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Windows leaking!! I have a plan but advice very welcome


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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I searched on his channel under windows, there are two relevant, the one I was thinking of was this one

 

Yes I've seen that one. Whilst it's interesting it has nothing whatsoever to do with narrowboats. From the materials the light is made from, through the products he uses, to the techniques employed, none of it has any relevance at all to sewer tubes. 

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1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Yes I've seen that one. Whilst it's interesting it has nothing whatsoever to do with narrowboats. From the materials the light is made from, through the products he uses, to the techniques employed, none of it has any relevance at all to sewer tubes. 

It tells you why you need to select the right materials for the job, and how to go about it, using a successful, logical,, methodology, get predictable results, and a professional finish.

There are dozens of different sealants, adhesives, available, I think that if you do your research you wil be able to select the correct one for your purpose, and for other purposes in the future.

Something labelled marine sealant is not going to work in every marine application, and I have knowm folks who swear by BandQ shower silicone for every purpose, not a good idea.

Edited by LadyG
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6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It tells you why you need to select the right materials for the job, and how to go about it, using a successful, logical,, methodology.

You've just said that in a single sentence.

Those are the rules for any job in any discipline anywhere. There's no point watching a 20 minute video on how to seal acrylic to grp just to find that out. 

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

You've just said that in a single sentence.

Those are the rules for any job in any discipline anywhere. There's no point watching a 20 minute video on how to seal acrylic to grp just to find that out. 

Well it clarified my thinking, and I am much more confident about sealing narrow boat windows after watching a few vidoes, much better to start a project with knowledge than without.

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Just now, LadyG said:

Well it clarified my thinking, and I am much more confident about sealing narrow boat windows after watching a few vidoes, much better to start a project with knowledge than without.

If you're going to seal narrowboat windows then the best advice would be not to do any of the things he did. Don't lay the window on a bed and then try to seal around it and most definitely don't use silicone. 

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21 minutes ago, WotEver said:

If you're going to seal narrowboat windows then the best advice would be not to do any of the things he did. Don't lay the window on a bed and then try to seal around it and most definitely don't use silicone. 

Yes, of course,  I now know that won't work.

I am not sure that silicone would be unsucessfull if sealing glass in to a metal window frame though. I might be thinking about replacing the glass on an old boat, but if it does not need replacement, it still might be better being bedded in with fresh silicon.

I am not sure why glass is always used rather than polycarbonate sheeting, it is something I would look at, and also at double glazed windows which are now an option on narrow boats.

Putting the window frame in to the steel of the cabin side is a different matter. One does not want to use a permanent adhesive which would require the destruction of the window for removal, as they will probably need to come out again at some time, eg for painting the hull.

Edited by LadyG
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butile rubber from midland chandlers everytime!,frame out, clean frame and the all round on the boat, push the rubber off the roll,onto the opening ,peel off backing paper,put the frame back in,tighten screws, trim excess with a sharp Stanley knife,did 4 windows last week cost about £10 a roll, no leaks so far. Good luck

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11 hours ago, lpp1612 said:

trim excess with a sharp Stanley knife..

No... this risks scratching the paint and causing rust just where you don't want it. As per previous posts (6,7,15) in this thread, simply ensure that the rubber is 2 or 3mm away from the edge. 

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So according to the channel glaze video they recommend siliconing the window frame but this does seem to look a little messy :/

http://www.channelglaze.com/technical-support/how-to-fit-your-windows-or-portholes/

also the tape supplied by seals direct says the glue is not waterproof ! surly this cannot be ok for windows ?

http://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/shopping.asp?intDepartmentId=1#14

Still not sure which window tape to go for??

Thanks

Martin

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3 hours ago, meerlaan said:

So according to the channel glaze video they recommend siliconing the window frame but this does seem to look a little messy :/

http://www.channelglaze.com/technical-support/how-to-fit-your-windows-or-portholes/

also the tape supplied by seals direct says the glue is not waterproof ! surly this cannot be ok for windows ?

http://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/shopping.asp?intDepartmentId=1#14

Still not sure which window tape to go for??

Thanks

Martin

Remember once the window is in the tape will be highly compressed so the glue is in effect doing nothing. Its only there to help you get and hold the tape to the frame while you fit it.

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ok so to keep everyone updated I ordered some neoprene tape from seals direct as they got back to me with a price which seemed reasonable and am just waiting for it to arrive so I can begin trying it out...

but then of course I just got this response from another company, so am feeling confused again :/ 

"In response to your question about foam tape, closed cell neoprene foam tape is not recommended for sealing as it absorbs moisture before degrading rapidly. There is a chance that this could work with the secondary seal as suggested but certainly not if left open to the moist marine environment. We have seen cases where the foam has absorbed that much moisture, that when pressure is applied against the windows, water just oozes out. We do not know why boat fitters state the use of this material for sealing and in our experience it just doesn’t work. We try our best to educate what we have found in our 37 years and strongly suggest the use of a true sealant.

For the secondary cap bead seal around the perimeter of the window we recommend a high quality, low modulus silicone, neutral cure silicone which would allow for the flexing of the boat but you must be careful as some silicones do not work with butyl tape and just never sets. We can supply silicone which we have researched that works with our butyl tape and ticks all the necessary boxes for the marine environment. We also have silicone smoother tools to help cap bead the silicone around the perimeter of the window.

I hope this helps, please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further questions or would like a quotation for our recommended fitting materials and tools."

Anyone else have any thought on this ?

 

 

 

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On 2 July 2017 at 07:14, WotEver said:

No... this risks scratching the paint and causing rust just where you don't want it. As per previous posts (6,7,15) in this thread, simply ensure that the rubber is 2 or 3mm away from the edge. 

I watch the pro builders (1 hull every 2 weeks) doing the windows on the boat next to me in the yard. They used the tape right up to the edge of the frame. When the window was fitted some sqeezed out. This was left for a day or so and then the excess was then trimmed off just using the pressure from the wrong side of a pair of scissors. This was quite enough to cut the excess cleanly without risking the paintwork.

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37 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I watch the pro builders (1 hull every 2 weeks) doing the windows on the boat next to me in the yard. They used the tape right up to the edge of the frame. When the window was fitted some sqeezed out. This was left for a day or so and then the excess was then trimmed off just using the pressure from the wrong side of a pair of scissors. This was quite enough to cut the excess cleanly without risking the paintwork.

That makes sense :)

Certainly not "a sharp Stanley knife" though. 

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I'm gonna be doing the same thing very soon with two of our windows.

they are exactly the same as the OP.

this is the seal I will be buying...

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neoprene-Foam-Strip-ROLL-Adhesive-Backed-Weather-Seal-Boat-Car-12095-/162096143182?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150519202351%26meid%3Dc3ebdc1cab4645ff814f769e77a85af0%26pid%3D100408%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D151287643289&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

 

think this is also what your after, someone correct me if I'm wrong

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Hi everyone, 

You keep you all updated I ended up using the butyl tape as it just looked better :)

Removing the window was fairly easy sticking the tape is quite difficult as it's soo bloody sticky it sticks to itself and everything in its way. But I didn't as was recommended and the problems I had were...

I tried to run the tape along the edge of the window and planned to trim what squidged out but very little did !! Even though I did the screws quite tight :/

Biggest problem was when I put the screws in and screwed them the butyl tape wrapped itself around the screw meaning it dragged the material from nearby the more I screwd in the more it did this essentially leaving a little gap at the edge. (Not sure that makes sense)

Anyone have any tips on how I should have been doing this ? I tried tout push the screw in first and then turn but didn't seem to help much. Do people silicon the screws in???

So in the end I put some silicone around the edge also just to be sure. Think it will be ok :)

Will put some photos when I get a chance but any more tips greatly apreciated before I try the next one!!

 

thanks 

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