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Windows leaking!! I have a plan but advice very welcome


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Hello all,

There are a few posts about redoing aluminium windows but just wanted to double check with the more experience that my plan made some sense and for some advise regarding particular products.

I have aluminium windows as per photos and what with the recent rainy weather I found at least two of them leaking pretty badly ! they are 10years old or so. (I have owned the boat about a year and a half)

THE PLAN:

- Remove all wood framework inside

- Unscrew windows from outside (drill out any that have rounded)

- Prize away windows trying to keep from bending, using a pallet knife to break seal

- Rub down with sandpaper and Fertan any rusty metal behind (wasn't sure if I would need to paint after Fertan?)

- Clean windows up, remove any old silicone

- Use a new rubber window seal (need some help here...)

*Not sure which particular product to use ! Midlands seems to stock a few types? Could someone confirm which product to use?

These were the three products I couldn't seem to figure out which one to go for.... Product Code: CW-052, Product Code: C120, Product Code: CW-015

*What do I stick this to? window or boat? (I am assuming its one sided sticky)

*Not sure what to do at corners, presumably I cut this into 2 long and 2 short lengths the same as window, then do I mitre the corners as best I can?

- Ok, then re-screw window back in, not sure what the screws go into presumably self tapping into the boat steel ??

- Then finally ,apply small bead of silicon around window frame

*Anyone recommend a sealant for this, heard mixed things about sikaflex and I understand its important to get a marine one.

 

So... Have I missed anything??

Any tips at all really appreciated as I am a little nervous about taking my windows out, I am going to start with one ! 

Many thanks in advance, Look forward to reading your opinions.

Martin

 

Photos below:

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Above is window from outside.

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Above is screws attaching windows

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Above is more screws from outside that look like they might be a pain to get out :/

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Above is wooden framework inside boat that I was planning to remove first !

 

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I do not see why you feel you need to remove the wooden trims inside.

I used a sort of heavy mastic trip from MC on mine but it oozes out over time. Next time I would consider closed cell foam " rubber".

By all means use Fertan if needed but I would and did prime, undercoat and top coat before fitting the windows.

I would not mitre the top corner joints, water can run downhill. I made a horizontal joint but that's my personal choice.

  • Greenie 1
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The window tape:  should be about 15mm wide and 2 or 3 mm thick.   Go straight across the top to the outside edges.  Then go round the end of the window, pushing it hard up against the top strip then feed it round.  It will curve to follow the curve of the window in the bottom corners.  If the windows have been put in with tape, perhpas with a little bead of silicone round the edge, they should come out easily.  If someone fitted them with Sikaflex or similar then it will be a pig of a job to get them out cleanly.

Are you sure the windows are leaking, rather than condensation on the frame?  I've seen many boats where it was thought they were leaking but it was condensation.  If the staining is on the inside of the wood trim this is a possibility - leaking windows often just let water in behind the lining.

If it is a leak, and it is small, a few applications of 'Captain Tolley's leaking crack cure' can work wonders.

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I've used neoprene tape, example here

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Self-Adhesive-Neoprene-Gasket-Seal-Tape-10Wx5Dmm-x10m-/182194369121?epid=718760138&hash=item2a6ba17261:g:zuoAAMXQydtTKLbU

 

Clean the windows as you've said, then stick the tape to the window trim about 5mm from the edge. Do the top first with a single piece, then start by butting up to this piece on the side. The tape will follow the curves at the bottom, hence you can do the sides and the bottom as 1 single piece. Quick to do, no mess and, more importantly, no leaks (so far!!)

 

And 'Dor' has just replied with very similar advice :-)

 

Kevin

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I do not see why you feel you need to remove the wooden trims inside.

I used a sort of heavy mastic trip from MC on mine but it oozes out over time. Next time I would consider closed cell foam " rubber".

By all means use Fertan if needed but I would and did prime, undercoat and top coat before fitting the windows.

I would not mitre the top corner joints, water can run downhill. I made a horizontal joint but that's my personal choice.

 

All good advice, I would say.

I also can't understand your reasons for wanting to remove any internal trim.

You may find those external screws are tapped into the boat steel, but equally they may just be screwing through holes into the steel and into the battens that support the internal lining out of the boat.

I'm not a  fan of the closed cell foam tape - or at least not some that MC sold us that didn't seem to be closed cell at all.  It leaked badly!

Despite what Tony says about the mastic strip based stuff oozing over time, it is still my weapon of choice.  The best stuff is branded Glasticord, and is an Evostick product.  It seems hard to buy in small enough quantities though.

Silicon sealant will probably fail over about 10 years - your current experiences seem to support that view!

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3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

All good advice, I would say.

I also can't understand your reasons for wanting to remove any internal trim.

You may find those external screws are tapped into the boat steel, but equally they may just be screwing through holes into the steel and into the battens that support the internal lining out of the boat.

I'm not a  fan of the closed cell foam tape - or at least not some that MC sold us that didn't seem to be closed cell at all.  It leaked badly!

Despite what Tony says about the mastic strip based stuff oozing over time, it is still my weapon of choice.  The best stuff is branded Glasticord, and is an Evostick product.  It seems hard to buy in small enough quantities though.

Silicon sealant will probably fail over about 10 years - your current experiences seem to support that view!

I know you had a bad experience with MC's foam tape, but the stuff I got from eBay was definitely closed cell and didn't absorb water. However I also put a narrow bead of Sikaflex around the outside -mostly for cosmetic reasons. One advantage of foam tape is that if you have to remove a window due to glass breakage, it's much easier, and you don't need sealing goo to hand.

The windows were originally bedded on with sikaflex and I found plastic paint guards from B&Q were great for pushing in between window and cabin side to seperate the windows without scratching the paint. I would avoid using anything metal.

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18 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

One advantage of foam tape is that if you have to remove a window due to glass breakage, it's much easier, and you don't need sealing goo to hand.

It is equally dead easy to remove a window that is bedded down on to a mastic "tape" such as Glasticord - it never actually sets hard. However I have only done so to facilitate painting - I don't think you are ever going to get a leak using that product unless rust spreads back under poor paintwork.

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6 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It is equally dead easy to remove a window that is bedded down on to a mastic "tape" such as Glasticord - it never actually sets hard. However I have only done so to facilitate painting - I don't think you are ever going to get a leak using that product unless rust spreads back under poor paintwork.

No it doesn't set hard but it is pretty sticky. I think it can tend to get squeezed out over time especially in hot weather and with the differential expansion of aluminium and steel, but I agree it's one of the better options.

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13 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It is equally dead easy to remove a window that is bedded down on to a mastic "tape" such as Glasticord - it never actually sets hard. However I have only done so to facilitate painting - I don't think you are ever going to get a leak using that product unless rust spreads back under poor paintwork.

It probably depends upon the tape maker but  am sure my windows were fitted with mastic tape judging by the colour but when I took them out the sealing was all but hard, it just flaked off in strips that snapped rather than bent. However I suspect it was over 15 years old.

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Personally before tampering with suspect windows I'd just get some builders gutter sealant and smear it round the edges of the frame  then wait for another rainy day to see if the frame really is leaking.  Condensation can easily trick you into thinking you have a leak and it's almost impossible not to have condensation somewhere on a steel boat.  I have at least two "leaks" that I now know for certain are condensation, but because the water typically appears on a wet day I initially believed it was getting in somehow from the outside.   

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Hi all,

thanks very much for all your detailed responses!

Re windows leaking, I am pretty confident they are as I had almost a cup of water on my new worktop !! and the inside frame seems soggy, I can also see gaps from the outside :/ Thats another reason I thought to start with taking all the wood out to get a good look at what it going on!

Thanks for the tip with the top strip running all the way accross this makes total sense, With regards to the 5mm from edge, could you clarify if this is inset or 5mm outside ?? I am guessing its outside and then trimmed back after.

I am concered about the painting now. I am aware that my boat probably needs a repaint in a year or so :/ would it be advised to reset the windows now and then when it comes to someone painting can they paint up to the window frame and mask the windows? seems like a lot of work to take them out again? Does everyone else paint up to topcoat behind windows ?

Any recommendations on the particular product to seal edge of the windows with - sikaflex have lots of types does 295 sound suitable ?

Thanks again for your advice

Martin

 

 

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6 minutes ago, meerlaan said:

Any recommendations on the particular product to seal edge of the windows with.

My recommendation......

Nothing!

Whether you go for a closed cell foam strip, or, (my preference), a mastic strip such as Glasticord, rely solely on whatever you have chosen to do the sealing.  Why try going around the wsindows, (and by implication on to some of the external paintwork around the windows).

If you don't trust what you have put between the frame and the boat, then are you also going to individually seal each screw head with some other product as well?

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19 minutes ago, meerlaan said:

Hi all,

thanks very much for all your detailed responses!

Re windows leaking, I am pretty confident they are as I had almost a cup of water on my new worktop !! and the inside frame seems soggy, I can also see gaps from the outside :/ Thats another reason I thought to start with taking all the wood out to get a good look at what it going on!

Thanks for the tip with the top strip running all the way accross this makes total sense, With regards to the 5mm from edge, could you clarify if this is inset or 5mm outside ?? I am guessing its outside and then trimmed back after.

I am concered about the painting now. I am aware that my boat probably needs a repaint in a year or so :/ would it be advised to reset the windows now and then when it comes to someone painting can they paint up to the window frame and mask the windows? seems like a lot of work to take them out again? Does everyone else paint up to topcoat behind windows ?

Any recommendations on the particular product to seal edge of the windows with - sikaflex have lots of types does 295 sound suitable ?

Thanks again for your advice

Martin

 

 

I set mine about 5mm inside the frame, this gap filled up as the tape compressed and required no trimming. However, I can see nothing wrong with setting it right to the edge and trimming the excess off when fully fitted.

 

Kevin

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3 hours ago, Kev's Halcyon said:

I set mine about 5mm inside the frame, this gap filled up as the tape compressed and required no trimming. However, I can see nothing wrong with setting it right to the edge and trimming the excess off when fully fitted.

 

Kevin

Surely if you trim it you risk scratching the paint at just the point where you can't rub it down and repaint. An invitation to get rust under the frame.

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8 hours ago, David Mack said:

Surely if you trim it you risk scratching the paint at just the point where you can't rub it down and repaint. An invitation to get rust under the frame.

Very true, hadn't thought my reply through!! I knew there was a reason why I inset the tape by 5mm.

 

Kevin

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Great tips thanks,

So my thought with silicon on the outside was to stop there being a flat ledge at the top where water could sit ?? Does that make sense hopefully this is not an issue.

Ok so screws it seems I need A2 stainless anyone know where I can get these from and which types my windows will take ?? 

Thanks 

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AS a newby, I have been getting crammed full of info, before the boating starts in earnest, and the Youtube channel BoatworksToday has a very intersting vlog on fitting windows, OK not narrowboat windows, but he discusses fitting windows, in GREAT DETAIL, so you can decide how to approach this problem.

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9 hours ago, LadyG said:

AS a newby, I have been getting crammed full of info, before the boating starts in earnest, and the Youtube channel BoatworksToday has a very intersting vlog on fitting windows, OK not narrowboat windows, but he discusses fitting windows, in GREAT DETAIL, so you can decide how to approach this problem.

With Boatworks having hundreds of videos (how does he ever get any work done?) I guess it would help if you gave us a link to the one you're referring to. 

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oh right sorry, 

I searched on his channel under windows, there are two relevant, the one I was thinking of was this one

and this one

and there is one dicussing Marine Caulking

Edited by LadyG
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