Jump to content

EA, and C&RT


LadyG

Featured Posts

I'm trying to buy a boat, am at the stage of any boat, lol.

But, I want to pick up the boat from where it is currently, buy a licence and potter about until that licence expires, then probably move to another licence district, thus ensuring I do not pay two authorities simultaneously.

I find the C&RT waffle reasonably comprehensible, ie it runs for 12 months [not sure when it starts or stops.]

The C&RT have winter moorings, which may or may not be at a particular position., one has to bid blind [in order to ensure maxprofit   market forces lol], how will I know about them? where they are, etc etc.

C&RT think that is ok to change the rules every year, autonomously. There does not appear to be consultation with Continuous Cruisers even though they are a distinct section of licence payers.

The EA website , boating, is incomprehensible.

Help!

PS I d like a surveyor, for a boat on the Thames, west of Oxford.

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm trying to buy a boat, am at the stage of any boat, lol.

But, I want to pick up the boat from where it is currently, buy a licence and potter about until that licence expires, then probably move to another licence district, thus ensuring I do not pay two authorities simultaneously.

I find the C&RT waffle reasonably comprehensible, ie it runs for 12 months [not sure when it starts or stops.]

The C&RT have winter moorings, which may or may not be at a particular position., one has to bid blind [in order to ensure maxprofit   market forces lol], how will I know about them? where they are, etc etc.

C&RT think that is ok to change the rules every year, autonomously. There does not appear to be consultation with Continuous Cruisers even though they are a distinct section of licence payers.

The EA website , boating, is incomprehensible.

Help!

PS I d like a surveyor, for a boat on the Thames, west of Oxford.

In short CART do not change their rules every year and are very easy to comply with. Tom Keeling is your man for the survey.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm trying to buy a boat, am at the stage of any boat, lol.

But, I want to pick up the boat from where it is currently, buy a licence and potter about until that licence expires, then probably move to another licence district, thus ensuring I do not pay two authorities simultaneously.

I find the C&RT waffle reasonably comprehensible, ie it runs for 12 months [not sure when it starts or stops.]

The C&RT have winter moorings, which may or may not be at a particular position., one has to bid blind [in order to ensure maxprofit   market forces lol], how will I know about them? where they are, etc etc.

C&RT think that is ok to change the rules every year, autonomously. There does not appear to be consultation with Continuous Cruisers even though they are a distinct section of licence payers.

The EA website , boating, is incomprehensible.

Help!

PS I d like a surveyor, for a boat on the Thames, west of Oxford.

EA licences registrations run from January to December(so if you buy one now, you have to pay a full year) after September you get it for half price. Not a good deal either rway. It's because the registrations are 'set in stone' and need an Act of Parliament to change. Not going to happen....

If your boat is not on the river, you can buy a short term licence (never understood why short term is a Licence, but annual is a Registration), you can buy a day, week, month, licence. It has been known for folks to be 'creative' about declaring that the boat is not already on the water - such as on the Oxford or K&A at the time...

EA doesn't own the River - just the water on top... So there's no concept of permanent moorings (with some tiny exceptions). However there are moorings in marinas - just as on the canals.

When cruising - other than the few EA overnight moorings, any mooring is in "the gift of" whoever owns the bankside. Some may charge, some   say 'go away' some say nothing. If no notice you can probably moor overnight, that is if you can get near to the bank.

The above is  a simplification.

 

Is that good enough for a start?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, so  if I anchor in the river, there is never a charge?

is the River, any river , or is there more than one River, so an EA registration is only fror one river? How many Rivers are there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

ok, so  if I anchor in the river, there is never a charge?

is the River, any river , or is there more than one River, so an EA registration is only fror one river? How many Rivers are there?

No - there can be a mooring charge on any river - it is up to the landowner whether he charges or not. Dropping anchor is till anchoring up to the owners property, as their rights are (normally) from bank to the centre line of the river, and then the owner on the 'other side' is that bank to centre line.

 

There are 20+ Navigation Authorities - many of which have control of certain Rivers - C&RT and the EA are the two largest controlling over 50% of the inland waterways between them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and if I just blunder about, claiming ignorance if challenged,  sheltering offside under willows, can I blunder on till I find a nice place, and then pay ?

Is Continuous Cruiser, a legal entity, relevant to any uk water, asking cos I want to travel, rivers, canals and Great Ouse. but not all in one year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

and if I just blunder about, claiming ignorance if challenged,  sheltering offside under willows, can I blunder on till I find a nice place, and then pay ?

Is Continuous Cruiser, a legal entity, relevant to any uk water, asking cos I want to travel, rivers, canals and Great Ouse. but not all in one year. 

You could always get a gold license 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, OldGoat said:

 

If your boat is not on the river, you can buy a short term licence (never understood why short term is a Licence, but annual is a Registration), you can buy a day, week, month, licence. It has been known for folks to be 'creative' about declaring that the boat is not already on the water - such as on the Oxford or K&A at the time...Eion.

 

 

 

So, I thought , that Thames is EA,  K&A a canal, and C&RT .

I am not sure about creativity, any boat is on water that belongs to someone, so should be"registered"

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

You could always get a gold license 

yes, but the whole point is to save paying excessively, I don't mind travelling from one area to another, but as I am not using any additional total resources, I object to paying twice over. I am quite happy to stay in one area, pay for a year, then move to another area and pay for a year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

Is Continuous Cruiser, a legal entity,

There is no such legal term as 'Continuous Cruiser' this is a 'popular' name for the legal term 'Boat without a home mooring'

 

See the 1995 British Waterways Act section 17.

 

The concept of a 'continuous Cruiser' (boat without a home mooring) is (I believe) unique to C&RT and no other navigation authority will tolerate boaters who do not pay for a 'Home Mooring' from which you cruise, then return to days / weeks / months later.

31 minutes ago, LadyG said:

So, I thought , that Thames is EA,  K&A a canal, and C&RT .

I am not sure about creativity, any boat is on water that belongs to someone, so should be"registered"

yes, but the whole point is to save paying excessively, I don't mind travelling from one area to another, but as I am not using any additional total resources, I object to paying twice over. I am quite happy to stay in one area, pay for a year, then move to another area and pay for a year.

No problem to do that - just pay for a mooring for 12 months, cruise the waters of your choice, move onto alternative waters, pay for a 12 month mooring, cruise, repeat - eventually get onto C&RT waters where you do not need to pay for a home mooring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't see any problem? We have a CRT licence. We have been on the Thames for a week last month, will be on it again next week. We had a week in Bristols floating harbour a couple of weeks ago. You simply buy a licence as required, it's very simple. I am happy to pay as the waterways need funding and boaters contributions are an important, though not huge part of this. Ian.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ty, I have found a bit of clarification here:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/licensing-your-boat/choosing-and-buying-your-licence/short-term-visitor-licences

and it seems I absolutely must buy my licence online, or pay twice the price, so no pootling about on CRT water still "discovered". So it seems forward planning is required. 

I think my main source of confusion was that CCs are found in and around London, which in my naivety, I thought was ..... a river, but of course, it is part of the CART , though some of it is  EA, I think.

 

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

ty, I have found a bit of clarification here:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/licensing-your-boat/choosing-and-buying-your-licence/short-term-visitor-licences

and it seems I absolutely must buy my licence online, or pay twice the price, so no pootling about on CRT till "discovered"

 

You can buy and renew CART licences by post - we always do - though if you are no longer going to have a home address, on line should be easier for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

so no pootling about on CRT water still "discovered".

Shame on you - that reads as if you are already looking a ways to avoid paying your dues.

So you 'float about for a month' without notifying C&RT you are on their waters, decide to leave and go onto another authorities waters - are you going to phone C&RT and say - "by the way, I have been on your waters for a month so I owe you a one-month visitors licence fee", or are you going to tell them - "Ya-boo, I've been on your waters for a month and you didn't catch me - you can whistle for your money".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Shame on you - that reads as if you are already looking a ways to avoid paying your dues.

So you 'float about for a month' without notifying C&RT you are on their waters, decide to leave and go onto another authorities waters - are you going to phone C&RT and say - "by the way, I have been on your waters for a month so I owe you a one-month visitors licence fee", or are you going to tell them - "Ya-boo, I've been on your waters for a month and you didn't catch me - you can whistle for your money".

The latter scenario is unlikely.

We have no evidence that Lady G is intending to avoid paying due fees for her navigation.

It may be of interest that on the Middle Level Navigation (East from Peterborough to the Great Ouse, with a few branches to places such as Ramsey) no such fees are payable. I'm not sure if there are other waterways in Britain which are fee-free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DaveandDebby said:

Then LadyG needs to word her posts more carefully, because that's how it read to me.

It doesn't read that way to me. She said: "No pootling about on CRT waters till discovered".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Shame on you - that reads as if you are already looking a ways to avoid paying your dues.

So you 'float about for a month' without notifying C&RT you are on their waters, decide to leave and go onto another authorities waters - are you going to phone C&RT and say - "by the way, I have been on your waters for a month so I owe you a one-month visitors licence fee", or are you going to tell them - "Ya-boo, I've been on your waters for a month and you didn't catch me - you can whistle for your money".

No, I m not avoiding paying, but the boat I am looking at currently is not on CART [as far as I can work out.

I am not sure how long I would navigate that waterway,  before going to another, which would be the CART, its all rather academic, it is very difficult to find out how much everything costs, plus availability, and I need to have some sort of plan, and that includes not paying more than I need , includes finding a nice winter mooring from December to March.

As there would be no licence on the window [is this really a criminal offence!], it would be picked up by any lock keeper, and so, not long before someone turned up.

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Athy said:

It doesn't read that way to me. She said: "No pootling about on CRT waters till discovered".

She actually said "So no pootling about till discovered", which reads to me as if she'd happily pootle till she was discovered if she could.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, DaveandDebby said:

Then LadyG needs to word her posts more carefully, because that's how it read to me.

I was assuming, in my naivety, that someone would come along from CART, and we would discuss my licence, and apply retrospectively,  since by then I  would be better able to decide what I  am going to do for the remainder of the year. It seems that is a bad plan since by then it costs twice as much. I am just trying to find out as much information as possible.

 

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, DaveandDebby said:

She actually said "So no pootling about till discovered", which reads to me as if she'd happily pootle till she was discovered if she could.

Gosh, you're in a suspicious mood this morning! Let us not brand the lady as a potential arch-criminal of the inland waterways before she's even bought her boat.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, LadyG said:

As there would be no licence on the window [is this really a criminal offence!], it would be picked up by any lock keeper, and so, not long before someone turned up.

It doesn't work like that.

 

Firstly you are breaking the law by being on the water without a licence*

Secondly the Lock Keeper (if there is one) may well refuse you access to the lock without a licence.

Thirdly (if on C&RT waters) someone doesn't turn up to 'discuss' your licence, they note you are unlicensed (by the boat registration number, not by the absence of the 'disc' in the window) and 'slap you with an enforcement notice'.

 

If the boat has not been on C&RT waters (and you intend to use C&RT waters) it may / will need registering with C&RT (ie they issue a 'number plate').

Fill a form in online and pay £20, or do it y phone and 'card'.

 

* It may be of great assistance if you actually explained where the boat is - it may be on waters that don't need a licence and you could stay there and pootle about to your hearts content.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Athy said:

 

It may be of interest that on the Middle Level Navigation (East from Peterborough to the Great Ouse, with a few branches to places such as Ramsey) no such fees are payable. I'm not sure if there are other waterways in Britain which are fee-free.

Aha, yes it is of great interest, I have already bought "The River Great Ouse and Tributaries",  as that area is on my to do list for 2018, I get the impression the MLN would be off the beaten track in the height of summer, and stuffed full of wildlife, two things I should enjoy.

The boat has a CART registration number, so I assume I just get a CART licence when I go on their water.

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.