I'm gonna be sinking soon.

[rusty69]

Over the last couple of days I have been inspired to repaint the engine room, so have been scraping and wire brushing.

To give some background, Mr Rusty is a 70 foot Les Allen trad style narrowboat, believed to have been built around 1983. My self and Mrs Rusty have lived aboard since 1999,and applied blacking every two years.

The last out of water survey in 2006 suggested the counter floor was measured to be 6mm, reducing to 5.6mm at aft chines(original 6mm plate). Now, we were booked in for a survey for 2018, until today that is.

After scraping one part, I left to go and do another bit. On return I noticed the counter floor was damp(see poor picture).Now panic set in,and thinking we were sinking I rang the yard who has us booked in for next year,who is now able to accommodate us a bit sooner (early Aug). The problem is,since this morning (warm day), the damp patch has not reappeared. Now If I hadn't taken the photo I could believe it was never there at all.

There is no obvious leak from above, or any weld or any nearby plumbing or spillage.Mrs Rusty suggested one of the cats popped in when I wasn't looking, but I don't think so.

Anyway. The question is,worse case scenario, if it needs overplating, is it worthwhile getting epoxy coating done at the same time, approx cost, and what coating to apply over the top if any.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[RLWP]

Have you got a cat or dog?

MORE: Yes, I see that you have. About the right quantity for a cat too

Richard

(it's a map of Australia)

Edited July 7, 2017 by RLWP

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Have you got a cat or dog?

MORE: Yes, I see that you have. About the right quantity for a cat too

Richard

(it's a map of Australia)

If it was the bloody cat,I'm gonna kill im

He would have had to have got past me though, I'm sure I would have noticed. I did smell it before it dried up too. No cat pee smell.

Now you mention it, it does look like Australia

 

[zenataomm]

Micro porous area has allowed water seepage through which in turn has carried sediment/detritus in to block it again.

It's a warning that you should be sleeping with one arm dangling.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, zenataomm said:

Micro porous area has allowed water seepage through which in turn has carried sediment/detritus in to block it again.

It's a warning that you should be sleeping with one arm dangling.

Thats what I was thinking. The thing is, and this is by no means conclusive the ultrasonic thickness measurement I took (boat is in the water) suggested 5mm.

[RLWP]

What does it look like now?

Richard

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, RLWP said:

What does it look like now?

Richard

Its dry, and has been for approx 7 hours

[Sea Dog]

Looks a bit like the outline of a horse's head. Are you sure the Mafia didn't drop one in your bilge, realise they'd got the wrong boat, then take it away again leaving just a nasty stain?

More seriously,  fingers crossed for you Rusty - I wish you luck and hope it turns out to have been the cat!

[RLWP]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Its dry, and has been for approx 7 hours

Cat

Richard

[Tony Brooks]

Although it looks as if you have got rid of the rust scale I have had something like that but not as large where the work released water that was trapped under adjacent rust'

Its not going to sink overnight so re-inspect ASAP tomorrow morning before it gets hot.

What's above it? Could it be drops from above?

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, RLWP said:

Cat

Richard

Unfortunately, cat is keeping shtum,so leaves me wondering

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Although it looks as if you have got rid of the rust scale I have had something like that but not as large where the work released water that was trapped under adjacent rust'

Its not going to sink overnight so re-inspect ASAP tomorrow morning before it gets hot.

What's above it? Could it be drops from above?

Thanks Tony. Above appears to be a welded "false ceiling" for want of the accurate terminology, above which is the rear deck. There doesn't appear to be a leak from this.

Will be frequently checking and making some contingency plans before we set off as we have quite a journey before reaching the boatyard.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Maybe put some kitchen towel over it (held off the bottom somehow) just to be 100% there is nothing dripping from above?

Last time I thought I had a very slightly leaky weld it turned out the weed hatch was not quite as firmly secured as it might have been ... 

[Chewbacka]

Dried animal urine glows under a black light (UV torch), just a few quid on ebay.  I have one as I had a tiny coolant leak I couldn't find, so put a little fluorescein in the coolant.  Easy to trace back with a black light.

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Maybe put some kitchen towel over it (held off the bottom somehow) just to be 100% there is nothing dripping from above?

Last time I thought I had a very slightly leaky weld it turned out the weed hatch was not quite as firmly secured as it might have been ... 

Will try that. Thanks

5 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Dried animal urine glows under a black light (UV torch), just a few quid on ebay.  I have one as I had a tiny coolant leak I couldn't find, so put a little fluorescein in the coolant.  Easy to trace back with a black light.

Thanks. I may give it a go, but am convinced I would have noticed if the cat had snuck past and had a pee

[Chewbacka]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Will try that. Thanks

Thanks. I may give it a go, but am convinced I would have noticed if the cat had snuck past and had a pee

We have a dog, and I tried my black light on the living room floor thinking that the dog had never wet the carpet, the black light tells a very different story.....................

[PhilAtterley]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Over the last couple of days I have been inspired to repaint the engine room, so have been scraping and wire brushing.

To give some background, Mr Rusty is a 70 foot Les Allen trad style narrowboat, believed to have been built around 1983. My self and Mrs Rusty have lived aboard since 1999,and applied blacking every two years.

The last out of water survey in 2006 suggested the counter floor was measured to be 6mm, reducing to 5.6mm at aft chines(original 6mm plate). Now, we were booked in for a survey for 2018, until today that is.

After scraping one part, I left to go and do another bit. On return I noticed the counter floor was damp(see poor picture).Now panic set in,and thinking we were sinking I rang the yard who has us booked in for next year,who is now able to accommodate us a bit sooner (early Aug). The problem is,since this morning (warm day), the damp patch has not reappeared. Now If I hadn't taken the photo I could believe it was never there at all.

There is no obvious leak from above, or any weld or any nearby plumbing or spillage.Mrs Rusty suggested one of the cats popped in when I wasn't looking, but I don't think so.

Anyway. The question is,worse case scenario, if it needs overplating, is it worthwhile getting epoxy coating done at the same time, approx cost, and what coating to apply over the top if any.

 

Thanks

It looks very much as if you've got at least one very deep pit that's now corroded through the full thickness of the counter plate. Corrosion of this type was one of the more common sources of hard to find leaks under the shutts in elderly/worn out commercial craft of all types - the other most common cause was hull plating that had worn thin and then split or cracked.

Is your boat going to be left unattended for long periods between now and when it goes on the dock ? . . . . if so, then you should deliberately set about making it leak again and then patch from the inside with either a cement box or piece of plywood or steel plate spragged down with a suitable sized wooden prop and wedges up against the deck plating above. If you go for the cement box option and make a good enough job of it you could even cancel the August docking and leave it to be sorted out, along with anything else that might be found, after the survey you've got booked for next year.

Edited July 7, 2017 by PhilAtterley

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, PhilAtterley said:

It looks very much as if you've got at least one very deep pit that's now corroded through the full thickness of the counter plate. Corrosion of this type was one of the more common sources of hard to find leaks under the shutts in elderly/worn out commercial craft of all types - the other most common cause was hull plating that had worn thin and then split or cracked.

Is your boat going to be left unattended for long periods between now and when it goes on the dock ? . . . . if so, then you should deliberately make it leak again and patch from the inside with either a cement box or piece of plywood or steel plate spragged down with a suitable sized wooden prop and wedges up against the deck plating above. If you go for the cement box option and make a good enough job of it you could even cancel the August docking and leave it to be sorted out, along with anything else that might be found, after the survey you've got booked for next year.

Many thanks.I will make up some wooden prop wedges. I have also been advised to soak an old dish cloth/towel in waterproof grease as an emergency backup. I do have some epoxy resin, and was wondering if I should apply this whilst it is dry, the surveyor has said he would like to see it in and out of the water, so not sure

The boat will only be left un attended if I gain sufficient confidence over the coming days that were not sinking, and only then for maybe one night.

I think we have decided to go this year regardless now, for peace of mind if nothing else. Its a long winter.

Thanks again for your thoughts

[zenataomm]

I appreciate your situation and the emotions involved, but I'm sure you'll be fine.

These things are designed to make us go Arggggh! So you've had your "Arggggh" moment now put your thinking head on.

If I'm wrong then you can quote me and everyone will realise the joke's on me.

[PhilAtterley]

36 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Many thanks.I will make up some wooden prop wedges. I have also been advised to soak an old dish cloth/towel in waterproof grease as an emergency backup. I do have some epoxy resin, and was wondering if I should apply this whilst it is dry, the surveyor has said he would like to see it in and out of the water, so not sure.

No, . . . not a good idea, because whilst it's dry you don't know exactly where the pin hole that's dry now is, due to it having plugged itself up with a bit of muck from the outside.

If I was having to deal with it I'd give it a few good clouts with a light ( 8oz to 1lb) hammer in the general area where the wet patch was to get it leaking again, then mark and temporarily plug it , and then go and get whatever materials are needed to make a sound temporary patch.

I would forget the grease suggestion, . . .  even relatively little water pressure will soon manage to displace the thickest of greases. A bit of old foam backed carpet makes a very good leak stopper to go under a piece of wood or steel held down with a prop and wedges.

Edited July 7, 2017 by PhilAtterley

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, PhilAtterley said:

No, . . . not a good idea, because whilst it's dry you don't know exactly where the pin hole that's dry now due to having plugged itself up with a bit of muck from the outside.

If I was having to deal with it I'd give it a few good clouts with a light ( 8oz to 1lb) hammer in the general area where the wet patch was to get it leaking again, then mark and temporarily plug it , and then go and get whatever materials are needed to make a sound temporary patch.

Ok, no epoxy.

I'm not brave enough to start hitting it with a hammer as I'm at least 60 miles (not measured yet) from the crane, but I can see what you are saying. I know the rough area where the leak was/is, so if push comes to shove, will make preparations to shore it up with wood and goo.

Edited July 7, 2017 by rusty69

[zenataomm]

.......... goo is good!

[WotEver]

I'm with you. When you're ready to be pulled out of the water THEN hit it like crazy and see what (if anything) manifests itself. 

[PhilAtterley]

44 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I'm not brave enough to start hitting it with a hammer as I'm at least 60 miles (not measured yet) from the crane, but I can see what you are saying. I know the rough area where the leak was/is, so if push comes to shove, will make preparations to shore it up with wood and goo.

In the end, of course, the decision is yours alone to make, . . . but think about this,  . . . . would you prefer that it starts leaking again whilst you're tied-up and you can give it your undivided attention, or would you prefer it to start leaking again when you're on the move and propeller vibration/turbulence loosens that little bit of muck that's bunging the hole up at the moment ?

[rusty69]

14 minutes ago, PhilAtterley said:

In the end, of course, the decision is yours alone to make, . . . but think about this,  . . . . would you prefer that it starts leaking again whilst you're tied-up and you can give it your undivided attention, or would you prefer it to start leaking again when you're on the move and propeller vibration/turbulence loosens that little bit of muck that's bunging the hole up at the moment ?

Its a good point. I think I will take the middle option and prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Thanks for your input, I hope I won't regret not taking it.(no offence  intended)