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Who goes first? - question on etiquette


Dr Bob

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We are new to the canals so wanted to get some views on "who goes first" and what we did wrong last sunday.

We were out on the GU with the kids and grandkids heading from Braunston towards Norton Junct where we winded to go back to Braunston. We went under bridge 10 and turned into the Leicester arm....and then reversed in the direction of Buckby top lock ready to go forward back under bridge 10 back towards the tunnel. No other boats in sight. Unfortunately we picked up a plastic bag on the prop so came into the north bank of the canal a few yards to the east of the Leicester arm. Cleared the rubbish and then started off. Problem now was that we could see 3 boats coming down from the Braunston direction, spaced quite a bit apart. We were nearer the bridge 10 than the first boat, but gave him right of way as he was moving. He wanted to turn left up the Leicester arm so we reversed a bit to let him through - my fault, I should have seen that one coming and not covered his exit up the Leicester bit.

We then moved forward to go under bridge 10 but the second boat was coming fast although again we were nearer and now covering the turn to the Leicester arm. We therefore stayed put and let him come through and although we were across the junction he didnt signal he was turning north until through the bridge, therefore forcing us to reverse again. Ok - again we should have held back. What I am really p**sed with is the 3rd boat then put a lot of revs on and stormed through the bridge and again turned north when it had to be clear to him that we had been waiting and we were far nearer to the bridge than him and across his exit. Tailgating seemed to be the thing of the day.

What should we have done?

It was a very busy day with lots of boats about .....and some going very slowly. On the way back we caught up with a couple boats training some teenagers. We were 2nd in the queue behind them. Now we dont tend to go that fast and seem to settle on 1200 revs (which is circa 3.5 mph if the water is deep enough) when it is clear . We were forced to go at 700revs and cycle between being in forward gear and neutral......an no, it wasnt past moored boats, it was the 2 miles before and IN the Braunston tunnel. We are 63 ft and the boat steers a lot easier if we have 'some' revs on.

How do you guys react to situations like this? I've got no problem slowing down and going slowly but when its windy, a bit of steerage is very useful.

Keen to hear the wisdom of the forum.

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I tend to agree with above, the longer I travel around the more relaxed I am, and have more ability to hang around for more aggressive boats to get gone , but I appreciate your point , but also think you did right, and with more practice it won't annoy you as much. It doesn't normally happen that way y, but sometimes it does. Well done for not making a fight out of it.

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I wonder if they behave like that whilst aiming their motor cars along public roads. Being on the GU mainline you really had the right of way I suppose as the Leicester line is really like a side road off it. All three boats going bombing up the Leicester arm together would probably all bunch up together at the Watford locks anyway. In which case it would probably have paid them to slow up and space themselves out so as not to all arrive at the Watford locks together.

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We simply smile when boats rush by and thank heavens we are not like that. Had a chap following us through some locks a couple of days ago. Telling us he liked to go quickly and that we could open paddles faster than we were doing... We just smiled and slowed down a touch. Don't let the idiots spoil your day! 

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As you were closer to the bridge, you could have gone first. However you were stationery, so you did the right thing in hanging back. 

Its a real shame that neither the 2nd or 3rd boats let you through, as they could see the first boat turn through the junction. What time of day was this? Were they trying to get to Watford in time to get up the flight before the lockies left for the day? 

 

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I suggest - as per others - that you demonstrate your skills at keeping the boat under control while not moving forward. A mix of forward and reverse gear, keeping the bows pointed a bit towards the wind (if any). 

Of course if you were on a river then the boat(s) heading downstream would have priority ... 

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I think you did the right thing but just got caught out by the extra factor of the junction.

The official order of priority is;-

1. A pair of working boats

2. Nick Norman

3. Everyone else

OK, it's obviously not.

Technically nearest goes first but if you weren't sure you could clear the bridge without impeding the progress of the oncoming boats then it would generally be easier for a single boat to wait rather than three boats stop and try to hold channel in a line. That has the possibility of boats going sideways and getting stuck. Certainly having winded in front of other boats I would be a bit circumspect about then sneaking through in front of them. At Norton junction it's probably easier to wait on the Buckby side than the Braunston side as there is a deep wide channel and solid banks on both sides clear of the junction.

By and large you just have to sort it out between you with consideration for the particular circumstances and a dose of courtesy.

JP

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I thought that perhaps the steerers of the convoy of three boats, seeing him hold back and let the first one through, thought he was being polite and letting them all through.

5 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Hell is other people.

Deep! For this time of the morning anyway.

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19 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

I would have thought, the three boats could see you were on the junction, blocking the turn they wanted to use so should have really eased off and waved you through the bridge, thats what i would have done, got you out the way so i could turn.

 

Me too.

However, perhaps boat 3 thought "I'd best get a move on or that poor bloke who's been good enough to give way will be there all day". Or maybe both 2 & 3 thought of were having some sort of issue being as you were back and forth a bit. Things can look different from t'other end of the telescope is all I'm saying. :)

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If you were that first boat heading towards the bridge and you saw another boat under the bridge on the junction and there's two boats behind, doesn't it make sense to let that boat (you) get out of the way first, especially if you were partly blocking the entrance to the Leicester Arm?  That would mean all three boats heading towards the junction could make their turns without you in the way.  I think the steerers of those boats demonstrated their inexperience.

The second example I come across all the time and I consider it's bad manners.  If you are clearly going much slower than a boat coming up behind it's just polite to allow that boat to pass as soon as it's practical.  Unless of course it's a heavily locked section of canal.  I remember last year following a boat all the way up the Coventry from Fazeley Junction three hours at just under 3mph and the guy in front simply refused to let us pass almost certainly because it was late in the day and he knew very well mooring would be tight at Fradley (he was right).  It's not a question of being in too much of a hurry, as you say all boats have a natural cruising speed and it's a pain when you have to constantly adjust to someone else's rate of progress.

 

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Giving way If you’re approaching a bridge or narrow section, slow down. If a boat coming in the opposite direction is closer to the bridge, wave them through and keep right until they’re well clear. On rivers, the boat coming downstream has right of way.

 

From The boaters handbook

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/141.pdf

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6 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

The second example I come across all the time and I consider it's bad manners.  If you are clearly going much slower than a boat coming up behind it's just polite to allow that boat to pass as soon as it's practical.

 

I'd wondered about this, recently got stuck behind some chap coming off the Middlewich branch of the Shroppie who seemed to be constantly alternating between tick over and idling (you could see no prop wash behind the boat at times so deffo not under power). I kept catching him up then having to slow to avoid getting too close in case he was planning a manoeuvre. Eventually there were a further four boats behind me all having to cut power as he continued his pootle.

Eventually he stopped and pulled into the diesel station at Nantwich basin making me think he was perhaps low on fuel, by this point I'd run the gamut of frustration, annoyance and acceptance so just passed him without a glance. We stopped at the next clear stretch to have a brew and let everyone else crack on.

Now, still being a relative newbie (only third season of boating) I wondered if I'd done something wrong, should I have gesticulated or shouted when the chap occasionally looked behind? It seemed rude to motor up and tailgate to force the issue so I didn't, but should I have?

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3 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

 

Eventually he stopped and pulled into the diesel station at Nantwich basin making me think he was perhaps low on fuel, by this point I'd run the gamut of frustration, annoyance and acceptance so just passed him without a glance. We stopped at the next clear stretch to have a brew and let everyone else crack on.

Now, still being a relative newbie (only third season of boating) I wondered if I'd done something wrong, should I have gesticulated or shouted when the chap occasionally looked behind? It seemed rude to motor up and tailgate to force the issue so I didn't, but should I have?

Couldn't you or your crew just have shouted "do you mind if I overtake"?

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1 minute ago, billS said:

Couldn't you or your crew just have shouted "do you mind if I overtake"?

Like I said, I'm unsure of the etiquette or even if you can/should overtake. As nobody behind was shouting either I just assumed not. 

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2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Like I said, I'm unsure of the etiquette or even if you can/should overtake. As nobody behind was shouting either I just assumed not. 

There is no reason why you should not overtake provided that you can see well ahead and there are no blind corners or bridges hampering the manoeuvre. On a narrow canal, it really requires the co-operation of the slower boat, hence the need to communicate and receive acknowledgement of your intention.

No-one would have been shouting behind you because it would have been clear that you were not the cause of the hold up. It was up to you to communicate with the boat in front.

It was clearly being steered by someone who was either an arse or just a dozy bugger, otherwise they would have signalled you past. Your communication would have established which.

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Answering the last question regards being windy. There is really no choice but to apply a little more throttle when passing other boats. On the rare ocassion I have been shouted at for going too fast, if I am being blown towards the shouter I just say "The choice I have is going slowly and possibly hitting you or going at this speed and having steerage." If the wind is blowing the other way I just smile and carry on. 

As you say offshore and narrow boating are two totally different consepts both enjoyable in their own way. At least you have enjoyed standing beneath a cold shower tearing up £20 pound notes! Also in life I have a saying "Better to be a has been than a never was."

 

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9 hours ago, frahkn said:

Speaking strictly for myself and my 70', deep drafted boat - when I was "new to the canals" I would have got annoyed and wondered afterwards if I should have done something else. Now, 40+ years later I just take the rough with the smooth and let the shortsighted, the unthinking and the idiots get on with it.

Either tie up until they have gone or, better, use the various "obstructions" to practice your boat handling skills.

In any case, chill, the canals can be the last refuge of the calm and collected - on your boat (and mine) if not on all of them.

It's starting to get nasty out there but we don't have to join in!

 

Frank.

You were just unlucky in that the three boats coming the other way all had Audi or Bmw drivers at the helm.

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14 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

I'd wondered about this, recently got stuck behind some chap coming off the Middlewich branch of the Shroppie who seemed to be constantly alternating between tick over and idling (you could see no prop wash behind the boat at times so deffo not under power). I kept catching him up then having to slow to avoid getting too close in case he was planning a manoeuvre. Eventually there were a further four boats behind me all having to cut power as he continued his pootle.

Eventually he stopped and pulled into the diesel station at Nantwich basin making me think he was perhaps low on fuel, by this point I'd run the gamut of frustration, annoyance and acceptance so just passed him without a glance. We stopped at the next clear stretch to have a brew and let everyone else crack on.

Now, still being a relative newbie (only third season of boating) I wondered if I'd done something wrong, should I have gesticulated or shouted when the chap occasionally looked behind? It seemed rude to motor up and tailgate to force the issue so I didn't, but should I have?

The short answer is unless you are on a wide river or somewhere like the Main Line where there's a lot of room, if the boat in front won't let you pass there's not a lot you can do.  If you shout, or try using the horn, it's possible that it will be interpreted as an aggressive gesture which might not be well received and may make matters worse.  I'm just amazed that some boaters have such a thick skin, I even think some do it on purpose. 

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As regards to "Who goes first" in the heyday of canal carrying this issue was often settled with the fist, belt or windlass and that included the women who' d give as much if not better than the men. Mike has said he's often seen men "flattened" by women.

Edited by Ray T
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Also best to remember that the boat ahead of you is ahead of you and therefore has a better view (for the most part) than you do of the upcoming situation. On many stretches there is often no room to overtake safely, even with the co-operation of the slower boat. Sometimes the boat ahead may also have better knowledge of depth and hidden underwater conditions.

Best to chill and, when it gets really bad, feel (and look) sanctimoniously superior!

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3 hours ago, ianali said:

We simply smile when boats rush by and thank heavens we are not like that. Had a chap following us through some locks a couple of days ago. Telling us he liked to go quickly and that we could open paddles faster than we were doing... We just smiled and slowed down a touch. Don't let the idiots spoil your day! 

Why not just let him go by rather than being antagonistic?

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