Heartland Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Like Purton there were some abandoned craft near the entrance to the Lydney Canal Were they ever identified? There was a longboat/ narrow boat there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanM Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Looking on Google Maps at what I assume to be the correct location there's a few shapes in the mud but nothing substantial. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Lydney/@51.7096419,-2.5092077,187m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4871a332e8ed4be3:0x8c2baea640d7e73e!8m2!3d51.72913!4d-2.530504 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Heartland said: Like Purton there were some abandoned craft near the entrance to the Lydney Canal Were they ever identified? There was a longboat/ narrow boat there Very good picture, haven't seen that before. The motor is ex GUCCCo "Pleione" which broke off its tow and ended up there, it has since been wrecked and a salvage attempt many years ago pulled it to bits, today only the engine beds are identifiable at certain tides. Theres plenty of "spare parts" in the rocks, ie knees etc. Alan Brown (late) identified the boat from a recovered gunwale gauging marker plate. The three pictures below date from the mid 1980's, today only the engine beds are visible (usually visible on google earth). Last image shows the engine beds in the mud from todays GE image. Edited June 22, 2017 by Laurence Hogg add info correct name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartland Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Thanks Lauremce, that does help with the image identification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 4 hours ago, Laurence Hogg said: Very good picture, haven't seen that before. The motor is ex GUCCCo "Praesepe" which broke off its tow and ended up there, it has since been wrecked and a salvage attempt many years ago pulled it to bits, today only the engine beds are identifiable at certain tides. Theres plenty of "spare parts" in the rocks, ie knees etc. Alan Brown (late) identified the boat from a recovered gunwale gauging marker plate. The three pictures below date from the mid 1980's, today only the engine beds are visible (usually visible on google earth). Last image shows the engine beds in the mud from todays GE image. 4 hours ago, Heartland said: Thanks Lauremce, that does help with the image identification The image at the top of this thread shows PLEONE beached at Lydney, and the gauge plate removed by Alan Brown was taken from between the 'towing studs' - a placement that was common to many G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. motors. PRAESEPE became T. and S. Element's MAY QUEEN, although the last observation I have of this boats was when it was in private ownership in 1968, sunk at Gas Street Basin, Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Apologies! Pete is dead right it is Pleione I had misread the data!!! (must be age related ;( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 Sadly the vessel in question is the RSCB workboat Venus On 22/06/2017 at 10:50, Heartland said: Like Purton there were some abandoned craft near the entrance to the Lydney Canal Were they ever identified? There was a longboat/ narrow boat there I'd love a copy of this image for the newly formed link the Lydney Hulks coming soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 Is this negative presented here.... the wrong way around....how splendid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 I have a dozen photos I took of the remains in 1975, if you PM me. This was the most complete boat then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Fantastic I would love to see them... And the fine vessel shown is the Newport built Severn Trow Jonadab part of which isnow to be found 2 miles across the river at the northern extreme of the Purton Hulks see www.friendsofpurton.org.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Hooton Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 almost all the vessels have been identified and metal plaques installed on the banks by "friends of purton" they have a very good website with a comprehensive history of the graveyard. well worth a look. oops wrong side of the river apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Philip Hooton said: almost all the vessels have been identified and metal plaques installed on the banks by "friends of purton" they have a very good website with a comprehensive history of the graveyard. well worth a look. oops wrong side of the river apologies It's ok Phil I'm the Chairman of the Friends of Purton...... So thank you so much for the plug...... For clarity 36 vessels within the Purton collection have been marked with plaques whilst a further 5 have been erected along The Sharpness to Gloucester canal.... What I'm now involved with is haveing the remains of Lydneys 24 marked in a simular way so am desperate to secure sponsorship for them.... Moreover I am currently compiling a Lydney section on the Friends website.... See www.friendsofpurton.org.uk for info and contact details..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) On 12/03/2019 at 21:14, Paul Barnett said: Sadly the vessel in question is the RSCB workboat Venus On 13/03/2019 at 10:01, Paul Barnett said: It's ok Phil I'm the Chairman of the Friends of Purton...… What I'm now involved with is haveing the remains of Lydneys 24 marked in a simular way so am desperate to secure sponsorship for them.... Moreover I am currently compiling a Lydney section on the Friends website.... See www.friendsofpurton.org.uk for info and contact details..... The motor narrow boat beached at Lydney is absolutely not VENUS. If you add this detail to either your website or a storyboard of some description then you WILL BE GUILTY of re-writing history. This boat was positively identified on 26 September 1970 when its gauge plate was removed - and it is / was PLEONE. VENUS has a well documented and proven history and it still extant edit = I was the guardian of PLEONE's gauge plate for a few years, but I have no idea what happened to it once the person who removed / owned it passed away. Edited April 16, 2019 by pete harrison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 A little bit strong Pete and to be fair what she was called prior to being bought and used by the RSCB as VENUS - i can't say -but VENUS was her name (no pun) when she was beached and acknowledged as being beached in c. 1955 by her one time passenger and renowned River Severn River Engineer Fred Rowtham. All i am guilty of is reproducing historical fact - please forgive me - then again had her gauge plate have been left in-situ - my task may have been a little easier. Regardless i would be more than happy to consider your views Pete should you wish to present further evidence as like you im am most keen to accurately record this wonderful collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 I could of course be wrong - but Fred (the chap in the black trench coat, hat and pipe) would im sure have recognised his own work boats name or at least what she was called when he had use of her. 4 minutes ago, Paul Barnett said: Note in colour and the correct way round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, Paul Barnett said: A little bit strong Pete and to be fair what she was called prior to being bought and used by the RSCB as VENUS - i can't say -but VENUS was her name (no pun) when she was beached and acknowledged as being beached in c. 1955 by her one time passenger and renowned River Severn River Engineer Fred Rowtham. All i am guilty of is reproducing historical fact - please forgive me - then again had her gauge plate have been left in-situ - my task may have been a little easier. Regardless i would be more than happy to consider your views Pete should you wish to present further evidence as like you im am most keen to accurately record this wonderful collection. 5 minutes ago, Paul Barnett said: I could of course be wrong - but Fred (the chap in the black trench coat, hat and pipe) would im sure have recognised his own work boats name or at least what she was called when he had use of her. I am not disputing that VENUS was owned by the River Severn Catchment Board as it was sold to them by the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd, in September 1943, along with the butty MERAK for £1000. VENUS was named VENUS when built as is still named VENUS today. PLEONE came to the River Severn in 1949 following the nationalisation of the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd, narrow boat fleet on 01 January 1948. Prior to transfer PLEONE had been in storage at Stockley Dock and was in poor condition. PLEONE was named PLEONE when built and still carried its identifying gauge plate when beached at Lydney. You have the choice between a reference by an engineer who had numerous similar boats in his care or the reference made in a detailed diary and the removal of a gauge plate by one of the most respected narrow boat researchers of his time - and I have a photocopy of the diary and the gauge plate still exists, possibly in the C&RT Archives. I have been researching Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd, narrow boats for over 30 years, and my personal involvement with these boats goes back almost 50 years so my input is not casual 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 Hooray PH is back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pegg Posted April 16, 2019 Report Share Posted April 16, 2019 (edited) On 12/03/2019 at 21:45, Paul Barnett said: Is this negative presented here.... the wrong way around....how splendid I studied this when you made the claim originally and concluded that it wasn’t. It actually made we wonder if you were talking about the same boat that Ray (Heartland), Laurence and Pete had been talking about. Today’s posts confirm that you were referring to the same boat. On the assumption that Laurence Hogg’s photos of the engine beds in the mud are indeed those of Pleone they match well with the image from Google Earth that shows them lying upstream of the outlet from above the canal entrance lock into the estuary under the bridge (since modified by tidal defences) beneath the harbour branch railway. The view behind the boat in the images maps up with the distant view of the shoreline across the western side of the wide channel that exists downstream of Lydney. It doesn’t look right for a view facing upstream which would be across the channel to the flat land on the eastern bank. The water in the background doesn’t look like that of the main channel and with the orientation of the boat should Sharpness docks not be visible directly in line behind in your image if it is, as you claim, the right way round? JP Edited April 16, 2019 by Captain Pegg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 There is no doubt in your credentials Pete, forgive me should you have thought of me thinking otherwise, however like you, I have had more than a passing interest in not only the target vessel - but the entire collection of some 24 identified vessels thereon the Lydney foreshore. To this end I am overjoyed to receive your much valued information pertaining to the beached craft, which in turn has of course opened up a whole new avenue of investigation. As previously stated, my research has been guided by various references via the Fred Rowbotham and his understanding of the vessels under his command. That said may I state, I would be very happy to reconsider this very important source in the presence of the new information you have kindly provided. In line with this are you able to offer any of the following: 1) You state Venus remains - are you able to throw any further light on her sale and current whereabouts - possibly a photo or two would help immensely. 2) Regarding the Pleone, are you able to advise as per her journey from Stockley Dock, her former/owners and why/how she arrived at Lydney to be dumped. 3) Finally, are you aware of any photos of the Pleone during her working life on and off the bank. With this and as mentioned I would be immensely pleased to update the vessels identification whilst fully acknowledging your input and valued expertise. with fondest regards Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 Dear Capt'n Pegg Would you kindly be advised my colour image is one of an extensive set of photographs documenting the Lydney foreshore in the 1967 period and is correctly orientated as per. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paul Barnett said: There is no doubt in your credentials Pete, forgive me should you have thought of me thinking otherwise, however like you, I have had more than a passing interest in not only the target vessel - but the entire collection of some 24 identified vessels thereon the Lydney foreshore. To this end I am overjoyed to receive your much valued information pertaining to the beached craft, which in turn has of course opened up a whole new avenue of investigation. As previously stated, my research has been guided by various references via the Fred Rowbotham and his understanding of the vessels under his command. That said may I state, I would be very happy to reconsider this very important source in the presence of the new information you have kindly provided. In line with this are you able to offer any of the following: 1) You state Venus remains - are you able to throw any further light on her sale and current whereabouts - possibly a photo or two would help immensely. 2) Regarding the Pleone, are you able to advise as per her journey from Stockley Dock, her former/owners and why/how she arrived at Lydney to be dumped. 3) Finally, are you aware of any photos of the Pleone during her working life on and off the bank. With this and as mentioned I would be immensely pleased to update the vessels identification whilst fully acknowledging your input and valued expertise. with fondest regards Paul 1 - VENUS was sold to J.M. Jones, Gloucester for £75, but at this time I do not have a date of sale. The ongoing history of VENUS was published in Waterways World magazine November 1984 starting at page 42, compiled by Jerry Poole who bought VENUS from J.M. Jones before selling it on some time later in about 1967. VENUS is undergoing a prolonged restoration and can usually be found at either Puttenham or Marsworth top lock, both near Aylesbury - and interestingly has the same engine as was fitted when in full trade with the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. (the one that broke down requiring the 'jet propulsion' pump to be fitted), and I have historical documentation giving the engine serial number. Photographs of VENUS are best seen on the Historic Narrow Boat Club website (I can not create a link so look for 'historic boats' tab then Grand Union C C Co, then S - Z, then Venus). 2 - PLEONE was one of a number of redundant carrying narrow boats transferred to the south west in 1949, mostly due to their condition and required financial investment to return them to carrying condition. The journey is apparently documented within the C&RT Archive and involved a torturous passage of the Kennet and Avon Canal in 1949. PLEONE was built by E.G. Woods, Brentford with its butty PLEIADES at a cost of £1006.0.0 for the pair, and PLEONE was powered by a National 2DM 18hp diesel engine. PLEONE and PLEIADES were delivered to the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. on 06 December 1935. PLEONE was initially sold to Stanton Iron Works Company in December 1940 for £760.0.0, but was returned as unsatisfactory eleven months later. It is most likely that PLEONE was then put into storage at Stockley Dock as these small wooden boats were no longer in favour. On 01 January 1948 the canals were 'nationalised', and as the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. were a wholly owned subsidiary of the Grand Union Canal Company the boats remaining in this fleet also fell under Government ownership. As stated previously after assessment PLEONE, with several others. was transferred to the south west for use as a canal maintenance boat. My understand is that PLEONE was used for moving rocks intended for bank protection on the River Severn around Sharpness when it broke its tow, ending up at Lydney. 3 - I have two poor quality photographs of PLEONE taken in Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. days, but these are not mine to distribute. edit = I want no acknowledgment and have no desire to see my name published. My only quest is the distribution and publication of correct information Edited April 17, 2019 by pete harrison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Paul Barnett said: There is no doubt in your credentials Pete, forgive me should you have thought of me thinking otherwise, however like you, I have had more than a passing interest in not only the target vessel - but the entire collection of some 24 identified vessels thereon the Lydney foreshore. with fondest regards Paul I am intrigued by your term 'collection of some 24 identified vessels thereon the Lydney foreshore' Having lived in Bristol for 23 years (1985 - 2008) I spent quite some time at both Purton and Lydney. These surviving hulks never looked like a 'collection' to me but more like economical disposals of redundant craft under the guise of bank protection - bank protection being considerably cheaper than breaking them up. To my mind a 'collection' is something that is cared for, which until very recently is about as far from this case as is possible to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Barnett Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 Purton is formally recognized as the largest collection of this type of maritime assemblage and thus one might say - One mans rubbish is another mans collection - Once again thank you for your valued assistance and pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 This is the VENUS that was one of the prototypes from Harland & Wolff. Location is Middlewich, 1983. Pete, you are very welcome to copy, retain and distribute as you wish, they are images I took myself in '83. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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