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simple (??) inverter question


wobbly ollie

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We have a 1000w inverter. From my basic knowledge of boat electrics i understand this converts my battery 12v DC power into 240v AC to my 4 x 3 pin sockets. Away from the marina, moored up on the towpath and no engine running we have the inverter switched on. We have radio on and maybe a phone charger plugged in and but no internal lights on we do however have the fridge running. So why then when we run a tap and the water pump kicks in does a loud constant bleep eminate from the inverter? Ive got a feeling answers might involve me heading off to Screwfix for a multimeter....(we do have a digital battery monitor fitted if that helps?)

Diagnosis options gladly recieved...

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Probably because the battery voltage is falling too low. This in turn is probably caused by inadequately charged batteries. Or they are plain knackered. Or the cables feeding the inverter are woefully undersized.

Do you have a multimeter? Measure the voltage on the 12v input terminals of the inverter while it is making the beeping noise, and report back.

 

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The bleep will be a low battery warning I believe. The reason it happens with tap running is the water pump is a substantial consumer of lectric and is reducing the battery voltage. Your problems are something like Knackered batteries, poor charging, not enough battery capacity or similar.

Edited to add beaten to it by eight seconds by Mike.

Edited by mrsmelly
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7 minutes ago, wobbly ollie said:

Ive got a feeling answers might involve me heading off to Screwfix for a multimeter

I've got a feeling that the answer may involve you heading off to the 'battery megastore' and spending a little more than the cost of a multimeter (but you should have one of those as well !)

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One aspect of this not covered yet is how long this fault has existed.

Have you just installed the inverter and discovered the problem? Or has it been working fine for years and only just cropped up?

Or have you only had the boat a few weeks and it was fine until now?

What is your battery charging regime?

 

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

One aspect of this not covered yet is how long this fault has existed.

Have you just installed the inverter and discovered the problem? Or has it been working fine for years and only just cropped up?

Or have you only had the boat a few weeks and it was fine until now?

What is your battery charging regime?

 

Noooooooooooooooooooo pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese noooooooooooooooooooooooooo not the BATTERY charging regime again nnoooooooooooooooooooooooo :lol:

  • Greenie 1
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18 minutes ago, philjw said:

So sounds like the boat usually has a shore line. But does it also have a charger connected when tied up at its home mooring?

 

If it doesn't have one, then the batteries are probably undercharged and knackered.

If it does have one, then the batteries are probably only knackered.

 

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5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Probably because the battery voltage is falling too low. This in turn is probably caused by inadequately charged batteries. Or they are plain knackered. Or the cables feeding the inverter are woefully undersized.

Do you have a multimeter? Measure the voltage on the 12v input terminals of the inverter while it is making the beeping noise, and report back.

 

The bit in red doesn't sound like it is going to be a primary cause of the fault described, unless the inverter and the water pump are sharing part of the 12 volt wiring, which would not be normal.

(It is likely an inverter will have its own dedicated cabling from the battery bank).

So I would conclude that the batteries are in a sufficiently poor state that when the water pump kicks in it is taking the battery bank voltage below the point at which the low voltage warning on the inverter sounds.

If we are right on that point, the batteries must be in a fairly shocking state, as a water pump typically only draws a few amps, and shouldn't drag down the voltage of a battery bank that is in half reasonable condition.

If you do buy that multimeter measure voltage across batteries themselves with....

1) Nothing running

2) Inverter running

3) Pump running

4) Both running

and report back, (although borrowing a meter may be a better idea, in order to hang on to more money to spend on batteries, because you are probably going to need some!....)

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Okay folks. Started with most straight  forward step first. Removed both leisure  batteries  (yes i only  have 2...) off down to Halfords and woke  up  spotty  youth who after a couple internal phone calls appeared with battery tester (and puzzled expression). The result was that neither were up to holding a charge. We've only had the boat 7 months so no idea how long these batteries had been in ...?  So next stop Euro Parts to purchase replacements. Pretty sure this will fix things so thanks again for your input and suggestions.  

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51 minutes ago, wobbly ollie said:

Okay folks. Started with most straight  forward step first. Removed both leisure  batteries  (yes i only  have 2...) off down to Halfords and woke  up  spotty  youth who after a couple internal phone calls appeared with battery tester (and puzzled expression). The result was that neither were up to holding a charge. We've only had the boat 7 months so no idea how long these batteries had been in ...?  So next stop Euro Parts to purchase replacements. Pretty sure this will fix things so thanks again for your input and suggestions.  

See Post #4

But - irrespective of that I very much doubt that anyone at Halfords had either the knowledge, time, or the equipment available to test your 'leisure batteries' properly.

They may have stuck a heavy resistance coil (starter battery tester) across the top, but that tells you nowt.

 

Yes - new batteries will fix things for a day or two, but unless you undertake an electrical audit for both output and input, and correct any shortcomings you will be making the same journey in very short order.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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On 10/07/2017 at 10:40, wobbly ollie said:

Okay folks. Started with most straight  forward step first. Removed both leisure  batteries  (yes i only  have 2...) off down to Halfords and woke  up  spotty  youth who after a couple internal phone calls appeared with battery tester (and puzzled expression). The result was that neither were up to holding a charge. We've only had the boat 7 months so no idea how long these batteries had been in ...?  So next stop Euro Parts to purchase replacements. Pretty sure this will fix things so thanks again for your input and suggestions.  

 

Sadly battery testers like you describe will tell you nothing other than that you need new batteries. Especially in the hands of someone looking puzzled about what they do.

The real surprise is Halfords didn't happen to have just the batteries you need. 

The chances are new batteries ARE needed, but the bigger question you need to address is "why?". If you ignore this then you might well be buying more in another few months.

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And I very much suspect Europarts have enough fast moving stock in store of suitable batteries - they are not car batteries. The longer any battery has been sitting around the more sulphated it will be unless it was dry charged and filled when you bought it - I very much doubt that is now done in such places.

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6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

And I very much suspect Europarts have enough fast moving stock in store of suitable batteries - they are not car batteries. The longer any battery has been sitting around the more sulphated it will be unless it was dry charged and filled when you bought it - I very much doubt that is now done in such places.

The place to go (or at least one place) is the Battery Megastore - you will have difficulty finding cheaper and they deliver next day.

I have purchase 3 from them so far this year (Car, Digger and Tractor batteries) they are a 'cracking company'.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The place to go (or at least one place) is the Battery Megastore - you will have difficulty finding cheaper and they deliver next day.

I have purchase 3 from them so far this year (Car, Digger and Tractor batteries) they are a 'cracking company'.

Just noticed I missed out DO NOT as in do not have

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22 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Sadly battery testers like you describe will tell you nothing other than that you need new batteries. Especially in the hands of someone looking puzzled about what they do.

The real surprise is Halfords didn't happen to have just the batteries you need. 

The chances are new batteries ARE needed, but the bigger question you need to address is "why?". If you ignore this then you might well be buying more in another few months.

But he says he is marina based and mostly on shore power, with a charger. The boat is quite new to them and this is the first time they've been out(?). So most likely it was the previous owners that killed the batteries. Or maybe they are just very old.

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On 10/07/2017 at 12:08, nicknorman said:

But he says he is marina based and mostly on shore power, with a charger. The boat is quite new to them and this is the first time they've been out(?). So most likely it was the previous owners that killed the batteries. Or maybe they are just very old.

Yes but he rather carefully avoided saying the shoreline charger was hooked up all the time the boat is in the marina. Just stated he had a charger in a cupboard and a shoreline IIRC.

 

 

Speeeling edit...

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

But he says he is marina based and mostly on shore power, with a charger. The boat is quite new to them and this is the first time they've been out(?). So most likely it was the previous owners that killed the batteries. Or maybe they are just very old.

Or, left the marina with fully charged batteries (of whatever capacity they have), didn't know about the need to recharge them & has gradually depleted them until they 'set off' the inverter 'bleeper'.

Now discharged and have 'stood' in that state for some days - now sulphated up.

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On 08/07/2017 at 11:58, wobbly ollie said:

thanks as always for your suggestions/comments.....will read through again when ive got bit more time and answer accordingly. we do have a land hook up in the marina and a onboard battery charger.

But is the charger switched on and actually charging?

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7 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

But is the charger switched on and actually charging?

This was my question at post #8.  

Pretty sure like others have said above the batteries have had it and some change of behaviour will be needed to prevent the same thing happening to the replacements.

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