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Leaking Pigeon box Glass


dmr

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This rain has revealed a few leaks from the pigeon boxes. It looks like the glass is a little loose in the brass portholes. Boat is now 16 years old so suspect original adhesive is at the end of its life. Does anybody here have first hand experience and hints and tips of best adhesive to refit the glass? I am very tempted to try araldite.

..................Dave

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3 minutes ago, dmr said:

This rain has revealed a few leaks from the pigeon boxes. It looks like the glass is a little loose in the brass portholes. Boat is now 16 years old so suspect original adhesive is at the end of its life. Does anybody here have first hand experience and hints and tips of best adhesive to refit the glass? I am very tempted to try araldite.

..................Dave

I have the same problem - to lazy to fix it. I do suggest that Araldite is not the solution because:-

  • It sets rigid and hard, and you'd probably have to smash the glass as well as the brass frame
  • The brass castings are not very smooth and you need something that's better than Araldite to fill the imperfections 
  • In my case much of the leakage is through the mounting screw holes

Modern silicone glass sealing compounds have been suggested before, the challenge is that you're working with very narrow contact areas and any contraction will let the water in.

My originals had rubber gaskets but they tore around the screw holes.....

Somebody else will be along shortly to enlighten us both.

I wait in anticipation!

 

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Well firstly the glass should not be loose, this will be the reason there is a path for the water to pass through. Porthole castings are very crude and the glass just fits (very) loosely into a recess on the underside. The gaps need filling with something splodgy.

Secondly I have tried several times over to fix the leaks in my prism lights which are also glass castings held in brass castings. Silicone doesn't work. It seems ok at first but after a couple of months the bond to the cast brass fails and the leaks return.

Thirdly, I finally fixed the leaks with that mega-sticky stuff in tubes designed for sealing things on boats. Can't remember the name of it though. 

Hope  that helps :)

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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Well firstly the glass should not be loose, this will be the reason there is a path for the water to pass through. Porthole castings are very crude and the glass just fits (very) loosely into a recess on the underside. The gaps need filling with something splodgy.

Secondly I have tried several times over to fix the leaks in my prism lights which are also glass castings held in brass castings. Silicone doesn't work. It seems ok at first but after a couple of months the bond to the cast brass fails and the leaks return.

Thirdly, I finally fixed the leaks with that mega-sticky stuff in tubes designed for sealing things on boats. Can't remember the name of it though. 

Hope  that helps :)

Oh, yes - is it the stuff that's been discussed on here for fixing solar panels' feet? Used a lot on boats on the salty stuff. Got a number in its name?

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OldGoat: My leakage is between the glass and the brass porthole where the adhesive has failed. I reckon araldite is good at gap filling, I have used it once or twice to mould small components. My porthole to steel sealing was done with butyl rubber but I will change that to neoprene gaskets when I get the ports out to fix the glass. I will make the screw holes a bit oversize as this should prevent the gaskets tearing. A bit of threadlock, (the softest version) should stop the bolts leaking.

Mike   do you mean marineflex? I tried that a while ago for the same purpose and was not impressed, its too stodgy/viscous to do a good job and I reckon its a very sticky sealant rather than a good proper adhesive.

..............Dave

 

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Yes Marineflex, that's it! But it's sealant you need, not adhesive in my opinion. The brass porthole rings hold the glass in place, and the gaps need filling with jollup.

I'd be wary of Aralditing the glass to the brass unless the coefficients of expansion of the two materials are close or identical.

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35 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Yes Marineflex, that's it! But it's sealant you need, not adhesive in my opinion. The brass porthole rings hold the glass in place, and the gaps need filling with jollup.

I'd be wary of Aralditing the glass to the brass unless the coefficients of expansion of the two materials are close or identical.

In mine there is nothing at all to locate the glass, it just sits against the rough inner face of the brass so is held in place only by an adhesive.

The corresponding hole in the pigeon box steel has been cut (rather badly) to a slightly larger diameter than the glass itself so provides no help in locating or holding the glass.

I will have a look at expansion co-efficients, suspect glass is much less than brass.

............Dave

 

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Well,   brass is 18 micrometer per meter per degree whilst glass is between 6 and 9.

The glass is only about 80mm diameter, so could work out a worse case movement, it will be fractions of a micrometer, but then have no idea what is acceptable.

Marineflex was not a success so still tempted to go for araldite. My main reservation is that its not easy to do a neat job with araldite, especially if gaps needs filling, as its surprisingly mobile till its set.

.............Dave

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34 minutes ago, dmr said:

In mine there is nothing at all to locate the glass, it just sits against the rough inner face of the brass so is held in place only by an adhesive.

The corresponding hole in the pigeon box steel has been cut (rather badly) to a slightly larger diameter than the glass itself so provides no help in locating or holding the glass.

I will have a look at expansion co-efficients, suspect glass is much less than brass.

............Dave

 

 

Oh I see the problem. The holes in my steel are all a few millimetres smaller than the glass so the glass is trapped and non-setting gloop works fine. 

Will have to have a think about that...

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Silly idea I expect and I`m sure others will correct me but what about "Plummers Mate" . Is non-setting and has to put up with irregular surfaces and expansion and contraction?

Another silly idea. Is it possible to fix some permanent "clips" say u-shaped and then bed the glass in those with a non-setting product surrounding all?

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2 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Silly idea I expect and I`m sure others will correct me but what about "Plummers Mate" . Is non-setting and has to put up with irregular surfaces and expansion and contraction?

 

With pleasure. The stuff is called "Plumber's Mate"... :D

But more seriously, no it won't help as the glass will still be free to fall out through the hole in the steel.

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As was pointed out by myself in a previous topic- my brain and fingers work in a different environment. Or just old,stupid and dont read what I`ve typed. Thanks for the correction.

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

But more seriously, no it won't help as the glass will still be free to fall out through the hole in the steel.

Obviously not viewing physically the problem what about the thought regarding the clips. Or is that too a no go?

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34 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

With pleasure. The stuff is called "Plumber's Mate"... :D

But more seriously, no it won't help as the glass will still be free to fall out through the hole in the steel.

Its done a good job under my chimney collar, lasted several years now and no sign of any leakage, but for the porthole glass I need a good adhesive. The current situation is not ideal but fixing it properly would be time consuming and costly, so i'm just going to glue the glass back in.

They glue windscreens into cars these days so I reckon a little round window should be fine. Have thought about proper windscreen glue but not sure that's the right stuff for a rough brass surface.

..............Dave

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1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

Captain Tolleys creeping crack cure. Just temporarily tape up the bottom of the joint until it sets.

 

Is that not just a cyanoacrylate adhesive that relies on a very thin gap to prompt setting?

I can't imagine that working on Dave's application!

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The traditional material would be ordinary glazing putty.  That's what I used to put the glasses in the brasses for a recently manufactured pigeon box.  It seems to be working just fine.

  • Greenie 1
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12 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Why not cut out a sort of huge washer-fitted between porthole glass and pigeon box-  it wouldnt have to be particulary thick and would act as a glass retainer and something to seal to.

Thought of that, nice idea. It would really need to be in brass, at least 1.5mm thick, maybe even 2mm. I would need 12 of them. Cutting 70mm holes neatly in sheet metal is not trivial, especially on a boat. If I still had access to a workshop I might do it.  A plate on the inside face of the pigeon boxes would be even neater, the holes almost look like they were flame cut so not at all tidy, I would love to improve them. One of the hardest things for me about CC'ing is accepting that everything must be done with hand tools on the front deck or towpath. Boat jobs now have to be just good enough rather than proper, I am no longer an engineer, I am a boater? :D

...............Dave     

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Surely the holes in the steel should be the same size as the holes in the brass, so the glass is trapped between the two. Have you thought about getting new 'wings' made for the pigeon box with the right size holes? Then you can use any jollop of your choice to seal them.

 

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