Alternator servicing ?

[Top cat]

My Izusu engine  has about 4500 hrs on it and I'm wondering if  I should be doing any preventative maintenance on the alternators and travel power ? Like checking the brushes etc.

The start alternator is an HMI 900021-ALS rated at 70A

The domestic is a Lucas A517 rated at 110A

The travel power is a Dometic 400 rated at 3Kw with a silver control box.

The units appear to be functioning correctly apart from intermittent flashing of a neon on the travel power at low revs but fiddling with the connector fixes it.

Is this a case " If it aint broke don't  fix it"  or am I wise to pre empt a breakdown.

If I should be changing brushes etc anyone know where to get them and point me to instructions

Thanks

T C

[dmr]

It can be worth cleaning out the alternators every year or two, mine get full of fluff which blocks the airflow but then we do have a proper engine room and a dog so all the boat dust ends up in the alternators.

Worth looking at the brushes and slip rings every year.

The Travelpower really should have a full rebuild every few thousand hours, including new bearings. Its an expensive and not readily available item and runs with a high belt tension. On the black box version a failure of the brushes can damage the electronics, not sure about the newer versions. Bearing failures can be very expensive to fix whilst routine bearing replacement is not too expensive. If you can get your boat near to Cox's I believe they will visit the boat, remove the Travelpower, do an overhaul and then refit it.

...........Dave

[Boredrider]

Ed Shiers will sort both alternator and TravelPower http://www.fc-marine.co.uk/Welcome.html

I can highly recommend him if you are in the Midlands.

Mike

[Sir Nibble]

Leave them alone. alternator brush wear comes in two forms,  one means a couple of quid and change them, and the other has the slip ring demolished which needs considerable surgery. Why rush to meet it? How about the starter brushes? Solenoid contacts? come to think of it what are your valve seats like?

[Top cat]

3 hours ago, Boredrider said:

Ed Shiers will sort both alternator and TravelPower http://www.fc-marine.co.uk/Welcome.html

I can highly recommend him if you are in the Midlands.

Mike

Thanks Mike have contacted him

 

T C

[dmr]

56 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Leave them alone. alternator brush wear comes in two forms,  one means a couple of quid and change them, and the other has the slip ring demolished which needs considerable surgery. Why rush to meet it? How about the starter brushes? Solenoid contacts? come to think of it what are your valve seats like?

Not sure I agree with you here, which is rare as what you say is usually 100% good senses.

Cox's say that a Travelpower brush failure can destroy a transistor in the black box, dunno if this is true, my black box did need a repair but had a bearing failure giving rotor-stator contact which is more serious. 

Previously had a brush failure on Travelpower and easily fixed with new brushes, no problem, but failures always occur at least convenient moment so I reckon routine brush inspection is good.

"Starter" alternator failed due to brush wear, brush and spring came out and put big score on slip ring, inspection would have saved this, but Delco-Remy unit so not totally trivial to inspect brushes.

Previous domestic alternator (Prestolite) failed due to brushes (and again easily fixed) but did happen at less than ideal moment. Current domestic alternator (Iskra) making bad noises, brushes worn and slip rings worn beyond repair, will replace with new alternator, have one in stock because inspection revealed failure was imminent. Only got 2000 hours from it.

Not had any starter motor issues yet. Compressions good so valves and seats probably ok. Costs £200 to look at valves, costs nothing to look at alternator brushes. On a high hours liveaboard boat alternators are semi-consumable but worth looking after.

............Dave

[MtB]

On 05/06/2017 at 21:47, Sir Nibble said:

Leave them alone. alternator brush wear comes in two forms,  one means a couple of quid and change them, and the other has the slip ring demolished which needs considerable surgery. Why rush to meet it? How about the starter brushes? Solenoid contacts? come to think of it what are your valve seats like?

 

That's a bit of a personal question I reckon...

[Top cat]

I've  had a look at the brushes on the domestic 12v alternator and the Travel power, both seem to be Ok. Here's a  picture of the travel power brushes ( since cleaned up)

So unless I'm  missing something  4500 hrs seems to be well within the expected life .

 

T C 

[Tony Brooks]

I tend to go with Sir N on this topic as far as the ordinary 12V alternators are concerned. It takes a knack to get the brushes and brush holder/regulator out of many common  alternators without snapping a brush so fine if you can do it but probably best left if not.

Then there is the question of how easy it is to lose the anti-rattle/judder blade form the centre brush on an ACR. If you do it will work but also spend the next few months drilling a hole through the slip ring.

Then there is the question of slip ring wear. Modern slip rings tend to be very thin so by the time a brush has worn out the slip rings are often not so far behind and it is often difficult to get a good look at the slip rings with the alternator in position.

In the case of the Travelpower then if what DMR says is true not only is there a design fault but there is every reason to carry out routine checks BUT I am not sure the average boater is up to alternator bearing changing.

[dmr]

53 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I tend to go with Sir N on this topic as far as the ordinary 12V alternators are concerned. It takes a knack to get the brushes and brush holder/regulator out of many common  alternators without snapping a brush so fine if you can do it but probably best left if not.

Then there is the question of how easy it is to lose the anti-rattle/judder blade form the centre brush on an ACR. If you do it will work but also spend the next few months drilling a hole through the slip ring.

Then there is the question of slip ring wear. Modern slip rings tend to be very thin so by the time a brush has worn out the slip rings are often not so far behind and it is often difficult to get a good look at the slip rings with the alternator in position.

In the case of the Travelpower then if what DMR says is true not only is there a design fault but there is every reason to carry out routine checks BUT I am not sure the average boater is up to alternator bearing changing.

I am only passing on wot Cox's said to me, and they do have a vested interest in TravelPowers needing routine servicing. I certainly agree that if intermittent brush contact causes transistor failure then there is a design oversight. The black box version uses a old Bosch alternator frame so with the tight polyV belt of the TravelPower the bearing load is likely rather more than Bosch ever intended. I believe its the rear bearing that fails in this and most alternators. I also agree that a press is really required to replace alternator bearings. My method is to strip the alternator and buy the bearings myself then go and find a man with a press.

The Iskra sliprings (well one of them) is in a right mess after about 2000 hours, the Delco Remy slip rings are sill fine after 7000 hours. The Iskra has a rubber seal protecting the slip rings, not sure if this is telling us something. Travel Power sliprings also still good after what I believe to be 16,000 hours, but not sure of this.

Cant decide if its worth trying to overhaul the 100amp Iskra or not.

..........Dave

 

 

[Top cat]

The alternator that supplies thedomestic batteries is marked CJF Rotating electrics. REP Lucas A517. 0012010006. Code C70801.

The (often wrong) documentation that came with the boat lists it as a110A alternator, however my local (very knowledgeable) car parts man tells me its identical to the 70A Lucas A127. This sort of makes sense as apart from labelling it looks identical to the start alternator that has 70A written on it and  is described as such in the documentation. Also the most I've  ever seen it put out is about 70A.

So my question is. Is the A517 just a A127 in disguise? I've  attatched a photo of the label and the rear

 

T C