Recreational Craft Directive

[Bruv]

Hi. I am in the end stages of fitting my boat out. I had planned to live on the Boat but have run out of money and now need to sell and restart. It is a new build so I have to complete The Recreational Craft Directive (RCD). As my boat is a category D, I plan to self assess the boat. I don`t have the money to pay a surveyor. I have downloaded all the info telling me what I need to do to self assess and I do have a good bit of the work done, But I am still not sure if I have done enough or done it correctly. 

I would love to hear from anyone that has self assessed or paid to have their RCD done. I really could do with some help. If there are any kindly surveyors on here that would offer some help, I would be very grateful. Thanks.

[MtB]

You don't HAVE to do it. You could sell the boat 'as it is' to someone who likes it and doesn't care about the RCD. It happens quite a lot. I personally know of two cases.

The chances of you being prosecuted are vanishingly slim so it depends on your attitude to risk.

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

You don't HAVE to do it. You could sell the boat 'as it is' to someone who likes it and doesn't care about the RCD. It happens quite a lot. I personally know of two cases.

The chances of you being prosecuted are vanishingly slim so it depends on your attitude to risk.

Yep.

[blackrose]

33 minutes ago, Bruv said:

Hi. I am in the end stages of fitting my boat out. I had planned to live on the Boat but have run out of money and now need to sell and restart. It is a new build so I have to complete The Recreational Craft Directive (RCD). As my boat is a category D, I plan to self assess the boat. I don`t have the money to pay a surveyor. I have downloaded all the info telling me what I need to do to self assess and I do have a good bit of the work done, But I am still not sure if I have done enough or done it correctly. 

I would love to hear from anyone that has self assessed or paid to have their RCD done. I really could do with some help. If there are any kindly surveyors on here that would offer some help, I would be very grateful. Thanks.

Sorry to hear that Bruv. Seems a shame to have done all that work fitting out and find that now you are forced to sell. But if you are at the end stages of fitting out and have presumably been doing the work in accordance with the RCD, then to me it would seem foolish to abandon the RCD because you will reduce your market for the sale. As Mike says, you could flout the law, sell up without completing the RCD and you're unlikely to face any consequences, but on the other hand many buyers may be put off by the fact that they would be purchasing a boat without the correct paperwork. Personally if I was buying a self-fit out boat less than 5 years old without RCD then I'd want to see that omission reflected by a serious a reduction in price, but of course there are buyers who will be unaware, don't get the boat surveyed and may be willing to pay what you want. Your call...

[MtB]

On 23/07/2017 at 10:29, blackrose said:

Sorry to hear that Bruv. Seems a shame to have done all that work fitting out and find that now you are forced to sell. But if you are at the end stages of fitting out and have presumably been doing the work in accordance with the RCD, then to me it would seem foolish to abandon the RCD because you will reduce your market for the sale. As Mike says, you could flout the law, sell up without completing the RCD and you're unlikely to face any consequences, but on the other hand many buyers may be put off by the fact that they would be purchasing a boat without the correct paperwork. Personally if I was buying a self-fit out boat less than 5 years old without RCD then I'd want to see that omission reflected by a serious a reduction in price, but of course there are buyers who will be unaware, don't get the boat surveyed and may be willing to pay what you want. Your call...

 

I agree the market Bruv will be selling into will be much reduced but I'm not sure the price will be badly affected. When I bought such a boat after a year of searching for 'just the right boat' the absence of an RCD ticket didn't deter me in the slightest.

Similarly when I sold it for full market value. I explained the missing RCD and the buyer wasn't in the slightest bit bothered. He said he liked the boat and was not a 'paperwork man', and just bought it. Lots of boaters have little respect for RCD or concern about RCD paperwork, or even think to ask for it.

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree the market Bruv will be selling into will be much reduced but I'm not sure the price will be badly affected. When I bought such a boat after a year of searching for 'just the right boat' the absence of an RCD ticket didn't deter me in the slightest.

Similarly when I sold it for full market value. I explained the missing RCD and the buyer wasn't in the slightest bit bothered. He said he liked the boat and was not a 'paperwork man', and just bought it. Lots of boaters have little respect for RCD or concern about RCD paperwork, or even think to ask for it.

Precisely what I found with one of my boats. In fact I pointed out to the bloke who bought it from me that there was no RCD and he didn't give two hoots and sold for same price as if it had one. Not all people though would do the same.

[Bruv]

Hi, thanks for replying. I am doing the RCD myself. I am using one I was given by a friend from 2007 as a template. I have looked at the list of changes in the directive for 2017 and I am including them in my RCD. There may be a few mistakes and it may not contain every single item it should have. But unless a surveyor runs thru it and knows exactly what he is looking for I think it will be OK. I dont intend to sell it without the RCD. I was just worried, very worried about completing it, and it being done correctly. 

[blackrose]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree the market Bruv will be selling into will be much reduced but I'm not sure the price will be badly affected. When I bought such a boat after a year of searching for 'just the right boat' the absence of an RCD ticket didn't deter me in the slightest.

Similarly when I sold it for full market value. I explained the missing RCD and the buyer wasn't in the slightest bit bothered. He said he liked the boat and was not a 'paperwork man', and just bought it. Lots of boaters have little respect for RCD or concern about RCD paperwork, or even think to ask for it.

Yes, I do see your point Mike, but neither you nor I actually know the proportions of those buyers who are sticklers for the correct paperwork compared to those with the casual attitudes that you've experienced. You sold once without RCD compliance so possibly you may have just been lucky? Then of course there is the other type of buyer who will use any opportunity to beat the asking price down. 

Edited July 23, 2017 by blackrose

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Bruv said:

Hi, thanks for replying. I am doing the RCD myself. I am using one I was given by a friend from 2007 as a template. I have looked at the list of changes in the directive for 2017 and I am including them in my RCD. There may be a few mistakes and it may not contain every single item it should have. But unless a surveyor runs thru it and knows exactly what he is looking for I think it will be OK. I dont intend to sell it without the RCD. I was just worried, very worried about completing it, and it being done correctly. 

If you've done it to the best of your ability and it closely resembles that of your friend then I would say that you have the requisite RCD documentation

[Bruv]

Wow! This is honestly great to hear. I have been so bloody stressed, about the whole RCD thing.

[blackrose]

Yes, I would go forward with the attitude that you have basically completed it.

[MtB]

On 23/07/2017 at 10:45, blackrose said:

Yes, I do see your point Mike, but neither you nor I actually know the proportions of those who are sticklers for the correct paperwork compared to those with the casual attitudes that you've experienced. You sold once so possibly you may have just been lucky? Then of course there is the other type of buyer who will use any opportunity to beat the asking price down. 

 

True on all counts.

I have to say, I did check up before selling it if I was committing an offence by buying it, or by selling it on at a later date. But no I wasn't. There were only two people committing an offence, the seller, and the shell builder who refused to issue an Annex III declaration, which is why it had no RCD.

I actually checked with Trading standards (as they were called at the time). They told me they would be most unlikely to take action against anyone involved in such a case even if the offences were formally reported, saying and I quote, "we are very short staffed and we have far bigger fish to fry". 

 

[Bruv]

I have typed out the whole RCD document more or less word for word, just changing some of the phrasing, (to get over any copyright details)  adding all my own boat details etc I am getting the tech drawing for the electrics and the plumbing done and writing up the manual in the same way. The RCD doc I am using as a template was written up by a surveyor and was used to sell a boat. 

[MtB]

Reminded me in fact of the attitude HMRC take to diesel fuel usage proportion declarations. A waste of effort imposed on us by the EEC.

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

True on all counts.

I have to say, I did check up before selling it if I was committing an offence by buying it, or by selling it on at a later date. But no I wasn't. There were only two people committing an offence, the seller, and the shell builder who refused to issue an Annex III declaration, which is why it had no RCD.

I actually checked with Trading standards (as they were called at the time). They told me they would be most unlikely to take action against anyone involved in such a case even if the offences were formally reported, saying and I quote, "we are very short staffed and we have far bigger fish to fry". 

 

Yes, on this subject I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that the 5 year rule was actually designed to prevent boat builders avoiding the RCD, not individual boaters doing self-fit outs who have a change of circumstances.  

Edited July 23, 2017 by blackrose

[Bruv]

I think I am going to enjoy my day much more now.

[Bruv]

Thanks all for replying.

I was going to use a broker to sell as I could do with a quick sale, but was advised to put it in the appollo duck site as thats all a broker will do. Question is: When you sell a house you use a solicitor to exchange moneys. how do you safely exchange money when selling a boat?

[lulu fish]

26 minutes ago, Bruv said:

Thanks all for replying.

I was going to use a broker to sell as I could do with a quick sale, but was advised to put it in the appollo duck site as thats all a broker will do. Question is: When you sell a house you use a solicitor to exchange moneys. how do you safely exchange money when selling a boat?

Haha. Maybe try a broker?

[MtB]

On 23/07/2017 at 11:29, lulu fish said:

Haha. Maybe try a broker?

 

Brokers go bust and stitch up their clients too.

Stephen Harrall is an example much discussed on here.

[Chewbacka]

The risk is more for the buyer than the seller.  Talk to your bank and see at what point the transaction can not be reversed - I think if they transfer money electronically it is impossible for them to take it back if there was no fraud etc.  It is probably a good idea to tell the bank in advance of what you are doing as an unexpected - from the banks viewpoint - big lump of cash arriving in your account may trigger their money laundering rules.

Not sure how much you are selling the boat for, but when I bought my sailaway I had to transfer cash over a couple of days to avoid hitting the banks daily transfer limit, so your seller may also have this concern. - It is possible to transfer more by arrangement with the bank but then they charge a fee.  

[cuthound]

I would complete the RCD paperwork, and as you have tried to comply with the RCD to the best of your ability, sell it as self certified compliant.

If (and on a newish boat it is a big if) the seller has a survey and some areas of non-compIiance are found, then and only then, consider reducing the price to reflect the cost of the remedial work.

[MtB]

On 23/07/2017 at 12:44, cuthound said:

I would complete the RCD paperwork, and as you have tried to comply with the RCD to the best of your ability, sell it as self certified compliant.

 

I bet whoever buys the boat doesn't even ask about the RCD paperwork.

Just as no-one renting or buying a house ever asks about the Energy Performance Certificate.

[cuthound]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I bet whoever buys the boat doesn't even ask about the RCD paperwork.

Just as no-one renting or buying a house ever asks about the Energy Performance Certificate.

Depends on the buyer. Certainly when I was looking to buy a boat, I wanted an RCD compliant one, so that I had some reassurance that the services had been installed to a standard.

However I accept that I may not be a typical buyer, because I have spent all of my working life having to comply with standards, so I am aware of relevant standards and feel more comfortable with things that comply to them.

Given that the OP has tried to comply with the RCD it seems that he can self certify for very little extra effort and remove the risk of being forced to significantly reduce his asking price.

Edited July 23, 2017 by cuthound

[MtB]

On 23/07/2017 at 12:55, cuthound said:

 

Given that the OP has tried to comply with the RCD it seems that he can self certify for very little extra effort and remove the risk of being forced to significantly reduce his asking price.

 

Yes I agree with this. He may as well however, in the meantime start advertising the boat now and if any enquirers actually ask about RCD he can tell them the honest truth. It is being done now and will be complete in due course. On the other hand he may well find someone who just wants the boat and doesn't care about the paperwork, and/or is happy to do the RCD stuff. him/herself. 

[Midnight]

I fitted my boat out and craned it in, in August 2004 - does the EU law say I need an RCD if I was to sell it?

Edited July 23, 2017 by Midnight