About to Buy? Have you got it right?

[Dr Bob]

...stand by your beds...there's a Muppet about!

Thought I would put a few thoughts down about what boat we ended up with this year versus what we set out to buy....to help any prospective buyers who are at that stage of taking the plunge. Just before we handed over the deposit, we had a firm vision of what wanted but it didn’t quite work out that way.

We knew boats a bit, having lived on a plastic ocean going boat for 3 years sailing to the Med and back. We decided to find a boat where the G&T didn’t roll off at the slightest provocation.

After turning up at our first brokers, we realised it was important (to them – so probably not us) to have a list of wants and dislikes. A few months of research here, reading all the gen, and we had our list of, as they put it in business, 'Sacred Cows' – ie those things that are not negotiable. We'd seen a whole bunch of boats that helped us put these Sacred Cows together.

So what were we aiming for?

• A 56-58ft narrowboat. Biggest we could get that would go all over the network. Important to do the 'northern' canals.

• A cruiser stern. The back of the boat was the 'social' point on our plastic one.

• A reverse layout, as why would anyone want to walk down the stairs in wet gear straight into the bedroom

• A cassette toilet, as why would you want to sleep on top of a tank sloshing ….. about in the night.

• Must have a good shower and a solid fuel stove

Mid April and we saw our 'dream' boat at Hilperton Marina on the K&A. Ticked all the boxes – around our target price of £45K. Not yet listed. We delayed making an offer for a couple of days -thinking hard – but within a few hours of it being listed that weekend, it had gone for the offer price. Back then to the drawing board. A few weeks later and we saw the next one. A few grand less, but it was 63 ft, a standard layout and heaven forbid, a pump out toilet. We offered the same day. Not quite what we had set our sights on. It did have a good shower and a stove.

A few weeks later and we were then the proud owners of our new boat, so how did our choices go?

First of all the length. 63ft is wonderful. The extra space is great. We are getting a partial refit and the extra few feet mean lots of room for a dinette. The 'northern' canals can wait – and sound far to strenuous for now. Why on earth was <58ft important?

The cruiser stern works really well. Room for 3 at a pinch and I like the fact that the engine is out the back of the boat. There....that has alienated 50% of you.

Whilst unsure if the standard layout would work, that has proved a revelation. I think it really works to have the 'lounge' up at the front. On our plastic boat, the focal point was the companionway stairs and the further you went into the boat, the further away from the action you were. It is really nice to have the kitchen and living area forward – and looking forward – as it were. The bonus is SWMBO who gives sound advice (99% sound, 1% advice) cant be heard if she is down below and I am steering. There, that's another 50% of those of you who were left now gone!

Toilets!! I was very unsure about the pump out but the rest of the boat was so good. 24Hrs later I had changed my mind. For our first night on the boat we decided not to use the loo 'other than light stuff' until we had the tank pumped out. At 7.15am then on a cold Sunday morning, having been pushed out of bed to make the coffee, I walked up to the toilet block in the marina. At the Elsan point, there was a fellow boater, emptying his cassette. The realisation that that could be me in a weeks time hit me!! No way. Later that day, under the tuition of Ray T from this parish, we went up to Venter marina and had a pump out workshop. Sheridan took us through the finer points and it was no problem. No smell, no hassle. Easy. The tank is under the stairs – not under the bed so not a problem. Overall, very happy to have ended up with a pump out. Oh dear, thats another 50% gone so using the Dianne Abbot counting technique that probably means there are only two of you left reading......and you've probably already got a boat.

Funny how 3 out 5 of our 'Sacred Cows' have been turned on their heads. Hope this helps those of you who have your list and about to offer!!!

[OldGoat]

7 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

...stand by your beds...there's a Muppet about!

Thought I would put a few thoughts down about what boat we ended up with this year versus what we set out to buy....to help any prospective buyers who are at that stage of taking the plunge. Just before we handed over the deposit, we had a firm vision of what wanted but it didn’t quite work out that way.

We knew boats a bit, having lived on a plastic ocean going boat for 3 years sailing to the Med and back. We decided to find a boat where the G&T didn’t roll off at the slightest provocation.

After turning up at our first brokers, we realised it was important (to them – so probably not us) to have a list of wants and dislikes. A few months of research here, reading all the gen, and we had our list of, as they put it in business, 'Sacred Cows' – ie those things that are not negotiable. We'd seen a whole bunch of boats that helped us put these Sacred Cows together.

So what were we aiming for?

• A 56-58ft narrowboat. Biggest we could get that would go all over the network. Important to do the 'northern' canals.

• A cruiser stern. The back of the boat was the 'social' point on our plastic one.

• A reverse layout, as why would anyone want to walk down the stairs in wet gear straight into the bedroom

• A cassette toilet, as why would you want to sleep on top of a tank sloshing ….. about in the night.

• Must have a good shower and a solid fuel stove

Mid April and we saw our 'dream' boat at Hilperton Marina on the K&A. Ticked all the boxes – around our target price of £45K. Not yet listed. We delayed making an offer for a couple of days -thinking hard – but within a few hours of it being listed that weekend, it had gone for the offer price. Back then to the drawing board. A few weeks later and we saw the next one. A few grand less, but it was 63 ft, a standard layout and heaven forbid, a pump out toilet. We offered the same day. Not quite what we had set our sights on. It did have a good shower and a stove.

A few weeks later and we were then the proud owners of our new boat, so how did our choices go?

First of all the length. 63ft is wonderful. The extra space is great. We are getting a partial refit and the extra few feet mean lots of room for a dinette. The 'northern' canals can wait – and sound far to strenuous for now. Why on earth was <58ft important?

The cruiser stern works really well. Room for 3 at a pinch and I like the fact that the engine is out the back of the boat. There....that has alienated 50% of you.

Whilst unsure if the standard layout would work, that has proved a revelation. I think it really works to have the 'lounge' up at the front. On our plastic boat, the focal point was the companionway stairs and the further you went into the boat, the further away from the action you were. It is really nice to have the kitchen and living area forward – and looking forward – as it were. The bonus is SWMBO who gives sound advice (99% sound, 1% advice) cant be heard if she is down below and I am steering. There, that's another 50% of those of you who were left now gone!

Toilets!! I was very unsure about the pump out but the rest of the boat was so good. 24Hrs later I had changed my mind. For our first night on the boat we decided not to use the loo 'other than light stuff' until we had the tank pumped out. At 7.15am then on a cold Sunday morning, having been pushed out of bed to make the coffee, I walked up to the toilet block in the marina. At the Elsan point, there was a fellow boater, emptying his cassette. The realisation that that could be me in a weeks time hit me!! No way. Later that day, under the tuition of Ray T from this parish, we went up to Venter marina and had a pump out workshop. Sheridan took us through the finer points and it was no problem. No smell, no hassle. Easy. The tank is under the stairs – not under the bed so not a problem. Overall, very happy to have ended up with a pump out. Oh dear, thats another 50% gone so using the Dianne Abbot counting technique that probably means there are only two of you left reading......and you've probably already got a boat.

Funny how 3 out 5 of our 'Sacred Cows' have been turned on their heads. Hope this helps those of you who have your list and about to offer!!!

Well done! - You stood back and considered - perhaps the boat chose you.....

The extra five feet of CABIN space can and will doubtless come in very useful

Longer boats are less in demand (?) so you presumably got a lot more for your money

I agree tanks under the bed can be disturbing to the over sensitive - but then should they be boating, there's a lot more unpleasant things around. It's not a huge job to replace a pumpout with a cassette.

Folks are pehaps too rigid sometimes - and you're breaking the trend.

Have a greenie.

[mrsmelly]

In shorter version. All boat are a compromise. We are now living aboard our eigth boat it is our favourite so far but there are fors and against every aspect of each and every boat as a for instance 63 feet gives you a little extra space but excludes many cruising routes so why not buy 70 but then 63 foot mooring space is easier to squeeze into etc etc etc Enjoy your boat it will probably not be your last 

[Machpoint005]

Three things we have never regretted with our current boat (ours for ten years and counting).

1   Cruiser stern

2   48ft length - easier to handle, maintain, find a mooring for ...

2   Replacing Porta Potti with a proper macerator toilet. This is the 21st century, after all.

[Starcoaster]

Something MtB said to me years ago that I have found very accurate is that you won't really know what you want from your ideal boat until you have lived on one. Now that I know a few people who had new builds as their first boat, most have mentioned things they would change, have or not have if they did it again.

[MtB]

47 minutes ago, Starcoaster said:

Something MtB said to me years ago that I have found very accurate is that you won't really know what you want from your ideal boat until you have lived on one. Now that I know a few people who had new builds as their first boat, most have mentioned things they would change, have or not have if they did it again.

 

I got this from my Granddad. He said the first time around with a lot of research and planning you can get it roughly right, second time you get pretty damned close to right but still with minor niggles. Its one's third attempt where experience ensures one gets it spot on.

This applies to most things, not just getting a boat built. I think he was dead right. Anyone who claims to have got something dead right first attempt is kidding you, or themselves, in my (and his) opinion.

[Dr Bob]

thanks all for the comments. No I am sure we have not got the perfect boat but it has been a pleasant surprise that it worked out better than the spec suggested (when we first saw the details), but I am sure we will find out lots of things we dont like.

The comments on length are interesting. Mrsmelly's 70ft would only be 7ft longer and not restrict me anymore around the network, but in hindsight, I reckon 63ft is our limit. We are so inexperienced in steering on the cut, and turning a 63ft boat in a winding hole was difficult enough. We get the boat back from it's minor fit out this week so it will be good to be out an about in it again.

[cuthound]

Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of boating.

My introduction to boating was on camping boats, 70 foot ex-working boats with camp beds under the cloths. 70 foot boats are easier to steer,  but harder to manhandled. 

This was followed up by several years of hiring 40ish foot boats, 22 years of shared ownershop 58 foot boats, one conventional layout and one reverse layout. 

By then I thought I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted, but hadn't allowed for the "boat choosing me" factor.

We are very happy with DQ, but she has several features on my "not at any price" list, cross bed, not all porthole, bow thruster, not sprayfoam insulation etc.

Main thing is to enjoy what you have now and not fret over what you haven't other. 

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of boating.

My introduction to boating was on camping boats, 70 foot ex-working boats with camp beds under the cloths. 70 foot boats are easier to steer,  but harder to manhandled. 

This was followed up by several years of hiring 40ish foot boats, 22 years of shared ownershop 58 foot boats, one conventional layout and one reverse layout. 

By then I thought I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted, but hadn't allowed for the "boat choosing me" factor.

We are very happy with DQ, but she has several features on my "not at any price" list, cross bed, not all porthole, bow thruster, not sprayfoam insulation etc.

Main thing is to enjoy what you have now and not fret over what you haven't other. 

 

Totally agree.

Ultimately any boat will do, whatever features it has or doesn't, for cruising along the cut.

[junior]

I stopped reading a cruiser stern

[IanM]

41 minutes ago, junior said:

I stopped reading a cruiser stern

He did say he was inexperienced

 

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, IanM said:

He did say he was inexperienced

 

 

Just one day of boating in sub-zero temperatures on a cruiser will illustrate the joys of a trad stern!

Edited June 20, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[Alan de Enfield]

25 minutes ago, IanM said:

He did say he was inexperienced

 

 

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Just one day of boating in sub-zero temperatures on a cruiser will illustrate the joys of a trad stern!

But - floating on a muddy ditch in a tin-tube, even in mid winter, will have nothing to compare with a 'sea-going plastic' sailing boat, in 20knt winds, an 'open-helm',  the semi solidified spume lashing you in the face - sorts the men from the boys.

The OP had 3 years 'experience' living on such a boat.

 

There is no 'bad weather' just 'wrong clothing'.

[Dr Bob]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But - floating on a muddy ditch in a tin-tube, even in mid winter, will have nothing to compare with a 'sea-going plastic' sailing boat, in 20knt winds, an 'open-helm',  the semi solidified spume lashing you in the face - sorts the men from the boys.

The OP had 3 years 'experience' living on such a boat.

 

There is no 'bad weather' just 'wrong clothing'.

Absolutely, still got all our offshore gear. Base layers with high tech moisture control to let the perspiration out. Mid layers with high tech moisture control to let the perspiration out. Top layer with the ultimate in wind and water proofing. Put it all together and what have you got? A real pain when you need to wee!

We've not been on the cut in winter yet!

[Tonka]

23 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I got this from my Granddad. He said the first time around with a lot of research and planning you can get it roughly right, second time you get pretty damned close to right but still with minor niggles. Its one's third attempt where experience ensures one gets it spot on.

This applies to most things, not just getting a boat built. I think he was dead right. Anyone who claims to have got something dead right first attempt is kidding you, or themselves, in my (and his) opinion.

So which wife are you on ?

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Tonka said:

So which wife are you on ?

Bit personal init! 

[Calranthe]

On 2017-6-19 at 21:31, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I got this from my Granddad. He said the first time around with a lot of research and planning you can get it roughly right, second time you get pretty damned close to right but still with minor niggles. Its one's third attempt where experience ensures one gets it spot on.

This applies to most things, not just getting a boat built. I think he was dead right. Anyone who claims to have got something dead right first attempt is kidding you, or themselves, in my (and his) opinion.

Have to go against your Granddad on this one, first girl I went out with, love at first talk, still together 19 years later, first motorbike I owned Husqvana 400 cross, 4 years of my youth spent on fields and farms she could take me anywhere, wish I still had her (nothing I ever rode came close to how that bike felt), My first survival knife Marto-Brewer Explorer/Explora Survival Knife (that knife is well known as one of the best ever) almost impossible to get hold of now traded it for a 410 in 1984 :(. My first air rifle a HW77k best air rifle I ever owned still classed as one of the best reliable no matter what.

Maybe I was just lucky but none of the above items are rose tinted glass objects, you can look any of them up and people will tell you of how amazing they were, these days I have learnt to appreciate what I have and not be so quick to jump on to the next model.

 

[Naughty Cal]

9 hours ago, Calranthe said:

Have to go against your Granddad on this one, first girl I went out with, love at first talk, still together 19 years later, first motorbike I owned Husqvana 400 cross, 4 years of my youth spent on fields and farms she could take me anywhere, wish I still had her (nothing I ever rode came close to how that bike felt), My first survival knife Marto-Brewer Explorer/Explora Survival Knife (that knife is well known as one of the best ever) almost impossible to get hold of now traded it for a 410 in 1984 :(. My first air rifle a HW77k best air rifle I ever owned still classed as one of the best reliable no matter what.

Maybe I was just lucky but none of the above items are rose tinted glass objects, you can look any of them up and people will tell you of how amazing they were, these days I have learnt to appreciate what I have and not be so quick to jump on to the next model.

 

Quite right. It is perfectly possible to get things "right" the first time.

We have had our current cars for 12 years for the Datsun and 17 years for the Sierra and have had our boat for 9 years. 

The boat we perhaps fell lucky with. We were on our way to buy a brand new river cruise which we had spent 12 months researching. We knew exactly what spec we wanted. On the way we popped into a used boat show and ended up buying a sea boat we knew nothing about for pretty much double the budget! 

She does however suit us down to the ground for our current useage.

[rusty69]

Any boat you get lots of useage and enjoyment from is the right boat. There must be thousands of boats all over the country  that are the right spec, but never get used. 

[Calranthe]

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Quite right. It is perfectly possible to get things "right" the first time.

We have had our current cars for 12 years for the Datsun and 17 years for the Sierra and have had our boat for 9 years. 

The boat we perhaps fell lucky with. We were on our way to buy a brand new river cruise which we had spent 12 months researching. We knew exactly what spec we wanted. On the way we popped into a used boat show and ended up buying a sea boat we knew nothing about for pretty much double the budget! h

She does however suit us down to the ground for our current useage.

I agree, it is advice we see a lot on this forum, what you plan for, what you think will be your perfect boat you may be locking yourself out of finding something that will really surprise you, the right product will usually find you, does not mean you do not spend the time to research knowledge the right kind of information really helps.

Even thought Kathleen is being worked on atm and I wish she was up at Aston right now, I know buying her was the right choice, that boat just feels right and comfortable even with my slowly receding fear of water lol.

[WotEver]

"Go out and look at loads of boats" is the advice offered so many times on here, "The right boat will find you". 

That doesn't stop some members from trying to do it from their armchair though. 

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

"Go out and look at loads of boats" is the advice offered so many times on here, "The right boat will find you". 

That doesn't stop some members from trying to do it from their armchair though. 

So true. Our initial searches were on t'internet,  and upon seeing what had looked to be a great boat on the computer,  it turned out to be a smelly, damp wreck. It is absolutely impossible to get a feel of how much (or little) space there is from a picture. 

I estimate that only about 25% of boats advertised looked as good in the advert as they did in the flesh.

[WotEver]

25 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I estimate that only about 25% of boats advertised looked as good in the advert as they did in the flesh.

Or even the other way round

[cuthound]

8 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Or even the other way round

Absolutely,  and I can't even blame the spill chucker 

[Calranthe]

On the other hand a forum like this can give you some great ammunition for when you go look at boats, getting people here to pick apart a boat you are thinking of helps a lot so much real knowledge from so many different peoples experiences.