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OK to empty cassette in towpath hedge?


mross

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25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Where do you think the elsan leads  ?

 

It is either connected to the main drains, as per your house, or a septic tank or treatment station from which the 'contents' are taken by tanker to the sewage works where it is treated and joins your household sewage.

I think it is a big tank which is emptied by a tanker and treated as hazardous waste, not as organic waste, but I may be wrong.

I am sure it is not connected to the main drains , in fact the house sewage goes to the sewage treatment station, not directly in to the sea, which is why the toilet goes to a seperate system to the kitchen sink.

Edited by LadyG
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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I think it is a ig tank which is emptied by a tanker and treated as hazardous waste, not as organic waste, but I may be wrong.

We own a caravan park.

Our 'big-tank' (55 person per day sewage system) 'water'  overflows into the adjacent dyke (we used to have to have a discharge licence but this was done away with by the EA a few years ago) and the solids are taken away (about 6 monthly) by a tanker - they used to discharge this onto the farmland (quite legally) but now the law has changed and they must take it to the local sewage works were it is treated the same as 'household' sewage -

The 'nasty chemicals' become a fraction of parts per million when mixed in with the daily 'sewage' from 10,000+ households.

Once thru' the sewage woks it is discharged into the river, where it becomes diluted by 'another million' times.

We have to (by law) get a certificate showing proper disposal buts 'that's all folks'.

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8 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Or no additive at all. We have never added any additives to our tank and there is no smell from it at all.

Adequate ventilation is the key.

Don't add anything then other then wee and poo.

But that only works if we all agree to do that, and also to empty it pdq in to the sanitation station, which would very soon become extremely bio-acvtive,

The additive must be there to prevent natural bio-activity.

A tank is sort of sealed, but I understand it is extremely smelly at the pumpout station.

A cassette  has [presumably] a hgher concentration of chemicals, I'm not sure what else one could add other than wee / poo, toilet blockage are once in a lifetime experience!

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10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think it is a big tank which is emptied by a tanker and treated as hazardous waste, not as organic waste, but I may be wrong.

I am sure it is not connected to the main drains , in fact the house sewage goes to the sewage treatment station, not directly in to the sea, which is why the toilet goes to a seperate system to the kitchen sink.

Do you want to try that again?

All black water from a house, ie toilet, showers and sinks , goes into the same system.

Storm water from roofs and paves areas goes into a separate system. 

Just now, LadyG said:

But that only works if we all agree to do that, and also to empty it pdq in to the sanitation station, which would very soon become extremely bio-acvtive,

The additive must be there to prevent natural bio-activity.

A tank is sort of sealed, but I understand it is extremely smelly at the pumpout station.

A cassette  has [presumably] a hgher concentration of chemicals, I'm not sure what else one could add other than wee / poo, toilet blockage are once in a lifetime experience!

Wrong again.

  • Greenie 1
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7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

A tank is sort of sealed, but I understand it is extremely smelly at the pumpout station.

Only if there is a leak, either at a connection or in a pipe.

Over the years I must have experienced hundreds of pump outs and only a few have been smelly.

Usually the smell eminates from dump through toiletc when flushed, usually because the boat uses blue, rather than yeast or a biological washing liquid as an additive.

I drilled a hole in the holding tank of my macerator system to accommodate the sensor for a gauge and I was surprised by the relative lack of smell, although I don't use any additives at all.

Edited by cuthound
To add the last sentance.
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9 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Do you want to try that again?

All black water from a house, ie toilet, showers and sinks , goes into the same system.

Storm water from roofs and paves areas goes into a separate system. 

Black water is toilet, and grey water is from from sinks and washing machines, I was thinking about private septic tanks, I agree, Scottish water sticks it all in to one pipe, but the cassette amd the holding tank are black, we can agree on that..............

Edited by LadyG
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23 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think it is a big tank which is emptied by a tanker and treated as hazardous waste, not as organic waste, but I may be wrong.

I know I'm taking a load of crap, but it gets you lot wound u doesn't it.

I am sure it is not connected to the main drains , in fact the house sewage goes to the sewage treatment station, not directly in to the sea, which is why the toilet goes to a seperate system to the kitchen sink.

 

Black and grey water go into the sewers

Storm water generally goes into a separate system

C&RT Elsan stations are (generally) connected into the main sewage system, except those in rural areas which will have a 'big tank / septic tank'

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Black water is toilet, and grey water is from from sinks and washing machines, I was thinking about private septic tanks, I agree, Scottish water sticks it all in to one pipe, but the cassette amd the holding tank are black, we can agree on that..............

Do you want to try that again.

This is my job so I know a thing or too about it!

Unless you have a grey water recycling system which is very rare, grey and black water goes into the same system and only surface water goes into a separate system. 

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

yes of course, but its not an environmentally friendly method of biological waste disposal, as having added hazardous chemical, it then becomes a hazardous waste.

If you flush you own loo at home, it enters a sewerage system, and is treated to become a less hazardous waste, a small amount of loo cleaner does not make it hazardous waste. (1)

I would like to add a chemical which is environmentaly friendly, , but everyone would have to use it, and that would be difficult to police. (2)

1/ Not all homes are on mains drainage! 

2/ There are plenty of non-hazardous, environmentally friendly treatments available now, and many caravan sites insist upon their use. Elsan even make one! From experience they are not as effective as the old "blue". Some (many) people now just use bio-washing sachets or liquid.

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15 minutes ago, cuthound said:

macerator system ...  I was surprised by the relative lack of smell, although I don't use any additives at all.

When we put in our macerator system we were advised not to use any additives. I agree with the above sentiments.

I always hesitate before using any cleaning aid in the pan -- I tell myself that Ecover is probably all right ...  no smells yet, so that seems OK.

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36 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think it is a big tank which is emptied by a tanker and treated as hazardous waste, not as organic waste, but I may be wrong.

I am sure it is not connected to the main drains , in fact the house sewage goes to the sewage treatment station, not directly in to the sea, which is why the toilet goes to a seperate system to the kitchen sink.

I don't know where you live, but that certainly is NOT the case here!

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1 minute ago, Graham Davis said:

1/ Not all homes are on mains drainage! 

2/ There are plenty of non-hazardous, environmentally friendly treatments available now, and many caravan sites insist upon their use. Elsan even make one! From experience they are not as effective as the old "blue". Some (many) people now just use bio-washing sachets or liquid.

I was sceptical about biological products until recently, I happened up a small quantity of hospital grade bio washing liquid. Used it (30ccs: at a time) and smells vanished. I get fed all sorts of eastern foods - so it was always very smelly. I'm running out and as it's very expensive, I'm going to try an "Oxygen" product as discussed on here a year ago.

The idea is that bio products use oxygen generating natural substances, that either get to the smelly anaerobic bacteria before they do their work or ?smother the bacteria, stopping them smelling... Either-which-way it works AND I was a fully-paid-up sceptic (there's a sort of pun in there).

Traditional products just kill everything and the nasty bits of them are left. You put down a relatively large dose of said Blue - so that's more to enter the system.

In an Elsan you need something strong as some of the effluent is recycled into the bowl (It used to be...). Fresh water in a pump out or macerator loo.

 

   

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15 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

When we put in our macerator system we were advised not to use any additives. I agree with the above sentiments.

I always hesitate before using any cleaning aid in the pan -- I tell myself that Ecover is probably all right ...  no smells yet, so that seems OK.

We use a very small amount of disinfectant on a cloth to clean our bowl. Nothing else.

We never get any smells from the tank.

Our friend with exactly the same boat and set up uses Blue and his toilet is hanging.  You don't want to be moored within 100m of him when he flushes the loo. 

2 minutes ago, mross said:

This page from CaRT implies that Elsan points are holding tanks and not connected to the sewers.  https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/boating-services/water-points-and-sewage-disposal

I think it highly unlikely that Elsan or 'Chemical Disposal Points' could be connected to the sewers.

Me too.  The chemicals react with the treatment plants.

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4 minutes ago, mross said:

This page from CaRT implies that Elsan points are holding tanks and not connected to the sewers.  https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/boating-services/water-points-and-sewage-disposal

I think it highly unlikely that Elsan or 'Chemical Disposal Points' could be connected to the sewers.

I cannot see that on the page you have linked to.

I can only assume that you mean where they say 'they don't have enough capacity for pump-outs' - This has always been taken to mean, that the toilet bowl that is used as an elsan cannot cope with 100s of litres in a 'couple of minutes' that a pump-out pump provides and will overflow - as shown by pictures posted by Dean some time ago.

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I'm trying to use environmentally friendly stuff in my pump out tank, but because we may not use the boat for weeks or months, I think it's doomed to failure.  The biological treatments need oxygen.  If the tank is topped up regularly with human waste it will stay aerobic, but once a tank is short of oxygen the anaerobic bacteria take over and awful smells result.  I have a lot of experience with aerobic sewage treatment plants on ships.  These had to be continually aerated with compressors.  A failure of the compressor(s) would quickly lead to the tanks going anaerobic and smelly.  

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I cannot see that on the page you have linked to.

I can only assume that you mean where they say 'they don't have enough capacity for pump-outs' - This has always been taken to mean, that the toilet bowl that is used as an elsan cannot cope with 100s of litres in a 'couple of minutes' that a pump-out pump provides and will overflow - as shown by pictures posted by Dean some time ago.

Yes, that's the bit I interpreted to mean the tank had limited capacity.  You may be right but probably are not. :)  

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23 minutes ago, mross said:

I think it highly unlikely that Elsan or 'Chemical Disposal Points' could be connected to the sewers.

In both of the two marinas that we used to use regularly when we had WotEver (Springwood and Trinity) I can assure you that the Elsans ended up in Severn Trent's sewerage system. It may not be my business like Rachel's but I do have friends who work for Severn Trent and I'm pretty aware of the various treatments that all sewage waste (black grey and otherwise) is subject to. There are settlement tanks, chemical treatments, sedimenters and polishing beds. All of those systems combine with dilution as Alan described earlier. 

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30 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

The idea is that bio products use oxygen generating natural substances, that either get to the smelly anaerobic bacteria before they do their work or ?smother the bacteria, stopping them smelling... Either-which-way it works AND I was a fully-paid-up sceptic (there's a sort of pun in there).

This. You only need proper oxygen, ventilation. A proper poo tank will have good ventilation to allow aerobic digestion which isn't smelly as opposed to anaerobic digestion which produces small gases.

 

18 minutes ago, mross said:

I'm trying to use environmentally friendly stuff in my pump out tank, but because we may not use the boat for weeks or months, I think it's doomed to failure.

If you allow ventilation the bugs will continue to do their thing. 

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Households use Toilet Duck, neat Bleach, descalers and all sorts of other chemicals - it doesn't make the sewers into 'hazardous waste'.

One of the biggest problems that water treatment companies have to deal with is excessive levels of synthetic oestrogen. Formaldehyde is a tiny problem which is simply dealt with. 

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20 minutes ago, mross said:

I'm trying to use environmentally friendly stuff in my pump out tank, but because we may not use the boat for weeks or months, I think it's doomed to failure.  The biological treatments need oxygen.  If the tank is topped up regularly with human waste it will stay aerobic, but once a tank is short of oxygen the anaerobic bacteria take over and awful smells result.  I have a lot of experience with aerobic sewage treatment plants on ships.  These had to be continually aerated with compressors.  A failure of the compressor(s) would quickly lead to the tanks going anaerobic and smelly.  

I used the hospital laundry stuff last year and left the boat until Christmas (after giving it a dose) There was only a slight smell when we returned. I do have a vent pipe and always give the tank a stir (you get used to it) before pumping out and flush the tank with fresh water - as much as I can get away with - until the money (nearly) runs out.

 

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4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Households use Toilet Duck, neat Bleach, descalers and all sorts of other chemicals - it doesn't make the sewers into 'hazardous waste'.

One of the biggest problems that water treatment companies have to deal with is excessive levels of synthetic oestrogen. Formaldehyde is a tiny problem which is simply dealt with. 

Not all if them.

All we use at home is a dot of disinfectant the same as we use on the boat.

But then again I see the end results so know what happens at the other end. Most are ignorant to what happens to their waste.

28 minutes ago, mross said:

I'm trying to use environmentally friendly stuff in my pump out tank, but because we may not use the boat for weeks or months, I think it's doomed to failure.  The biological treatments need oxygen.  If the tank is topped up regularly with human waste it will stay aerobic, but once a tank is short of oxygen the anaerobic bacteria take over and awful smells result.  I have a lot of experience with aerobic sewage treatment plants on ships.  These had to be continually aerated with compressors.  A failure of the compressor(s) would quickly lead to the tanks going anaerobic and smelly.  

 Dont use anything. 

It will settle down into its own rhythm. 

It will take a few flushes through after using say blue. But will settle down to be smell free even after periods of inactivity. 

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