Pointless features on boats

[Athy]

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I call it a gas spanner, because that's what it is. Certainly not a key.

 

You say so - but to me Mr. Allen's invention does not much resemble a key either!

[MtB]

On 10/07/2017 at 10:59, Athy said:

You say so - but to me Mr. Allen's invention does not much resemble a key either!

Yes it does! It is a key because it fits into a socket on the setscrew, rather than fitting around the outside of it like a spanner.

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Yes it does! It is a key because it fits into a socket on the setscrew, rather than fitting around the outside of it like a spanner.

Game, set and match to Mr. Boiler, I think, for that explanation. I hope that Andy Murray takes inspiration from your example!

[MtB]

On 10/07/2017 at 11:06, Athy said:

Game, set and match to Mr. Boiler, I think, for that explanation. I hope that Andy Murray takes inspiration from your example!

 

Astonishingly talented bod that Mr Murray. Not only has he reached the very top level in tennis but he manages to run a fantastic mint factory too. 

[Athy]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Astonishingly talented bod that Mr Murray. Not only has he reached the very top level in tennis but he manages to run a fantastic mint factory too. 

Oddly enough, Mrs. Athy's nickname for him is "Murraymint" - just one of the Wimbledon cast of characters who also include Treblinka, Fed, Jock, Noodle, Willie Wonka and Ev - but alas not Flora any more, as she seems to get knocked out in the first round these days.

[Ray T]

3 hours ago, X Alan W said:

 My Question why did perfectly good names etc.have to be altered to something different & become the norm to the degree if the original name is quoted either the person doe's not reconise or pulls you up for not using the " so called proper name" now in use

I  have on several occasions had a similar conversation with Mike H, "You are using names for places I don't recognise."

Part of the problem? is that like life, this thread, language is fluid. How many people on the cut today would know that what is now, "The Calcutt locks" was "Wigrams 3." Ariston; Birningum; Bugby; Bederth and Braanston, Maffers, Soulbury 3; Louse Lock, Wigrams Turn was Napton Junction. There are many many more

I think the decline from well known names is partly due to the canal guides we now have e.g. Collins / Nicholson calls Hillmorton Bottom lock "Grantham's Bridge." 

Listening to the way some of the few working boaters we have left speak, they pronounce place name as the locals did or their piers. The Ramlin' Rose book is a good example of this. Even now many of the boaters are unable to read and this therein causes stigma in a society far removed from where they lived and grew up.

Mike H "I'm thick Ray, I can't read." I got a little cross with him and explained that I knew that he and the boat children never had the opportunity for schooling, but they had life skills most today will never grasp.

He thought for a while and said proudly "Perhaps I can't read but I can count money."

Edited July 10, 2017 by Ray T

[X Alan W]

And I've no doubt beside being able to count money he could add up the spots on domino's & deduct scores at darts. It always saddened me when I first started working on the cut, that when the families knew i was there to lean & work & not as they would say of land brought up folk He's a "Rodney" only here to "muck about" that I or my wife was approached to read/write letters for them ,as my wife had worked for a law firm she was ideal for the tasks at hand, but on acceptance we were helped/assisted to a much greater degree than what we could offer I really treasured & valued that phase of my life I wished I could have been involved in carrying for a longer time period To me & I will never change my opinion the boat families by & large were & the ones still around are the salt of the earth, unfortunately as time & they pass there is no renewal for that way of life, I feel honored to have been accepted & been apart of for a short time

[DandV]

6 hours ago, X Alan W said:

If you choose to live in squalor on a a boat now days I guess that'syour right  back in the days of commercial carrying (Mid 19th century ) It became a law & boats had to be inspected & a certificate issued & the details displayed on the boat I had to get my boats inspected as late as 1957

 

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I call it a gas spanner, because that's what it is. Certainly not a key.

I tend to say engine room but the context dictates. For example I might say "a traditional layout boat with back cabin and engine room", then later say "the spare can of diesel is down in the engine 'ole".

In my days in hands on engineering both in New Zealand and England the combination spanner to connect and then turn on or off gas cylinders, oxygen, acetylene, compressed air, etc were universally called gas keys. Perhaps the same device should have been called a spanner when connecting a bottle but a key when operating the shrouded square drive opening valve? Does it matter which alternative name is used?

Don

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, DandV said:

 

In my days in hands on engineering both in New Zealand and England the combination spanner to connect and then turn on or off gas cylinders, oxygen, acetylene, compressed air, etc were universally called gas keys. Perhaps the same device should have been called a spanner when connecting a bottle but a key when operating the shrouded square drive opening valve? Does it matter which alternative name is used?

Don

Not if everyone understands what is meant, no - it's just an example of the diversity of our language. Thanks for that information.

It only matters if a misunderstanding could lead to danger - like "inflammable" and "flammable" which sound like opposites but are in fact synonyms. I guess that's why the latter is more often used nowadays.

[Bewildered]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

My mum and dad who both grew up in Hayes, viewed boaters with deep suspicion and mistrust. Best avoided, they taught me as I grew up. I suspect this was a virtually universal attitude at the the time amongst those living on the bank. 

Interesting that you should say this Mike, my family is from Hayes, my grandmother lived in Hayes all her life. She grew up in North Hyde Road which runs parallel to Nestles Avenue by Bulls Bridge. When I first mentioned to her, 20 odd years ago, that I fancied the idea of living on a narrow boat she was absolutly appalled. I think she considered boaters to be dirty people as in unwashed. I don't know about untrustworthy but definitely not clean.

I bet there is a good chance my grandmother knew your parents, she seemed to know just about everyone in Hayes 

[Captain Pegg]

7 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I am with Athy on this one. The boats are built in both cases to make the owner money. There are many jobs in life that are easier than others to make money but peeps still do the harder ones or they would not get done and there would be no diversity in the workplace. The canals may well not have been set up for leisure use but neither was our road system.

Also there is plenty of money to be made in hire fleets when they are done properly. Just sayin like.

 

7 hours ago, Athy said:

If, for "strange", you were to substitute "accurate", I would be entirely in agreement with you.

An output of any commercial enterprise if that it needs to make money to be able to continue. That doesn't make it the purpose of all businesses. It was Ray T's use of the word "only" that I thought was a misrepresentation. The purpose of a business is the service it provides.

In the case of early canals and boats I would contend that profits of the canal and the boats thereon were secondary to the commerce enabled by the cheap and safe carriage of goods. That's why I mentioned early canals.

To use a railway analogy saying a hire boat is the successor to the working boat is like saying a main line steam special is the successor to a steam hauled freight train. I doubt anyone would think that is the case when there are diesel and electric hauled freight trains about. The working narrowboat has no direct successor - even the coal boaters have a different purpose. It takes more than being a commercial enterprise on water.

JP

[Athy]

Aye aye, Captain. I can see your points, but cannot altogether concur with them. For instance, I would suggest that "the purpose of a business is to make money through the service it provides". For example, most people would agree that banks provide a valuable service by keeping our money safe - but few would argue that they do so out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Rob-M]

5 hours ago, Ray T said:

I  have on several occasions had a similar conversation with Mike H, "You are using names for places I don't recognise."

Part of the problem? is that like life, this thread, language is fluid. How many people on the cut today would know that what is now, "The Calcutt locks" was "Wigrams 3." Ariston; Birningum; Bugby; Bederth and Braanston, Maffers, Soulbury 3; Louse Lock, Wigrams Turn was Napton Junction. There are many many more

I think the decline from well known names is partly due to the canal guides we now have e.g. Collins / Nicholson calls Hillmorton Bottom lock "Grantham's Bridge." 

Listening to the way some of the few working boaters we have left speak, they pronounce place name as the locals did or their piers. The Ramlin' Rose book is a good example of this. Even now many of the boaters are unable to read and this therein causes stigma in a society far removed from where they lived and grew up.

Mike H "I'm thick Ray, I can't read." I got a little cross with him and explained that I knew that he and the boat children never had the opportunity for schooling, but they had life skills most today will never grasp.

He thought for a while and said proudly "Perhaps I can't read but I can count money."

Joe Hollingshead is the same, he may not be able to read and write but he can certainly count when it comes to money.

[Ray T]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

Aye aye, Captain. I can see your points, but cannot altogether concur with them. For instance, I would suggest that "the purpose of a business is to make money through the service it provides". For example, most people would agree that banks provide a valuable service by keeping our money safe - but few would argue that they do so out of the goodness of their hearts.

Also I've yet to meet a hire company who runs their boating  business at a loss for altruism towards their  customers. For the customer the aim is to have an enjoyable time.

For the hire company it is to make a profit.

In 2008 my mother was nearing her lifes end. Mrs T and myself had already booked a boat in Cheshire for two weeks. My mum told us to go. We had been out for12 hours and  my sister  phoned and suggested it would be best to come home. We returned the boat and left for home. The boatyard offered us nothing for the unused 13 days. Whilst I realise they were under no obligation to do so a gesture for good will or the offer of another hire would have been a good PR move. I phoned a week later to enquire if the boat was free and it had been rehired. Circa £1500 for 24 hours of hire - not bad.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Ray T

[b0atman]

On 05/07/2017 at 15:19, zenataomm said:

Being a member of the Travelling Bargees Association or whatever they call themselves.

membership of whilst being a genuine continuous cruiser 

[Captain Pegg]

2 hours ago, Ray T said:

Also I've yet to meet a hire company who runs their boating  business at a loss for altruism towards their  customers. For the customer the aim is to have an enjoyable time.

For the hire company it is to make a profit.

In 2008 my mother was nearing her lifes end. Mrs T and myself had already booked a boat in Cheshire for two weeks. My mum told us to go. We had been out for12 hours and  my sister  phoned and suggested it would be best to come home. We returned the boat and left for home. The boatyard offered us nothing for the unused 13 days. Whilst I realise they were under no obligation to do so a gesture for good will or the offer of another hire would have been a good PR move. I phoned a week later to enquire if the boat was free and it had been rehired. Circa £1500 for 24 hours of hire - not bad.

I appreciate those are unfortunate circumstances and may not have been covered but the company probably worked on the basis you have the choice to insure against that loss; they maybe even offered such at the time of booking.

Your statement that the only purpose for their existence is to make money is too simplistic. There are multiple drivers and objectives. One of which is obviously to at least break even. Do you think the owner boatmen you research were in it to make money above simply trying to find gainful employment to scratch out a living?

Athy's point that the "ultimate" aim is to make money has some truth at a high level but if you put your mind to it you should be able to think of many businesses who's primary aim is not to make money. You would have to contract with one to run a hire fleet for starters. Often described as "not for profit" but in reality they are "not for dividend". Profit is fine as it can be reinvested but it isn't the principle aim of all organisations or the sole purpose of any (OK so maybe there are some totally unscrupulous ones out there where it is).

JP

 

[Peter-Bullfinch]

Teapots

 

[ditchcrawler]

Well I suppose the hole idea of having a Narrowboat is pretty pointless.

[zenataomm]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Well I suppose the hole idea of having a Narrowboat is pretty pointless.

Especially if it's in the bottom.

[tagulablue]

Anybody said fake grass on roofs or decks

[Naughty Cal]

On 10/07/2017 at 11:21, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Astonishingly talented bod that Mr Murray. Not only has he reached the very top level in tennis but he manages to run a fantastic mint factory too. 

Not talented enough.

Clearly he is Scottish today

[WotEver]

46 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Clearly he is Scottish today

Spot on

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Spot on

Scot on, surely?

[Machpoint005]

When does Johanna Konta become Australian (or Hungarian)?

[system 4-50]

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

When does Johanna Konta become Australian (or Hungarian)?

If she has 50 children then she becomes a boat.