Manchester Ship Canal

[chrisRoald]

Only a handfull of narrowboats/small vessels seem to be doing the Ellesmere Port to Weaver Navigation on the MSC this year! Admittedly the owning company, Peel Ports, make it hard work on the admin front, but after 3 days waiting and phoning (check by phone that your emailed application has been received and read - essential!) then waiting some more, we finally emerged onto the canal. Then took us just 1 3/4 hrs to get to Weston Marsh Lock, with just 2 larger vessels coming the other way on the Manchester.

Cost was £75 for seaworthiness cert, and £32 for transit on canal. CRT were the most helpful party, quickly arranging the lock opening for us. Cheshire council slow to organise the necessary swing bridge - last obstacle on the Shroppie at Ellesmere Port. 

...All worth the effort though - the River Weaver is beautiful and quiet and lots of mooring spaces. Now for the Anderton.

 

 

 

 

[frangar]

When we did this from Weston point to Ellesmere Port a few years ago the council "mislaid" my booking leaving me bobbing around in the basin until they found someone who could open the bridge. Given that it really isn't tricky to open a swing bridge...especially one that hardly sees any traffic...it seems an unessercery level of bureaucracy. 

I agree apart from that it's a fantastic trip. Watching the crew of a tanker hang over the rail looking at this strange boat going past level with top of their propeller which was coming out of the water was a memory that will be with me for ever!

[rgreg]

I was talking to a couple on the Weaver last month who had just arrived via the MSC from Ellesmere Port. They said they hadn't known about having to make prior arrangements with Peel and only arranged for the council to swing the bridge at Ellesmere Port and CRT to open the Weaver Lock. They completed the journey unchallenged! I'm not sure what the insurance company would have said if anything went wrong though.

[frangar]

10 minutes ago, rgreg said:

I was talking to a couple on the Weaver last month who had just arrived via the MSC from Ellesmere Port. They said they hadn't known about having to make prior arrangements with Peel and only arranged for the council to swing the bridge at Ellesmere Port and CRT to open the Weaver Lock. They completed the journey unchallenged! I'm not sure what the insurance company would have said if anything went wrong though.

That would have been amusing if they had met a tug movement I suspect. It's actions like that which risk all pleasure craft being stopped from using it. 

[rgreg]

41 minutes ago, frangar said:

That would have been amusing if they had met a tug movement I suspect. It's actions like that which risk all pleasure craft being stopped from using it. 

Absolutely, and I think it was pure luck that they didn't meet anything as surely that would have triggered an "unidentified vessel" response.

[PhilAtterley]

59 minutes ago, frangar said:

That would have been amusing if they had met a tug movement I suspect. It's actions like that which risk all pleasure craft being stopped from using it. 

Between Weston Marsh and Ellesmere Port is one of the widest sections of the Ship Canal, as can be verified from Google Maps. 

Why do you suppose that meeting a ship and tugs somewhere along there would present any kind of problem, amusing or otherwise ?

 

[frangar]

8 hours ago, PhilAtterley said:

Between Weston Marsh and Ellesmere Port is one of the widest sections of the Ship Canal, as can be verified from Google Maps. 

Why do you suppose that meeting a ship and tugs somewhere along there would present any kind of problem, amusing or otherwise ?

 

Because VTS at Eastham when I transited were quite particular about entry & exit times so all the "Normal" traffic was safely along side. Even then I had to wait for the dredger to finish manovering before I had clearance from VTS to enter. Also the tugs when not towing don't hang about and create a big enough wash to cause the average narrowboat some stress. 

Its not all about looking at a waterway on google you know.....

[PhilAtterley]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

Because VTS at Eastham when I transited were quite particular about entry & exit times so all the "Normal" traffic was safely along side. Even then I had to wait for the dredger to finish manovering before I had clearance from VTS to enter. Also the tugs when not towing don't hang about and create a big enough wash to cause the average narrowboat some stress. 

Its not all about looking at a waterway on google you know.....

You might need to look at Google to get some idea of which parts of the Ship Canal are narrow enough to be advisable to avoid passing ships and tugs on, personally I don't need to, and nor do I need any patronizing remarks from you either. 

I got to know the Ship Canal from the decks of the MSCCo Bridgewater Dept barges in the 1960's, lightening ships that had brought imported maize across the Atlantic and were too deep to get any further up than Ellesmere Port until their draught had been reduced by a couple of feet, or running between Manchester Docks and ICI at Anderton.

I got to know a bit about the Ship Canal tugs as well, . . . they would often pass us while we were loading overside from the maize ships that had to stop at Ellesmere Port for lightening, and the only time they were any sort of problem was if one went by when we had finished loading but before we got the hatch covers and sheets battened down. If the tug's wash splashed over coamings and into the hold we got stopped the cost of the estimated weight of wet maize out of our wages. Now, that did give rise to a bit of stress.

Edited July 15, 2017 by PhilAtterley

[frangar]

10 minutes ago, PhilAtterley said:

You might need to look at Google to get some idea of which parts of the Ship Canal are narrow enough to be advisable to avoid passing ships and tugs on, personally I don't need to, and nor do I need patronizing remarks from you either. 

I got to know the Ship Canal from the decks of the MSCCo Bridgewater Dept barges in the 1960's, lightening ships that had brought imported maize across the Atlantic and were too deep to get any further up than Ellesmere Port until their draught had been reduced by a couple of feet, or running between Manchester Docks and ICI at Anderton.

I got to know a bit about the Ship Canal tugs as well, . . . they would often pass us while we were loading overside from the maize ships that had to stop at Ellesmere Port for lightening, and the only time they were any sort of problem was if one went by when we had finished loading but before we got the hatch covers and sheets battened down. If the tug's wash splashed over coamings and into the hold we got stopped the cost of the estimated weight of wet maize out of our wages. Now, that did give rise to a bit of stress.

Please don't patronise me either....you aren't the only one who knows about how different waterways work you know. 

Whilst it's of course technically possible to pass other vessels I think you find that pleasure craft are allowed under sufferance nowadays and it would only take one incident with someone who didn't have permission to be there to see them totally banned. 

 

[AndrewIC]

11 hours ago, rgreg said:

Absolutely, and I think it was pure luck that they didn't meet anything as surely that would have triggered an "unidentified vessel" response.

Torpedoes at the ready?

[PhilAtterley]

2 hours ago, frangar said:

Please don't patronise me either....you aren't the only one who knows about how different waterways work you know. 

Whilst it's of course technically possible to pass other vessels I think you find that pleasure craft are allowed under sufferance nowadays and it would only take one incident with someone who didn't have permission to be there to see them totally banned. 

 

So, it's "technically possible to pass other vessels" is it, . . . well, who would have thought that ? 

I would guess that the VTS at Eastham probably kept you out of harm's way until everything else was tied-up because you came across on the VHF as being nervous and unsure about the prospect of meeting/passing other traffic. 

All credit to the couple who just got on with things, dropped into the Ship Canal at Ellesmere Port and ran up to Marsh Lock, though, . . . . they would likely have managed alright back in the days when the canal was really busy and there was traffic on the move night and day, from barges towing up to two dumbs, to tugs moving one of the three MSCCo pontoon cranes about,  dredgers at work, and ships from coasters to those as big as the canal would take with a tug on each end.

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by PhilAtterley

[ditchcrawler]

I remember as a kid sitting in the back of an A35 van when my dad did U turn across the central reservation of the M1, I don't think that would be a go idea today

[frangar]

1 hour ago, PhilAtterley said:

So, it's "technically possible to pass other vessels" is it, . . . well, who would have thought that ? 

I would guess that the VTS at Eastham probably kept you out of harm's way until everything else was tied-up because you came across on the VHF as being nervous and unsure about the prospect of meeting/passing other traffic. 

All credit to the couple who just got on with things, dropped into the Ship Canal at Ellesmere Port and ran up to Marsh Lock, though, . . . . they would likely have managed alright back in the days when the canal was really busy and there was traffic on the move night and day, from barges towing up to two dumbs, to tugs moving one of the three MSCCo pontoon cranes about,  dredgers at work, and ships from coasters to those as big as the canal would take with a tug on each end.

 

Your arrogance is quite amusing which is a shame because I'm sure you must say something sometimes which could be informative. 

For your information times for transit were given when you book your passage....the VHF conversations take place to fine tune it on the day but I'm sure being the worlds expert on all commercial waterways you knew that. 

In times past it may have been acceptable to just do something like make a passage without permission but for better or worse that is no longer the case and if we wish to retain the use of the ship canal for recreational craft then we have to comply with the wishes of the present owners of the navigation. This might not be agreeable to either of us but I'm afraid that's how it is.....their toys....their rules..

[chrisRoald]

...Why can't we use such useful sites as this for exchanging info instead if insults?

The big risk of just running the metaphorical red light on the commercial canal is damage insurance. No way would our marine insurance co. cough up if we were involved in a prang when we weren't authorised to be there!

Why should Peel pay costs, which could run into £millions, when the fault may be with a party they knew nothing about.

The required seaworthiness cert. mentioned earlier, checks that we have an anchor, signalling equipment and life support equipment aboard, and know how to use them. MSC Peel require us to have insurance cover of min £3 million.

If we lose control in our small unauthorised craft, risk is that someone else pays...