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Just starting to look......


Tawny75

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8 minutes ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

Tumblehome is the inward slope of the cabin sides - important if you care about aesthetics and/or walking down the gunwale.

Anyone fancy a wager that it's originally a Hancock & Lane hull with a 2009 cabin and fit out? The only way it's a 10/15mm is if it's been overplated. Many H&L hulls were 3/16" (4.8mm) hullsides, so if overplated up to the top strake (which would explain the missing guard iron on the bow) with 5mm, that would add up to 10mm hullsides, ditto for an 8mm baseplate and about 0 for accuracy in the broker's description :)

It doesn't look like a Hancock and Lane at all

Unlikely that the broker would put their reputation on the line by advertising an old boat as a new

Similarly, they wouldn't advertise a boat as being 10mm if it was actually original 4.8 overplated with 5mm.  

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That depends entirely on how well it has been done.

A badly overplated boat costs more to put right than buying one that needs overplating and having it done properly.

Some people won't touch overplated regardless, but if it's done well and still in good condition then it's a viable way of extending the life of a boat by 20-30 years.

But: if I'm correct and it's a complete refit of an exiisting hull in 2009, then assuming the steelwork was done at the same time, why not cut out and let new steel in while the hull is bare? Answer, overplating is cheaper (or pre dates the refit) and it saves a few more quid not bothering to put the extra guards back on, which would make me want a very thorough survey if I wanted to be sure I wasn't buying a budget bodge job.

 

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26 minutes ago, Tawny75 said:

A bit of character would be nice but to be honest, we can add character to anything :)

I'm not sure you can. Make a boat look nice yes but that's not the same thing.

Will you be in the Northants area all weekend?

JP

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2 minutes ago, lulu fish said:

It doesn't look like a Hancock and Lane at all

Unlikely that the broker would put their reputation on the line by advertising an old boat as a new

Similarly, they wouldn't advertise a boat as being 10mm if it was actually original 4.8 overplated with 5mm.  

Look at the shape of the stem post, look at the t-stud, look at the style and position of the stern t-studs and the shape of rams head. Folded shear strake into gunwale changing into fabricated gunwale angle with a rubbing strake round the very semi-circular counter.

Granted the pics aren't great, and the modern cabin alters the appearance, but I've spent longer than I'd like looking at two of my H&L hulls this winter and I see an awful lot I recognise there.

The broker will go on what they are told quite often. Nothing to do with this broker but we were asked once when a boat was booked in for blacking to "re-do the silicone" as well. "What silicone?" I asked. "You know, the stuff round the overplating" said the new owner. I didn't, until we got it out of the water and found the new steel had only been tacked above the water line and "sealed" with silicone. Proof you've never, ever seen it all! £15k later the owner was much wiser.

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2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I'm not sure you can. Make a boat look nice yes but that's not the same thing.

Will you be in the Northants area all weekend?

JP

Northants is him indoors weekly territory, so we are there a lot.  We are aiming on going to Whilton Marina and may be another, I know there are a few brokerages near there.

 

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50 minutes ago, Tawny75 said:

Northants is him indoors weekly territory, so we are there a lot.  We are aiming on going to Whilton Marina and may be another, I know there are a few brokerages near there.

 

And if you get bored of looking at newish boats at Whilton this weekend you could always head a few miles west to Braunston to see a lot of old narrow boats (mine included).

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2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And if you get bored of looking at newish boats at Whilton this weekend you could always head a few miles west to Braunston to see a lot of old narrow boats (mine included).

I am hoping to on the Sunday.  I shall speak to him indoors, my historical heart heart will be going nineteen to the dozen!!

 

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5 hours ago, Athy said:

It does look a bit ungainly from the outside (odd-shaped cratch, no tumblehome) but then you don't live on the outside.

 

I'm not convinced that there's no tumblehome so wouldn't rule it out on that basis until I went to see it.

The same comment was made on the forum 2 years ago, based on the broker's photos, when I was about to go and see the boat I subsequently bought. It turned out to be down to camera angles as it looked perfectly normal when I went to see it.

Also some of the internal photos of Mike's Den do appear to suggest the sides are angled inwards. For example, one of the photos shows an angle between the blind on one of the windows and its cords (or whatever they're called).

 

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12 hours ago, Rob-M said:

Tumblehome is the angle of the cabin sides.

...and one of the most pleasing  words associated with inland waterways, though "gongoozler" runs it close.

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9 hours ago, MrBeethoven said:

I'm not convinced that there's no tumblehome so wouldn't rule it out on that basis until I went to see it.

The same comment was made on the forum 2 years ago, based on the broker's photos, when I was about to go and see the boat I subsequently bought. It turned out to be down to camera angles as it looked perfectly normal when I went to see it.

Also some of the internal photos of Mike's Den do appear to suggest the sides are angled inwards. For example, one of the photos shows an angle between the blind on one of the windows and its cords (or whatever they're called).

 

Yes, you are right - for "no tumblehome" read "not much tumblehome". Your post correctly emphasises the importance of seeing a boat "in the flesh" before making up one's mind about it.

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57 minutes ago, philjw said:

Maybe the age and the fact that it has been fully overplated?

It also has a Lister air-cooled engine; these are reliable and make a pleasant noise, but probably won't heat your domestic water as a water-cooled engine would.

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  • Tarted up inside in modern style but no effort taken on the outside. Massive dent on starboard bow area - difficult to straighten out, would affect future sale.
  • Lots of interesting - i.e. different and usable, for example long front deck.
  • Dear old noisy Lister but clean engine bay, but charging batteries WILL be a problem if modern necessities are envisaged.
  • Stove at the rear is not a good idea.
  • What does full overplating mean here - I can't see any evidence of that, but I don't know what to look for. I'd expect to see a lump around the rubbing strakes.  If it was done in 2012 why is it so battered and rusty now?
Edited by OldGoat
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May I ask more questions?

Why is a stove at the rear not a good idea?

Why does a Lister not heat the water?  Would that apply to all Listers or just the air cooled ones?  

Apart from the Kingfisher engines mentioned further up the thread, are there any things we should totally not touch with the proverbial barge pole?

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7 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

You want the stove ideally in the centre of the boat, better heat distribution, at one end you could struggle to get the other end warm/hot.

 

Air cooled engines dont use water, so they cant heat a tank ( i think)?

Duly noted about the stove.

This will explain why on the hire boat we had control on the wall to turn on the hot water, we were told never to run it when the engine wasn't running as it would drain the batteries.  That boat had an air cooled Lister and sounded amazing.  

Edited by Tawny75
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5 hours ago, Tawny75 said:

I am still searching the internet to get ideas and to understand things better.

I have found this one, this seems significantly lower priced than others I have seen, can anyone let me know why?

http://www.tingdeneboatsales.net/boat-spec?BoatID=6270946

Looks like an ok boat to me. If your not going to live on  it, the stove issue probably isn't so much of a problem on a shorter boat. You could end up ruling  a lot out if you only look for a stove fitted in the middle.

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10 minutes ago, Tawny75 said:

This will explain why on the hire boat we had control on the wall to turn on the hot water, we were told never to run it when the engine wasn't running as it would drain the batteries.  That boat had an air cooled Lister and sounded amazing.  

The hireboat - I suspect - had 'Ebersplutter' type heating which does take some battery power (not al lot, but enough to flatten the battery if the alternator is not very powerful.)

If your hire boat had the amazing Lister, then that confirms my worries about this one. Others may confirm this -

  • Air cooled Listers run slower than most water cooled engines.
  • The power take-off for the alternator is taken from a shaft that runs at half the engine speed
  • I looked at the engine picture and the pulley and it looked small

So I think that you have very poor power generating capacity to run more than a few lights and a TV (that's probably why there's a gas fridge....). That's fine if you want a camping style of boating - and there's no dishonour in that!

There is no other form of heating, so if you like warmth, you'll have to live in the back.

 

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I am sad enough to have rung the hire company to ask what the engine was and it is a Lister TS2, now if I can get a boat that sounds like that one did I will be a happy girl.

By the way, I know that is a very sad comment, my mechanical knowledge consists of 'suck, squeeze, bang, blow'  I just liked the sound of it.

I am going to go and hide my head in a bucket now.

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13 minutes ago, Tawny75 said:

I am sad enough to have rung the hire company to ask what the engine was and it is a Lister TS2, now if I can get a boat that sounds like that one did I will be a happy girl.

By the way, I know that is a very sad comment, my mechanical knowledge consists of 'suck, squeeze, bang, blow'  I just liked the sound of it.

I am going to go and hide my head in a bucket now.

Just get a recording of it, then playback louder than the engine you get. Sorted :)

  • Greenie 2
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