Nige123

Wide beam envy?

73 posts in this topic

Just now, frangar said:

Once so far.....when time allows we will be back....sadly work gets in the way....it's a nice town to visit and has one of the best sanitary stations on the waterways anywhere else you want to know about?? 

The facts is that most narrowboaters with 57 foot boats simply don't leave their " area " many don't even do the L and L which is a major reason for having such a small boat. I love the trip to Ripon but since buying a whole boat Ive not been able to do it. Its quite amazing how little of the available system many narrowboaters use and they might as well have a much superior, comfier better handling widebeam realy.

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3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

The facts is that most narrowboaters with 57 foot boats simply don't leave their " area " many don't even do the L and L which is a major reason for having such a small boat. I love the trip to Ripon but since buying a whole boat Ive not been able to do it. Its quite amazing how little of the available system many narrowboaters use and they might as well have a much superior, comfier better handling widebeam realy.

As long as they don't take widebeams off a marina mooring that's fine by me....the one I met yesterday on the pound above Weston Lock on the lower T & M was quite lucky he met me and another narrowboat rather than another widebeam or im guessing they would both still be there wedged on the shallows. Just because a waterway has broad locks or indeed once carried wide boats doesn't mean it's now suitable for them. 

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2 minutes ago, frangar said:

As long as they don't take widebeams off a marina mooring that's fine by me....the one I met yesterday on the pound above Weston Lock on the lower T & M was quite lucky he met me and another narrowboat rather than another widebeam or im guessing they would both still be there wedged on the shallows. Just because a waterway has broad locks or indeed once carried wide boats doesn't mean it's now suitable for them. 

The T and M as the GU and such as the K and A are all too small for widebeams though I admit taking mine once on the bit you just mentioned :huh: What always makes me giggle is on this forum narrowboaters simply have no idea just how superior a boat in every way a widebeam is. Used on properly gauged parts of the system such as the Trent below Nottingham and the A and C etc widebeams are great. Funny thing is people who have never even been on one seem to think they can pass comment onto how they handle etc :rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

The T and M as the GU and such as the K and A are all too small for widebeams though I admit taking mine once on the bit you just mentioned :huh: What always makes me giggle is on this forum narrowboaters simply have no idea just how superior a boat in every way a widebeam is. Used on properly gauged parts of the system such as the Trent below Nottingham and the A and C etc widebeams are great. Funny thing is people who have never even been on one seem to think they can pass comment onto how they handle etc :rolleyes:

I suspect most narrow boaters couldn't give a sh1te because our interest in boating comes from growing up on predominantly narrow canals.

My boat is moored on the edge of wide beam territory currently and I am heading further into it this weekend. I am not bothered. My crafty fox will skirt round any lumbering behemoths in its path and plough straight through any plastic boats trying to turn within their own length in mid-channel.

JP

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Well lots of info to take on board....(sorry) 

I have just spent 3 days on my Narrow boat & I am now on my Fat wide ass boat with lots of room....

I can stretch my feet out without touching both walls at the same time.....Heaven....

I do use the Thames a lot & the shallow draft & wide beam (12ft) with a flat ass end makes for little wake, even at full throttle.

It has more room then a dutch barge of 60ft & due to the fact it's oblong you can use all the space even above the engine (I can seat 8).

It's good on fuel & not far off my narrow boat  (45hp narrow 65hp fat boat) & I have 1000 watts of solar on 1/4 of the roof (lots of space).

I do go slow on small rivers & canals as seeing a fat ass boat coming at you round a bend can be scary for some old boys (& girls).

I do have to pay more for fee's etc etc but ha ho.

& my last point is this..... No one else in the world has come up with such a stupid idea for a boat as a 72ft X 6'8" wide floating bowling alley. The rest of the world thinks we are as mad as, well "English men" I would like to see all canals dug out & be fitted with 14ft wide locks. Come on you know it makes sense. 

1 hour ago, frangar said:

As long as they don't take widebeams off a marina mooring that's fine by me....the one I met yesterday on the pound above Weston Lock on the lower T & M was quite lucky he met me and another narrowboat rather than another widebeam or im guessing they would both still be there wedged on the shallows. Just because a waterway has broad locks or indeed once carried wide boats doesn't mean it's now suitable for them. 

that's why we pay more to use them. if a canal is unfit for use take that up with CRT who the wide beam owner pays MORE MONEY TO.

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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

The T and M as the GU and such as the K and A are all too small for widebeams though I admit taking mine once on the bit you just mentioned :huh: What always makes me giggle is on this forum narrowboaters simply have no idea just how superior a boat in every way a widebeam is. Used on properly gauged parts of the system such as the Trent below Nottingham and the A and C etc widebeams are great. Funny thing is people who have never even been on one seem to think they can pass comment onto how they handle etc :rolleyes:

You are in fact very right..... I have both & my wide butt boat is much better to take out single handed then my 56ft skinny... She just slips along, turns easy, stops from flat out to stop in 30ft on the Thames! (Big engine big prop) Not so good in fast flowing waters due to square back end. I run the lower K&A all the time.

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1 hour ago, Paringa said:

Nobody has mentioned the rowers...

I did...... They must all die.... lets say I came up with a boating idea like this.

8 grown men will sit in a boat just as wide as our ar*e & we will sit backwards so we can't see.

We will ignore the speed limit that all other boats have to abide by & our case boats will also be exempt from the speed limit.

All other boats will have to get the F*** out of our way when ever we are on the water, even at night as we will not have lights....

We will block large parts of the river for our race tracks & then use the tiny part that other boats have to use also & we may just sit across this lane sideways drinking water.

So what do you think? good idea St John lets do it......................???

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This trip has been a bit of hard work the river is right down above wakefield still its the same for both wide and narrow boats.

I have met plenty of boats coming the other way and not had any problems but this is the beauty of canals made for big boats, I have over the last week seen some of the ugliest narrowboats I have ever seen a lot of them in very poor condition but on the whole most widebeams have been in good condition and some like mine designed to look good [others have been a bit boxy] Its fortunate that beauty is in the eye of the beholder otherwise all boats would look the same and what a boring world that would be

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7 hours ago, Nige123 said:

 

that's why we pay more to use them. if a canal is unfit for use take that up with CRT who the wide beam owner pays MORE MONEY TO.

At present I think you will find that the money you pay to CRT for your licence is the same for a given length regardless of beam.....that may well change..quite rightly...in the licence review. 

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9 hours ago, Nige123 said:

I did...... They must all die.... lets say I came up with a boating idea like this.

8 grown men will sit in a boat just as wide as our ar*e & we will sit backwards so we can't see.

We will ignore the speed limit that all other boats have to abide by & our case boats will also be exempt from the speed limit.

All other boats will have to get the F*** out of our way when ever we are on the water, even at night as we will not have lights....

We will block large parts of the river for our race tracks & then use the tiny part that other boats have to use also & we may just sit across this lane sideways drinking water.

So what do you think? good idea St John lets do it......................???

Don't forget turning in front of oncoming boats without looking and never, ever, say thanks after you have dodged all over the river to avoid the wild meanderings...Bless em

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3 hours ago, frangar said:

At present I think you will find that the money you pay to CRT for your licence is the same for a given length regardless of beam.....that may well change..quite rightly...in the licence review. 

You may discover that your license goes up as well, and some widebeams goes down wouldnt that be a shocker!! The simple answer is on a mooring no matter how wide we both fill the bank up, change for changes sake never works out well, and will nearly always cost more for everybody

2 minutes ago, Bettie Boo said:

 

Or canoeists

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15 hours ago, frangar said:

Whereas most widebeams rarely leave the mooring (thankfully).....

Nearly all the narrowboaters I talk to in my travels have or are in the process of travelling around the system....oh and on this trip I left Debdale....going to sharpness via Burton...Stoke...middlewich...audlem...stourport...sharpness....then back to Debdale via Tewksbury...evesham....Stratford..Braunston. 

 

 

 

I would lay odds that most narrow boats rarely travel more than ten miles from their mooring.

Keith

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15 hours ago, frangar said:

As long as they don't take widebeams off a marina mooring that's fine by me....the one I met yesterday on the pound above Weston Lock on the lower T & M was quite lucky he met me and another narrowboat rather than another widebeam or im guessing they would both still be there wedged on the shallows. Just because a waterway has broad locks or indeed once carried wide boats doesn't mean it's now suitable for them. 

And you have just made the strongest case for the encouragement of more wide beam boats and boats of greater draft come to that.

Canals get shallower and narrower due to the lack of craft of the appropriate dimensions using them. Narrow boats which are narrower and shallower drafted than original working craft have led to the dire lack of maintenance that we've seen since the end of commercial carrying. Broad canals that only see modern narrow boats end up with a narrow and shallow channel. 

If boats get smaller and smaller because it's easier to get around, so too will canals.

Keith

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15 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

The T and M as the GU and such as the K and A are all too small for widebeams though I admit taking mine once on the bit you just mentioned :huh: What always makes me giggle is on this forum narrowboaters simply have no idea just how superior a boat in every way a widebeam is. Used on properly gauged parts of the system such as the Trent below Nottingham and the A and C etc widebeams are great. Funny thing is people who have never even been on one seem to think they can pass comment onto how they handle etc :rolleyes:

We've been here before. I don't know why you think the K&A in particular is too small for wide beams, I've never experienced any difficulties on this navigation due to Petra's size and I've been travelling up here for twelve years now. As I've said before, saying that a wide canal is too small for the boats it was designed for is the equivalent of saying a narrow canal is too small for a full length narrow boat. 

Is the GU too small for a breasted pair of working boats? I've done many a mile doing that too.

Keith

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14 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

And you have just made the strongest case for the encouragement of more wide beam boats and boats of greater draft come to that.

Canals get shallower and narrower due to the lack of craft of the appropriate dimensions using them. Narrow boats which are narrower and shallower drafted than original working craft have led to the dire lack of maintenance that we've seen since the end of commercial carrying. Broad canals that only see modern narrow boats end up with a narrow and shallow channel. 

If boats get smaller and smaller because it's easier to get around, so too will canals.

Keith

Am fond of those narrow shallow channels,another few Years without Dredging and Narrowboats may become Self Steering on some sections:)

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1 minute ago, Steilsteven said:

We've been here before. I don't know why you think the K&A in particular is too small for wide beams, I've never experienced any difficulties on this navigation due to Petra's size and I've been travelling up here for twelve years now. As I've said before, saying that a wide canal is too small for the boats it was designed for is the equivalent of saying a narrow canal is too small for a full length narrow boat. 

Is the GU too small for a breasted pair of working boats? I've done many a mile doing that too.

Keith

Hi Keith

I have done the K and A many times and against such as the A and C it is miniscule. Granted it is classed as a wide canal but don't you find it rather a challenge when you meet a boat your size coming the other way on there? Its all down to interpretation but if I ever decide to go wide again I will ensure its oop ont Trent, ouse Rivers aire and calder and the bigger northern canals that are better suited to them. You will note by my post I am far from anti widebeams I luv em but to be honest some of the 12 foot by 70 etc are plonked in the strangest of places.

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6 hours ago, frangar said:

At present I think you will find that the money you pay to CRT for your licence is the same for a given length regardless of beam.....that may well change..quite rightly...in the licence review. 

I think narrow boat owners should pay more if anyone should, they are the ones who habitually only use one gate on broad locks resulting in premature gate replacement.

Keith

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4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Hi Keith

I have done the K and A many times and against such as the A and C it is miniscule. Granted it is classed as a wide canal but don't you find it rather a challenge when you meet a boat your size coming the other way on there? Its all down to interpretation but if I ever decide to go wide again I will ensure its oop ont Trent, ouse Rivers aire and calder and the bigger northern canals that are better suited to them. You will note by my post I am far from anti widebeams I luv em but to be honest some of the 12 foot by 70 etc are plonked in the strangest of places.

Well I know we're on the same side pretty much and yes of course there are bigger waterways where there's loads more space, I spend half my time on the Thames, but no I can say hand on heart that I've never had a problem meeting a boat of similar size coming the other way. I have met modern narrow boats on the Oxford when steering a large Northwich which have got into a panic at the sight of it's big stem post coming at them though.

If boating was always easy I think I'd give it up out of boredom. Maybe not.

Keith 

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6 hours ago, Steilsteven said:

And you have just made the strongest case for the encouragement of more wide beam boats and boats of greater draft come to that.

Canals get shallower and narrower due to the lack of craft of the appropriate dimensions using them. Narrow boats which are narrower and shallower drafted than original working craft have led to the dire lack of maintenance that we've seen since the end of commercial carrying. Broad canals that only see modern narrow boats end up with a narrow and shallow channel. 

If boats get smaller and smaller because it's easier to get around, so too will canals.

Keith

I've got a deep draughted boat thanks....and whilst I take your point that using a bigger boat might have kept the channel clear it's a fact that until recently no widebeam traffic used what may have once been a wide waterway. 

Unless theres a large injection of cash the return of these waterways to enable wide traffic to navigate safely just won't happen. As well as dredging there needs to be significant clearance of trees and other growth.  The best that can expected is that enough deep narrowboats keep travelling to at least keep the depth.

Unless of course widebeam owners decide that they will fund the works needed......

Edited by frangar
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20 hours ago, frangar said:

I've got a deep draughted boat thanks....and whilst I take your point that using a bigger boat might have kept the channel clear it's a fact that until recently no widebeam traffic used what may have once been a wide waterway. 

Unless theres a large injection of cash the return of these waterways to enable wide traffic to navigate safely just won't happen. As well as dredging there needs to be significant clearance of trees and other growth.  The best that can expected is that enough deep narrowboats keep travelling to at least keep the depth.

Unless of course widebeam owners decide that they will fund the works needed......

Strange attitude. It's not a case of bigger boats keeping the channel clear ( a myth imho ), if boats get smaller the need to maintain the canal properly diminishes, this has already been shown to be true. You might well have what you consider to be a deep draughted boat but loaded working boats drew a great deal more and over their full length when loaded. If the canals were still maintained to their original standard you would have water under your base plate rather than just mud and boating would be a great deal more pleasurable. Indeed it will take a lot of money to return the canals to that condition but that is only because of past neglect and once they are restored it will cost no more to keep them in that condition than it does to keep them as they are now. This would be to the benefit of all boaters not just wide beam and/or deep draughted boat owners. 

Also, if deep narrow boats are the only ones ''maintaining the depth'' they are effectively converting a broad canal to a narrow one which could be construed as damage, therefore their owners should have to pay for reinstating the wide channel.

Keith 

Keith

Edited by Steilsteven
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On 2017-7-19 at 16:10, Steilsteven said:

Strange attitude. It's not a case of bigger boats keeping the channel clear ( a myth imho ), if boats get smaller the need to maintain the canal properly diminishes, this has already been shown to be true. You might well have what you consider to be a deep draughted boat but loaded working boats drew a great deal more and over their full length when loaded. If the canals were still maintained to their original standard you would have water under your base plate rather than just mud and boating would be a great deal more pleasurable. Indeed it will take a lot of money to return the canals to that condition but that is only because of past neglect and once they are restored it will cost no more to keep them in that condition than it does to keep them as they are now. This would be to the benefit of all boaters not just wide beam and/or deep draughted boat owners. 

Also, if deep narrow boats are the only ones ''maintaining the depth'' they are effectively converting a broad canal to a narrow one which could be construed as damage, therefore their owners should have to pay for reinstating the wide channel.

Keith 

Keith

I like this reply.

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