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Peppers the widebeam


Peppers

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As we're just starting the journey of fitting out our new widebeam sailaway, we wanted to start a blog so we can hopefully get some sage advice along the way and we can look back and have a laugh at our cock ups in a few months time...

General purchase details:

  • Orchard Marine eurocruiser stern 60 x 12
  • Canalline 70 engine - isuzu 4 cylinder 65 with pro hydraulic gearbox and twin alternators
  • Venus 95 kgf bow thruster
  • 150 gallon water tank
  • 2 bedroom reverse layout 

We're starting with just the sprayfoam insulation and have just bought a rather suspicious looking knife haul to begin the insulation shaving process on Sunday.

We're very very very much learning as we go...

:captain:

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Hi Peppers and welcome along. Sounds an interesting project and I do like a project. London eh! Good luck with that.

i suspect you've done your reasearch? And covered You Tube but if not and depending how bad/well the spray foam was done you may want to invest in a multi tool rather than the traditional bread knife.

good info by Jono here 


Also Narrowboat Zero Gravity also on You Tube cover it best I can remember.
good luck with it I'll be following with interest
Ade
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8 hours ago, Peppers said:

As we're just starting the journey of fitting out our new widebeam sailaway, we wanted to start a blog so we can hopefully get some sage advice along the way and we can look back and have a laugh at our cock ups in a few months time...

General purchase details:

  • Orchard Marine eurocruiser stern 60 x 12
  • Canalline 70 engine - isuzu 4 cylinder 65 with pro hydraulic gearbox and twin alternators
  • Venus 95 kgf bow thruster
  • 150 gallon water tank
  • 2 bedroom reverse layout 

We're starting with just the sprayfoam insulation and have just bought a rather suspicious looking knife haul to begin the insulation shaving process on Sunday.

We're very very very much learning as we go...

:captain:

Exellent job but in my opinion and of course before we get any wet nappies from anyone it obviously is my opinion or I wouldnt be typing it I would most certainly have a much bigger water tank than that on a boat that size its so easy to do. My 10ft 6in widebeam had a 250 gallon tank and plenty of space left for the also fitted but totaly unecessary bowthruster. Just saying like but as many peeps know a large water tank can often be a beneficial thing to have.

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Hammer a nail into a short piece of wood, so that the nail protrudes to the specified depth of the sprayfoam, typically 2 inches/50mm.

Then at random  points press the nail into the sprayfoam,  it should sink in and allow the wood to touch the sprayfoam.

If it doesn't,  then the sprayfoam is thinner than it should be and needs topping up.  Fill the small nail holes with an aerosol of fire-retardant foam.

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Great sprayfoam help already! Thanks all.

We're going to the boat tomorrow to start a 4 day stint of sprayfoam culling. An electric knife sounds like a good idea...

9 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Exellent job but in my opinion and of course before we get any wet nappies from anyone it obviously is my opinion or I wouldnt be typing it I would most certainly have a much bigger water tank than that on a boat that size its so easy to do. My 10ft 6in widebeam had a 250 gallon tank and plenty of space left for the also fitted but totaly unecessary bowthruster. Just saying like but as many peeps know a large water tank can often be a beneficial thing to have.

And yes! We definitely want a bigger water tank. How have you managed to get a bigger one in the bow - we haven't been able to work it out yet. We did see a boat where they had just given up the bow to extra plastic bag tanks and then shoved a bit of tarp over it - but that doesn't really seem like a solution to me. Is it a case of getting a bespoke one built?

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44 minutes ago, Peppers said:

Great sprayfoam help already! Thanks all.

We're going to the boat tomorrow to start a 4 day stint of sprayfoam culling. An electric knife sounds like a good idea...

And yes! We definitely want a bigger water tank. How have you managed to get a bigger one in the bow - we haven't been able to work it out yet. We did see a boat where they had just given up the bow to extra plastic bag tanks and then shoved a bit of tarp over it - but that doesn't really seem like a solution to me. Is it a case of getting a bespoke one built?

Hi

Ours was  a stainless steel tank made for the boat. You wont want to hear this but if it were me I would bin the bowthruster and use the money on something you will use/need and have an integral tank or if must have a nice big tank made.

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On 8 July 2017 at 19:00, mrsmelly said:

Hi

Ours was  a stainless steel tank made for the boat. You wont want to hear this but if it were me I would bin the bowthruster and use the money on something you will use/need and have an integral tank or if must have a nice big tank made.

We've bought ours off the shelf as it were so it already has the 150 tank and the bowthruster in it. We might actually add two external water tanks to the bow. This might sound strange, but this is a part of our idea to make the boat look slightly less new and less attention-grabbing. I know this seems like the completely wrong thing to do with a nice new boat, but it seems to suggest a dual purpose of fulfilling our water needs and as a few people have suggested to us recently "s**tting the boat up a bit". Although then all the water will be at the front - is this a problem for weight distribution?

 

We've pretty much finished the sprayfoam removal now! It took 3 days and in the end we employed a hammer and a sander to best effect! If I ever fit out another boat I'll certainly not let them sprayfoam it! We must have 16 massive bin bags of wasted material. 

Tomorrow we'll start adding wooden battens to the steel uprights and the bulkheads. I'm hoping to grow some new hands overnight as that insulation is pretty unforgiving.  

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8 hours ago, Peppers said:

We've bought ours off the shelf as it were so it already has the 150 tank and the bowthruster in it. We might actually add two external water tanks to the bow. This might sound strange, but this is a part of our idea to make the boat look slightly less new and less attention-grabbing. I know this seems like the completely wrong thing to do with a nice new boat, but it seems to suggest a dual purpose of fulfilling our water needs and as a few people have suggested to us recently "s**tting the boat up a bit". Although then all the water will be at the front - is this a problem for weight distribution?

 

We've pretty much finished the sprayfoam removal now! It took 3 days and in the end we employed a hammer and a sander to best effect! If I ever fit out another boat I'll certainly not let them sprayfoam it! We must have 16 massive bin bags of wasted material. 

Tomorrow we'll start adding wooden battens to the steel uprights and the bulkheads. I'm hoping to grow some new hands overnight as that insulation is pretty unforgiving.  

Something very wrong here. Hammer & sander ???? No way. And the wooden battens should have gone on before the sprayfoam not after.

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28 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Something very wrong here. Hammer & sander ???? No way. And the wooden battens should have gone on before the sprayfoam not after.

Yes, you should only need to remove surplus insulation down to the battens.

Usually there isn't enough sprayfoam in many places,  rather than to much.

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Hi Peppers, I wish lots of success with this BIG job, it will be really nice do build the boat (inside) the way you want it, and not having to live and adapt to someone else's work.

I may be a bit too late with this warning as the thing is surely installed already, but if I were you, I would replace your VENUS B.T. for a VETUS one, as these are much more common in case you need it repaired at some stage ;).

 

Peter.

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On 12 July 2017 at 08:54, system 4-50 said:

Something very wrong here. Hammer & sander ???? No way. And the wooden battens should have gone on before the sprayfoam not after.

 

On 12 July 2017 at 09:24, cuthound said:

Yes, you should only need to remove surplus insulation down to the battens.

Usually there isn't enough sprayfoam in many places,  rather than to much.

Thanks for your concern but you would not believe the amount of surplus that we had to get it down to the battens, hence why we used knives, hammers and and yes even a sander in some places. No care had been taken in applying the sprayfoam and we had far far far too much rather than not enough. On the ceiling in some places it was bulging nearly half a foot away from the battens. There are also a few holes in places which we'll now fill in with fire retardant sprayfoam, but in general we had to cut off absolutely enormous bubbles and bulges - as did the very helpful Jono in the youtube video offered above. No wooden battens had been placed below the gunwale so we need to put them on now, and will be putting sheet insulation between the steel and the wood (also as suggested in the above mentioned youtube video). 

On 12 July 2017 at 13:49, bargemast said:

I may be a bit too late with this warning as the thing is surely installed already, but if I were you, I would replace your VENUS B.T. for a VETUS one, as these are much more common in case you need it repaired at some stage ;).

And ahh yes...autocorrect strikes again. Vetus it is! 

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We're starting to think about the next stage - which we think is our first fix electrics. We're making plans for the 8000th time about exactly where each plug point should go and exactly what we need power for - so here is our electrical usage wishlist:

  • General plug points for: phone charging, laptop charging, iPad charging, musical equipment charging, power tool charging 
  • Kitchen: Washing machine (potentially washer dryer), fridge with icebox, toasty maker thing (other half is obsessed by them), hoover (if I must)
  • Office: Printer
  • Throughout: Speakers
  • LEDs in the ceiling 
  • Outside: Light
  • Other: Macerator, Pumps

We are currently scouring this forum and other sites for advice on which solar panels, solar charger, batteries and inverter we should get. We want to future proof as much as possible - I'd rather go much bigger than we might initially need, just in case. Also as we both work primarily from home laptop charging during the day might be quite heavy duty.

Edited by Peppers
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On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 23:53, Peppers said:

As we're just starting the journey of fitting out our new widebeam sailaway

Presumably the builder gave you a satisfactory statement regarding the claimed 'Zero-Rated for VAT'. Would you be prepared to share their 'statement', or did you decide that the VAT was irrelevant and you just went ahead away a that was 'the boat' for you.

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On ‎13‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 22:37, Peppers said:

We're starting to think about the next stage - which we think is our first fix electrics. We're making plans for the 8000th time about exactly where each plug point should go and exactly what we need power for - so here is our electrical usage wishlist:

  • General plug points for: phone charging, laptop charging, iPad charging, musical equipment charging, power tool charging 
  • Kitchen: Washing machine (potentially washer dryer), fridge with icebox, toasty maker thing (other half is obsessed by them), hoover (if I must)
  • Office: Printer
  • Throughout: Speakers
  • LEDs in the ceiling 
  • Outside: Light
  • Other: Macerator, Pumps

We are currently scouring this forum and other sites for advice on which solar panels, solar charger, batteries and inverter we should get. We want to future proof as much as possible - I'd rather go much bigger than we might initially need, just in case. Also as we both work primarily from home laptop charging during the day might be quite heavy duty.

Put plenty of sockets in as you may want to move stuff about. We have 26 mains sockets on our boat in various places so never stuck for need of one. Fitting them after build is way way harder.

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On 7/12/2017 at 08:54, system 4-50 said:

Something very wrong here. Hammer & sander ???? No way. And the wooden battens should have gone on before the sprayfoam not after.

A multitool is prob the best method to remove excess spray foam, although I used a bread knife and orbital sander (attach to the vac!) to flatten some excess when I needed to flatten my ceiling down when I was adding additional rockwool on top.

Edited by Robbo
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Presumably the builder gave you a satisfactory statement regarding the claimed 'Zero-Rated for VAT'. Would you be prepared to share their 'statement', or did you decide that the VAT was irrelevant and you just went ahead away a that was 'the boat' for you.

Ah - yes - we each signed something to say that it's my responsibility that I liveaboard and theirs if its a qualifying ship query. And on my final invoice it states that the vessel is in compliance of HMRC rules, therefore placing the liability with them for stating this. I was satisfied at least.

I just realised as this is my build blog, I should probably upload a picture! It's not a good one, but hints towards the messy boring bit that we're currently at...

IMG_0055.JPG

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Thanks for getting back to us.

Good luck with the build.

Thanks Alan - It was very remiss of me to forget to update the other thread, so thank you for prompting me to do so.

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Already a great read, thanks for blogging the build!

If spray foam insulation can be done so carelessly by the boat builder, how easy is it to do the job yourself, I wonder. Or is it better (somehow) to just spend days repairing their work?

Also Peppers: I'm in London most days, if that's where the boat is, would gladly come by and give you a hand for an afternoon. In all seriousness! 

Edited by Folly
Edited for clarity and section guidelines.
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Peppers im in a similar situation to you ie widebeam being built but when my sprayfoam goes on as also boat could be built by collingwood i will be tgeir for the spray foam install to be a pain in the ass if they do it wrong..... NZG's youtube video showed they had very good spray foam compared to jono..   hopefully me being their may make tgem a bit more carefull.....im getting a sailaway lined plus an additional budget of 18k so want to see whats behind those pannels!!!!!! 

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11 hours ago, Folly said:

Already a great read, thanks for blogging the build!

If spray foam insulation can be done so carelessly by the boat builder, how easy is it to do the job yourself, I wonder. Or is it better (somehow) to just spend days repairing their work?

Also Peppers: I'm in London most days, if that's where the boat is, would gladly come by and give you a hand for an afternoon. In all seriousness! 

Firstly, that's super super kind - thanks Folly! We'll be a bit north of London for a while, as we're going to put the boat on hardstanding to try and get a decent chunk of work done in the next couple of months so we can be in the best position possible for CCing as we head into winter - but if you're interested to look (or hold up a wall for example) and happen to be ever in the Milton Keynes-ish area then great!

As for sprayfoam, I would definitely have rather have paid someone properly to do it, I wouldn't have liked to do it myself and imagine it's actually more cost effective to get someone with the proper equipment to just do it in one go - but alternatively...

3 hours ago, Matt&Jo said:

Peppers im in a similar situation to you ie widebeam being built but when my sprayfoam goes on as also boat could be built by collingwood i will be tgeir for the spray foam install to be a pain in the ass if they do it wrong..... NZG's youtube video showed they had very good spray foam compared to jono..   hopefully me being their may make tgem a bit more carefull.....im getting a sailaway lined plus an additional budget of 18k so want to see whats behind those pannels!!!!!! 

...as Jono said he wishes he'd been there to oversee and I would feel the same. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

The boat is now on hardstanding - and my partner has been doing well fitting locks on the boat which has take SUCH a surprisingly long time. We're now just about to sort some final bits before doing the first fix electrics (which we're having an electrician come and do). I'm trying to write a shopping list now for this and realising how little I know all over again! I have so many questions to ask that I'm currently scouring the thread for answers...oh dear - such a long way to go!

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  • 3 months later...
On 11/08/2017 at 21:36, Peppers said:

The boat is now on hardstanding - and my partner has been doing well fitting locks on the boat which has take SUCH a surprisingly long time. We're now just about to sort some final bits before doing the first fix electrics (which we're having an electrician come and do). I'm trying to write a shopping list now for this and realising how little I know all over again! I have so many questions to ask that I'm currently scouring the thread for answers...oh dear - such a long way to go!

Any progress on the fit out?  I am going to start one after Christmas so would be interested in your progress.

Phil

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