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BSC time


Arthur Marshall

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Four years ago, I had my boat rewired (battery to control panel) as the wiring had been there for about forty years and was looking somewhat tired.  The guy also did the BSC at the same time, and obviously passed his own electrical work.

The inspector this year didn't like the look of it much, asked for a report and the electrician has just basically condemned the whole lot and is going to rip it all out and start again. I've no complaint about that as once things started being explained as to what was missing or wrong it's going to be the cheapest way to put things right.  But I can't believe that standards have changed quite so much over four years so seem to have been seriously ripped off by the original guy (who was fully qualified as a boat electrician and had a first rate rep), who has now moved area so isn't available to put it right.

This is obviously going to cost me a bomb on top of the few hundred quid I paid the first bloke - so am I justified in sending him a strongly worded complaint?  No doubt he'll just say he did it to the standards at the time and tell me to get lost.

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I'm not sure that the wiring standards have changed, what has is the surveyor.

I had a surveyor pass my boat, and 4 years later it failed as it had no RCD.

The RCD is an 'advisory' but the last surveyor decided it was mandatory and refused to issue a BSSC until one was installed. Having paid in advance I had little option, so nipped down to Screwfix, installed one and the surveyor returned a couple of days later and issued the BSSC.

 

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I do not like the way that BSC is going .Risk of death then Mandatory absolutely agree but advisory that inspectors can fail you on No way remove them keep it simple and relevant  Too many are now charging over the top prices and big money for a retest too Price should be set by BSC for the actual test with travel charge a seperate issue.

 

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1 minute ago, b0atman said:

Price should be set by BSC for the actual test with travel charge a separate issue

I think it's perfectly fair for an inspector to charge for travel time and time on site -- and at the same hourly rate too. It's still his (or her) time you are buying. You are preventing him/her from doing anything else for all those hours.

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It's not just the inspector this time although i am well aware that they vary in their requirements and pickiness..  Apparently the wiring should be supported (it isn't), sleeved (it isn't), there's no grommet where it passes through the metal hull, several of the wires are the wrong gauge.  Apparently there should be fuses of some kind somewhere or other on the heavy duty cables, which there aren't.  There may well be other things wrong too which I ddn't pick up on.

Edited by Arthur Marshall
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2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

I think it's perfectly fair for an inspector to charge for travel time and time on site -- and at the same hourly rate too. It's still his (or her) time you are buying. You are preventing him/her from doing anything else for all those hours.

Have you read my post ?

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3 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

No written report, or at least a check list? At my last BSS exam the examiner used a proforma and sent me a copy electronically (along with his very reasonable bill!).

Nope. I was a bit surprised.  We used to get a full list of what was checked and how it added up.  I got nothing except an email, and that only when I complained.

Maybe you do need all sorts of protective devices if you're running a stack of washing machines, but all I've got is half a dozen lights, two water pumps, a 9 inch TV and a car radio. It's all getting a bit out of hand - certainly a long way from where it was when I bought the old tub in the eighties.

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Could be worse, could be forklift truck training. Some training firms tailor-make the course and certificate so its not transferrable to another firm (to stop the drivers leaving for a better job once qualified), or offer "generic" training as an alternative.

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4 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Nope. I was a bit surprised.  We used to get a full list of what was checked and how it added up.  I got nothing except an email, and that only when I complained.

Maybe you do need all sorts of protective devices if you're running a stack of washing machines, but all I've got is half a dozen lights, two water pumps, a 9 inch TV and a car radio. It's all getting a bit out of hand - certainly a long way from where it was when I bought the old tub in the eighties.

You need protective devices for the cables  no matter how few devices you got, if they are missing then that's bad.  Is the control panel the fuse panel?  If so then what is currently wrong with the wiring to that ?  

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9 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's not just the inspector this time although i am well aware that they vary in their requirements and pickiness..  Apparently the wiring should be supported (it isn't), sleeved (it isn't), there's no grommet where it passes through the metal hull, several of the wires are the wrong gauge.  Apparently there should be fuses of some kind somewhere or other on the heavy duty cables, which there aren't.  There may well be other things wrong too which I ddn't pick up on.

When we bought our previous boat in 2008, one of the BSS issues that needed to be corrected up front was that the wire to the head.light needed to be sleeved as it passed through the cab side. Nothing recent there.

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4 minutes ago, Robbo said:

You need protective devices for the cables  no matter how few devices you got, if they are missing then that's bad.  Is the control panel the fuse panel?  If so then what is currently wrong with the wiring to that ?  

Yes, I meant the fuse panel.  I don't really know what's wrong with it except that the wiring is such a mess you can't really see what's going on in there.  I got the impression that there should be something fusaloid (should such a word exist) between the battery and the main isolator switches, and there isn't. They are cheap switches and she wants to replace them with better quality ones, but I would presume that's up to me (though if rewiring has to be done, they might as well do that too). Apart from that, it's just a jumble of wires all the same colour, which struck me as odd at the time because originally they weren't, so you could tell what was going where and now you can't.  If the main live fed to the panel should be a heavy duty cable, it isn't.  The earth, however, is.

Experts (electricians, engineers) all talk a language that those of us who don't know that much about stuff can't follow.  We have to assume they are doing a decent job and aren't ripping us off, but the evidence of the BSC I think is rather opposed to that.

It feels like it's back to the early days of the Cert, when you did stuff to your boat which by the next test you found out you didn't have to and so on.  Oddly, this is the first time the boat has ever failed the Cert, as well as it being the only time I've spent a considerable sum getting it up to what I thought was the standard.

 

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Sounds to me like the current lot are having a bit of a game. You don't 'condemn the wiring' for the BSC you have a number of points that don't pass. Last time i looked there was no requirement for a fuse between batteries and isolater and if there is now it's an easy fit. Fuse ratings are easily changed and the quality of switches is neither here nor there. Bulkhead grommet can be done with a bit of slit hosepipe  

Sounds to me like you either need a 2nd opinion or to bring some detail to this thread so advice can be given. 

If your electrics are simple like you say and they work then the actions to make them compliant shouldn't cost too much. 

First off is to break down the failure checklist into its components. 

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1 hour ago, hounddog said:

First off is to break down the failure checklist into its components. 

Agreed.

It needs a fuse, fit one. It needs a grommet, fit one (or a bit of sleeving). It needs support, fit a few cable ties.

It certainly sounds like the original job was somewhat shoddy but 'ripping it out and starting again' seems excessive. 

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32 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Agreed.

It needs a fuse, fit one. It needs a grommet, fit one (or a bit of sleeving). It needs support, fit a few cable ties.

It certainly sounds like the original job was somewhat shoddy but 'ripping it out and starting again' seems excessive. 

Although a lot of times it's just easier to rip out and fit correctly, especially if there is quite a few things wrong.  Ofcourse what the best option is, is almost impossible to advise from afar.

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15 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Although a lot of times it's just easier to rip out and fit correctly, especially if there is quite a few things wrong.  Ofcourse what the best option is, is almost impossible to advise from afar.

I think that's the electrician's point, which I have to accept.  When I said the wiring had been condemned I exaggerated somewhat - the inspector wasn't happy with it and wanted an electrician's report before he'd pass or fail it.  The rest is down to the electrician's response - they were expecting just to replace a couple of wires, support and sleeve it, so the litany of faults they seem to have found surprised them.  When I get their estimate for the work I'll query anything that I think may not be necessary, but I'd rather be future proofed than have to go through all this again.

My undercurrent of feeling is that all this is crap and unnecessary - the blasted boat survived for about forty years with its original wiring with no problems.  I can see why you'd need a bit of complexity on the latest hitech boats, but on something with just a few items on 12 volts it seems ludicrous.

 

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3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I think that's the electrician's point, which I have to accept.  When I said the wiring had been condemned I exaggerated somewhat - the inspector wasn't happy with it and wanted an electrician's report before he'd pass or fail it.  The rest is down to the electrician's response - they were expecting just to replace a couple of wires, support and sleeve it, so the litany of faults they seem to have found surprised them.  When I get their estimate for the work I'll query anything that I think may not be necessary, but I'd rather be future proofed than have to go through all this again.

My undercurrent of feeling is that all this is crap and unnecessary - the blasted boat survived for about forty years with its original wiring with no problems.  I can see why you'd need a bit of complexity on the latest hitech boats, but on something with just a few items on 12 volts it seems ludicrous.

 

The red highlighted bit doesn't sound right - a BSS tester can't ask for further tests/reports/whatever, its his job to look at it and pass or fail based on what he sees and tests.

 

The ONLY exception is a quirk of the reulations due to gas safety rules and breaking open a test point on a liveaboard boat, but there's NOTHING in the electrical or any other area where he can demand further reports etc.

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And let me guess the electrician who did the report was recommended by the Bss inspector.....

does smack of some over egging of the issues at least. Can you post the report on here and then you can get some comments or suggestions some of which might be helpful ;-)

Take pictures with your phone and post if you can.

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