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Use of land beyond towpath opposite boat


Bradley332

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Hello to all canal boat owners out there!

I was hoping that somebody would be able to clarify something.

Are permanently (residential) moored boats (moored on towpath side) allowed to fence off areas of land beyond the towpath opposite their boats and use this area for storage of various items?

Hoping that somebody can clarify.

Bye for now!

S

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Not unless you have purchased the land and hold the 'deeds'.

If its not yours you cannot just 'squat' on it.

 

Edit to add :

Unless you are on the K&A when 'all bets are off', and what you propose seems to be the norm.

 

Have you ever cruised the K&A?

If you have, I bet it was in the dim distant past. I'f you've cruised recently and seen fenced off public towpath areas I'd be interested to hear where it was. I've done the whole length of the K&A and by and large CRT seem to have stamped out all that sort of thing.

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I must be imagining things - all these 'Baton-Twirling Association' You-Tube videos - that is the K&A isn't it ?

If I've got it wrong then I stand corrected.

 

Ok so you are basing your comments on some several-year-old you tube videos?

I'm not saying these towpath grabs don't exist, I'm saying I didn't notice any so I'm asking you where they are!

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Have you ever cruised the K&A?

If you have, I bet it was in the dim distant past. I'f you've cruised recently and seen fenced off public towpath areas I'd be interested to hear where it was. I've done the whole length of the K&A and by and large CRT seem to have stamped out all that sort of thing.

Have you done the section between Trowbridge and Bath Mike? If you have then you cannot have missed the flagrant use of land beyond the towpath for storage by the owners of boats that rarely move, I was down there only last week and nothing much seems to have changed in twenty years, I even recognised many of the boats.

Edited by David Schweizer
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4 hours ago, Bradley332 said:

Hello to all canal boat owners out there!

I was hoping that somebody would be able to clarify something.

Are permanently (residential) moored boats (moored on towpath side) allowed to fence off areas of land beyond the towpath opposite their boats and use this area for storage of various items?

Hoping that somebody can clarify.

Bye for now!

S

I suggest you ask the relevant authority for the waterway where you have seen this happening.

Different agreements are in place for the same authority, never mind different authorities.

As a question back, why do you ask, has it spoilt your day, ruined your two week holiday or made a mess of BBQ arrangements for the in laws and you are feeling the need to stir a bit.

Oh, welcome to the forum by the way.

 

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4 hours ago, Bradley332 said:

Hello to all canal boat owners out there!

I was hoping that somebody would be able to clarify something.

Are permanently (residential) moored boats (moored on towpath side) allowed to fence off areas of land beyond the towpath opposite their boats and use this area for storage of various items?

Hoping that somebody can clarify.

Bye for now!

S

Is it your land? If so, and you have not given them permission, then no. Otherwise, that depends on who owns the land and if they have allowed it. This seems obvious to me, so perhaps I have missed some vital information from the op? 

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Well, the answer is no. All you are entitled to is to bang in a couple of pins. But, if you are lucky and the land is really overgrown you might just manage to hide a small garden deep in the brambles. Thing is though once people start to use bits of land it tends to spread and that brings all sorts of trouble.

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There are a couple of spots on the K&A where local boaters have tidied up a bit of otherwise unused land behind the trees, planted a few flowers and installed a few logs to sit on. They sometimes have little parties and drink a bit of beer together etc etc. Its pretty discrete so unless you were looking out for this, or happened upon a party, you would likely not notice it. Not really a big deal. 

Elsewhere on the system a few boaters on long term towpath moorings have made a little garden or installed a storage cupboard. I expect its against the rules but again is no big deal. Some of the little gardens are rather nice.

At Kintbury on the K&A local volunteers have made quite a pleasing garden with raised beds and leave out a watercan so that passers-by can water it. I suspect CaRT helped to fund it.

In quite a few places there are now small tent villages in the woods just beside the towpath, a sign of the times. There's even a little one on the Woverhampton 21.

................Dave

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But Bradley332  is either jealous, pi££ed off or just trolling with their first post on this eminent site asking the members to clarify such information regarding an unnamed site on an unnamed waterway managed by an unnamed waterway authority.

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Strange how perceptions of the same post can differ.

I read the OP as asking if, as a mooring holder, she could utilise the land abutting up to the towpath - it appears that others reading took her post to be a 'moan' at people who had already claimed the land.

Same here

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On 15/06/2017 at 21:42, Alan de Enfield said:

Strange how perceptions of the same post can differ.

I read the OP as asking if, as a mooring holder, she could utilise the land abutting up to the towpath - it appears that others reading took her post to be a 'moan' at people who had already claimed the land.

 

I rather took it that way too.

If that is the spirit in which the question was asked, then the answer is legally no they are not permitted (generally, with exceptions) but if she wishes to make a nice garden area next to her mooring out of unmaintained scrubland no-one is likely to complain or make an issue of it, unless she somehow makes a pain in the arse of herself doing it.

But to actually fence off areas specifically as asked, I'd say that would count as making a PITA of oneself. Adverse possession, the lawyers would call it. 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Strange how perceptions of the same post can differ.

I read the OP as asking if, as a mooring holder, she could utilise the land abutting up to the towpath - it appears that others reading took her post to be a 'moan' at people who had already claimed the land.

I am afraid I assumed it was either somebody who didn't know/understand about mooring and was assuming you could just "live" anywhere or they knew of a case where long term moorers were doing this and hoped to be able to do it themselves.

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I saw it from the same point of view as Matty has... Otherwise, why wouldn't you just ask the other boaters? Like most of us do if we spot a nice long term or private mooring and want to know how to come by it.

Edited by Starcoaster
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Thanks for all of your replies so far.

To be clear, my interest is from a "walkers" perspective and non boat owner to be clear (however I am considering the possibility and have been looking at boats). Apologies for lack of clarity.

I walk a particular stretch of canal frequently and have become increasingly aware of a number of areas that have been fenced off that are being used exclusively by the adjacent permanently moored canal boats for what looks like storage, seating, growing things, rubbish, etc.

Is there the potential for "adverse possession" and why does the CRT permit this to happen? I read somewhere where a piece of land had been fenced off and they have since been told to remove it.

I am just looking for clarity. Can anybody with a permanent mooring simply fence off land and have exclusive access without being told not to by the CRT?

The stretch of canal in question also falls with a conservation area, which may be worth mentioning.

Apart from the fact that it does look a mess to be honest.

Any clarity appreciated.

Thanks

Sarah

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4 hours ago, Bradley332 said:

Thanks for all of your replies so far.

To be clear, my interest is from a "walkers" perspective and non boat owner to be clear (however I am considering the possibility and have been looking at boats). Apologies for lack of clarity.

I walk a particular stretch of canal frequently and have become increasingly aware of a number of areas that have been fenced off that are being used exclusively by the adjacent permanently moored canal boats for what looks like storage, seating, growing things, rubbish, etc.

Is there the potential for "adverse possession" and why does the CRT permit this to happen? I read somewhere where a piece of land had been fenced off and they have since been told to remove it.

I am just looking for clarity. Can anybody with a permanent mooring simply fence off land and have exclusive access without being told not to by the CRT?

The stretch of canal in question also falls with a conservation area, which may be worth mentioning.

Apart from the fact that it does look a mess to be honest.

Any clarity appreciated.

Thanks

Sarah

I suggest that you contact CaRT to get clarity on this.  There are plenty of legitimate end of garden/towpath moorings.

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Sarah, 

the answer to your question appears to be 'yes', judging by your observations out walking. As already mentioned, anyone can fence off a piece of land and look after it as if it was their own, in the absense of any objection from the landowner. If the landowner fails to notice and no objection is forthcoming in 12 years (loosely speaking) then ownership is acquired. 

Who does this land belong to? You seem to think it is CRT's but that is not necessarily the case. 

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37 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Sarah, 

the answer to your question appears to be 'yes', judging by your observations out walking. As already mentioned, anyone can fence off a piece of land and look after it as if it was their own, in the absense of any objection from the landowner. If the landowner fails to notice and no objection is forthcoming in 12 years (loosely speaking) then ownership is acquired. 

Who does this land belong to? You seem to think it is CRT's but that is not necessarily the case. 

Since the change in Land Registry rules (virtually all land is now on the register) squatters rights are now more difficult to acquire. I had a devil of a job to claim my rights some years ago (that was a matter of hedge and ditch rules). Something in my mind says it's now 25 years?

Regardless, isn't there something about a CaRT ransom strip?

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