Jump to content

Ropes? What type from where. plus anchor and chain.


DeanS

Featured Posts

Hi all.

 

Recommendations on buying new ropes.....what type, and good online suppliers? I'm travelling onto the Manchester ship canal (the Upper bit at Salford Quays). I'm not sure..but I think I need longer ropes for that.  

Also, need to get an anchor and chain...so recommendations would be appreciated :)

 

Thank you.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, DeanS said:

Also, need to get an anchor and chain...so recommendations would be appreciated :)

Boat size & weight will affect anchor choice.

Anchor 'type' (design) will affect anchor choice - because of problems dragging my 20kg anchor I have just purchased a 30kg 3rd generation anchor at a cost of £600.

 

Cheap, lightweight, non-performing anchors abound.

Most NB owners choose a very poor-performing anchor called a 'Danforth', based on the criteria that it stows flat and is not expensive. - If I remember correctly you have a 'fat boat' - so if going for a Danforth type go for a 30kg and pray you don't need to use it.

Danforth is a 'do-it-all' (but non oif it well) anchor.

Alternatively go for a 20kg 'Plough' anchor. (Mantus, Manson, etc)

Or

A 'fall-back' of a 25kg Bruce or CQR.

 

Chain should be a minimum of 3x water depth + the height of the boat above the water, Ideal length is 5 times.

I recently had 10x depth out in a strong wind and was dragging - hence the new anchor.

 

 

anchor type holding.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Boat size & weight will affect anchor choice.

Anchor 'type' (design) will affect anchor choice - because of problems dragging my 20kg anchor I have just purchased a 30kg 3rd generation anchor at a cost of £600.

 

Cheap, lightweight, non-performing anchors abound.

Most NB owners choose a very poor-performing anchor called a 'Danforth', based on the criteria that it stows flat and is not expensive. - If I remember correctly you have a 'fat boat' - so if going for a Danforth type go for a 30kg and pray you don't need to use it.

Danforth is a 'do-it-all' (but non oif it well) anchor.

Alternatively go for a 20kg 'Plough' anchor. (Mantus, Manson, etc)

Or

A 'fall-back' of a 25kg Bruce or CQR.

 

Chain should be a minimum of 3x water depth + the height of the boat above the water, Ideal length is 5 times.

I recently had 10x depth out in a strong wind and was dragging - hence the new anchor.

 

 

anchor type holding.jpg

Is there much current on the MSC ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is there much current on the MSC ?

Probably not  but no doubt a fair bit of wind.

If you don't like the replies then don't read them.

He asked for anchor recommendations - I gave him several options.

He can choose any of the options - or none at all, but I would suggest that it is a waste of money to buy one for 'a canal with no current' and then (potentially) go on a River with current and be "disappointed" if it didn't work.

 

It is very easy for an anchor to give a false sense of security.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Probably not  but no doubt a fair bit of wind.

If you don't like the replies then don't read them.

He asked for anchor recommendations - I gave him several options.

He can choose any of the options - or none at all, but I would suggest that it is a waste of money to buy one for 'a canal with no current' and then (potentially) go on a River with current and be "disappointed" if it didn't work.

 

It is very easy for an anchor to give a false sense of security.

It is probably a requirement of the MSC that he carries one, is the reason he asked. Hence my comment about current. If he is only doing it to fulfil their requirements as opposed to doing tidal or flowing waters the required performance of that anchor is not the same. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

anchor type holding.jpg

It looks like the most rubbish anchor is the cqr on that table.:detective:

The RNLI's D class and B class lifeboats are fitted with CQR anchors. They can drag initially if not set right but if they bite once they won't let go! It would certainly be the first I would try..

As an aside, how much chain would one use on their anchor Line?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Dingle said:

It looks like the most rubbish anchor is the cqr on that table.:detective:

The RNLI's D class and B class lifeboats are fitted with CQR anchors. They can drag initially if not set right but if they bite once they won't let go! It would certainly be the first I would try..

As an aside, how much chain would one use on their anchor Line?

You don't get 'many tries' as you are heading over the weir (OK - not on the MSC) so you need an anchor that sets 1st time, every time. I have used CQRs and they can often drag for 100s of yards before setting - not ideal as you approach a danger.

The main benefit of the CQR is its robustness - using an anchor from a moving, out-of-control NB (or fat-boat) is a very different thing to a nice 'anchor up' for a spot of tiffin when its all planned and managed nicely.

 

'Chucking the anchor out' and as it bites the maximum load is applied laterally as the boat is spun around - the CQR is extremely strong under lateral loads.

(The Mantus anchor actually has a lifetime guarantee against bending or breaking which is probably why it is one of the most expensive.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apparently the Upper reach of the Salford Quays area is a river, which is locked upstream...so no flow to it.

The docs say,...."a suitable anchor and line.....for a depth of up to 8m"

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

very different thing to a nice 'anchor up' for a spot of tiffin when its all planned and managed nicely.

My point exactly.

Having used this anchor to veer into cliffs in large swells and onto beaches in breaking surf and it lot let go and dash the boat and crew to a thousand peices it would be the first type of anchor I tried. Of course if it were rubbish I'd be back to the interweb to try a different one.

But again, setting the anchor comes under boat handling and is a skill that needs to be practiced and honed away from danger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

But again, setting the anchor comes under boat handling and is a skill that needs to be practiced and honed away from danger.

Agreed - but try telling that to most Inland waterways boaters, the 1st time they try will be the time it needs to work.

"We don't need no stinkin ankors"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Agreed - but try telling that to most Inland waterways boaters, the 1st time they try will be the time it needs to work.

"We don't need no stinkin ankors"

Sadly, that is true, but the dilemma is that it is a strong possibility that a recommendation to use a 30 kg anchor plus chain  in an emergency situation for someone not familiar with the use of an anchor is another accident  waiting to happen, with lost fingers or limbs a possibility. 

Howard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can only agree with what others are saying about the anchor. Get the right one first time. It won't be cheap but then again neither is your boat or in your case your home. So why risk an undersized anchor.

As for ropes we prefer Marlow braided ropes as they are nice and easy to handle.

Can't help with the lengths required I'm afraid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is there much current on the MSC ?

There can be on the upper reaches and River Irwell section in times of heavy rainfall. The computer controlled sluices at Mode Wheel and other locks can open suddenly and create a very strong current . A lot of years ago, boating on the River we suffered an engine failure, the river was in flood so I deployed the anchor which managed to stop us colliding with George Stephenson's L & M Railway bridge  until  I got the engine going again. The sluices ran two feet of water off this level inside an hour. Definitely go for an anchor that's going to work. Having said that , you are probably ok if you stick to the Salford Quays area.

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, billh said:

There can be on the upper reaches and River Irwell section in times of heavy rainfall. The computer controlled sluices at Mode Wheel and other locks can open suddenly and create a very strong current . A lot of years ago, boating on the River we suffered an engine failure, the river was in flood so I deployed the anchor which managed to stop us colliding with George Stephenson's L & M Railway bridge  until  I got the engine going again. The sluices ran two feet of water off this level inside an hour. Definitely go for an anchor that's going to work. Having said that , you are probably ok if you stick to the Salford Quays area.

Bill

Ta I didn't know that, is that where the OP is going?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 15/06/2017 at 16:10, Alan de Enfield said:

You don't get 'many tries' as you are heading over the weir (OK - not on the MSC) so you need an anchor that sets 1st time, every time. I have used CQRs and they can often drag for 100s of yards before setting - not ideal as you approach a danger.

The main benefit of the CQR is its robustness - using an anchor from a moving, out-of-control NB (or fat-boat) is a very different thing to a nice 'anchor up' for a spot of tiffin when its all planned and managed nicely.

 

'Chucking the anchor out' and as it bites the maximum load is applied laterally as the boat is spun around - the CQR is extremely strong under lateral loads.

(The Mantus anchor actually has a lifetime guarantee against bending or breaking which is probably why it is one of the most expensive.)

I am with Alan. My experience is with offshore plastic boats where very few will rely on a Danforth as the main anchor although many will have one on board 'in reserve' ( or to act as a kedge). Their only good point is that they can be stored easily. CQR's get a really bad press and most newer boats will have switched to Deltas or the newer plough anchors. Rocna's were the 'in' choice 5 years ago. I would be happy with a Delta or a plough which should  set properly first time but deploying a 25/30Kg one would not be easy. I could see a Danforth working on the cut - if it was ever needed but I wouldnt trust one on a fast moving river.

Anchors work by being pulled into the river bed, hence important to use enough chain to lie near the bottom and have a 'horizonatl pull'. Typically as stated above that means at least 3 times the depth ..but then how deep is the river? Splice on a further 50 m of rope (we always used Octaplait). You could reduce the amount of chain by tying a significant weight (ie 2kg) to the chain 5-10m from the anchor which then helps keep the chain/rope down.

Not thought about an anchor for our boat yet. I think we will stay clear of rivers for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Their only good point is that they can be stored easily

There are 'lay-flat' alternatives -

The 'Brittany' which is a fair bit better than the Danforth

The 'Fortress' which is 100x better than the Danforth. An Aluminium 10kg Fortress will way outperform a 30kg Danforth

 

Problem is that the Ditch-Users rarely see the need for an anchor and spending £100 on a Danforth is much better than spending £600+ on a Fortress - after all "I'm never going to use it so its a waste of money".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.