moment he's not begun crawling but he's 7 months so I guess that's just around the corner. I'm glad you say you wouldn't change it.....really encouraging. We're pressing on!
Hi Valcesca,I'm a liveaboard full time musician and run a personal studio from my narrowboat.
Hi Cris,Many thanks for your advice on this....it's really going to be an important part of us living aboard. Although I teach music, I also compose for TV and film so getting the right set-up is important. The idea about the car charger is great. I'll look into it. I've currently got an Omega Lexicon external audio/MIDI interface (sadly that, like yours, takes external power). But I'll do most of my composing using headphones and am looking at getting some decent (but small!) passive monitor speakers. I'm going to go down the laptop/USB keyboard route, as you say, as it'll take the load of the batteries. I'll beware of the hums and glitches. Hmmm, maybe I'll have to look at selling my external sound card and look for one that is powered by USB (as well as the keyboard).....I don't suppose you can recommend any can you?Thanks again.
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  • 4 weeks later...

we used a wooden high chair - sawed the legs off and attached to the top of the boat! with safety straps of course (and removeable for low bridges etc) little one loved seeing all around and was "captured and secured" when we needed to know where she was (eyes in the back of the head are also useful on boats with children :smiley_offtopic:) once they get used to the boat rules they are fine..just start as you mean to go on..preferabley before they can crawl and walk - then they are used to the "rules" before they can argue! A birds eye view is so much more fun than being confined to below deck every time i needed to steer etc

just our idea! to add to all the others..

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We liveaboard our boat, moved on about 10 months ago. Living through the Winter months, I can tell you a diesel heating system is great at getting the boat warm quickly but creates a noise so isnt the best thing to leave on during the night if you are a light sleeper. We here are in a Marina, so have the luxury of electricity to plug into which for us runs our heater during the night. We also have a dehumidifier to contain that unwanted condensation that forms too.

 

The first thing that you need to sort out, is where you are going to moor the boat, ie your long term mooring. If like us the facilities are their for washing, then you dont have to have your own facility on board.

 

We enjoy the life afloat, but do have the luxury of living in a Marina.

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  • 7 months later...
I'm going to go down the laptop/USB keyboard route, as you say, as it'll take the load of the batteries. I'll beware of the hums and glitches. Hmmm, maybe I'll have to look at selling my external sound card and look for one that is powered by USB (as well as the keyboard).....I don't suppose you can recommend any can you?Thanks again.

 

Hi,

I lost track of this thread at the time but anyway, I thought I'd update you with what I'm doing studio wise at the mo. I've kept the E-mu1616m soundcard but only use it for top focus stereo recordings. The pcmcia dsp card which is part of it is still very useful for mobile mixing on a train say, and for the dsp fx.

 

But for everyday use I got a Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 thingy. The record quality is great - as good as the E-mu really, and its USB 2 bus powered, which has resolved all earthing hum and power supply issues, and has made glitches a thing of the past. Highly recommended. Got one with the Guitar Rig plugins in a bundle. Marvellous stuff.

 

I do have a pair of Genelec powered monitors, but to be honest I record and mix for the most part on AKG headphones, partly for my wife's benefit (she gets a bit sick of hearing the same thing going round for hours, tho she is a great violinist!), and partly to save power. Perhaps when the Honda suitcase genny, and the solar rig come I'll use them more. They're great for recording, but perhaps too good for mixing for everyday listening, as hardly anybody has a hifi which sounds that good.

 

So yes, USB bus powered stuff is the absolute answer to boaty recording studios I reckon. B)

Let me know how your studio's working out.

 

Edited to say, I've noticed Valcesca isn't here anymore ! Anybody else got a recording studio in their wardrobe - or even in its own cabin ? Want to talk about it ?

Edited by Cris P
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Anybody else got a recording studio in their wardrobe - or even in its own cabin ? Want to talk about it ?

 

I'd love to have a discussion about on-boat recording studios - maybe start another dedicated topic?

 

I use Garageband 3 on my MacBookPro - anything more meaty and I'm hopelessly lost. However, I'd be very interested to hear what other people are using.

 

I play acoustic guitar and have a USB keyboard (the latter still in my mother's loft until we sort enough space on the boat) plus decent mic and various effects units etc.

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Thanks so much again everybody for your words of encouragement and advice.....we really are getting somewhere now!Stonehenge - Great advice about your little one. Sounds like yours is exactly how I think our one will turn out. He's already grabbing everything in sight (and all going into his mouth) and I foresee that he's going to be a rascal so your advice is invaluable. He loves watching us do things and the pushchair idea is great. At the moment he's not begun crawling but he's 7 months so I guess that's just around the corner. I'm glad you say you wouldn't change it.....really encouraging. We're pressing on!Hi Cris,Many thanks for your advice on this....it's really going to be an important part of us living aboard. Although I teach music, I also compose for TV and film so getting the right set-up is important. The idea about the car charger is great. I'll look into it. I've currently got an Omega Lexicon external audio/MIDI interface (sadly that, like yours, takes external power). But I'll do most of my composing using headphones and am looking at getting some decent (but small!) passive monitor speakers. I'm going to go down the laptop/USB keyboard route, as you say, as it'll take the load of the batteries. I'll beware of the hums and glitches. Hmmm, maybe I'll have to look at selling my external sound card and look for one that is powered by USB (as well as the keyboard).....I don't suppose you can recommend any can you?Thanks again.

 

hi valcesca , i use a edirol ua-25 soundcard [usb] and find it good.one thing to bear in mind ,unless you have shore power its impossible to record acustic instruments or vox with a genny runing on the stern even a honda. what i do is 1. record from headphones while laptop charges from inverter 2. then record utill laptop power runs out then repeat the relay or else turn on the genny and do some mixing or keyboard work. hope this makes some sence.

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Good point pquinn.

My laptop + usb soundcard will run for many hours (not being any more precise than that - I haven't timed it) off the mini 12v to 16v transormer. I use a little 75w inverter for running the monitors - although not often unless I'm charging up off something. To be honest the monitors are only really used for confirming the headphone mix, which is a shame cos they're nice. I've got a Honda genny coming today tho, so I expect I'll use them more soon.

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